Words consistenly used wrong on the wiki

[Glowsquid]

Some words are consistently used wrong on the wiki. It's terrible.

This is more of a silly rant thread (hence the lack of tag), though I do invite you to correct any wrong usage of the terms listed below. Also, if you have any other examples of words that are constantly misused, post them and I'll add them on the list below.



Remix (in relation to music tracks): Perhaps the most misused term on the wiki, it should be replaced by "cover" for almost every usage. See here.

Prequel: A prequel is something that is chronologically set before another work in-universe, but is released after it. However, it's consistently used on the wiki to say "The game before this one". Yoshi's Island is a prequel to Super Mario Bros., but Super Mario Galaxy is not a "prequel" to Super Mario Galaxy 2. In most cases, it should be substituted with "predecessor".

Remake: The Remake page (and consequently, the usage of "remake" on the wiki) is a goddamn mess, listing every instances where a game is rereleased with some changes, without regard to how major said changes are or the time elapsed between the original game and the "remake". Defining what a remake is a bit messy since the only constants are "It feature major changes to the graphics, content or both" and "it's released way after the original", but it can be reasonably affirmed that the following things that are not remakes:

*Sprite-swapped games (ex: Panel de Pon-> Tetris Attack and Doki Doki Panic -> Super Mario Bros. 2). Sprite-swaps are usually released alongside or very soon after the base game and don't feature major change to the mechanics.

*Enhanced rereleases: Some games gets rereleased to take advantage of technology that wasn't available at the time of release. Calling the Game Boy Color version of Wario Land II a "remake" is ludicrous, as it features little change beyond being in colour and was released less than a year after the original version. Similarly, the New Play Control series on the Wii are hardly "remakes".

*Late Ports: Super Mario All-Stars Limited Edition may have been released more than 15 years after the original All-Stars, but it's simply a Rom+Emulator bundle printed on a disc, to the point it shows the SNES controller instead of any of the actual Wii controllers in its option menu. Calling it a "remake" is abusing the word.

Rule of thumb is, if it features most of the same assets and came out less than 5 years after the original version, it's not a remake.

 

[Walkazo]

Yeah, the remake stuff is definitely bad. It'd be useful if we could actually decide on solid definitions to use on the wiki and make a policy page as well as an article about it (plus entries in the Glossary). Maybe we could even going through and just say which games are what, and make a chart for people to refer to from then on.

Anyway, the definitions I've been informally using are essentially the same as yours, but there's a couple differences: I use "retool" instead of "Sprite-swap", and don't bother differentiating "late ports" (just "enhanced ports"). I also read that remakes are different on a technical level: since they come later and on a vastly improved system (usually), rather than just being the original game' codes messed around with, they're a brand new creation modelled after the original's looks and gameplay. But maybe I've been misled, who knows.

For the record, here's what I try to go by (when I'm paying enough attention to think about it - I must confess I throw "remake" about willy-nilly too, much of the time):

Remake = Essentially the same game, usually released long after the original, with major changes to graphics, plot and/or gameplay creating a new experience. So, since they have different characters and gameplay along with the graphical updates, Diddy Kong DS and SM64DS would be remakes. On technical level, it's actually more like a brand new game, with new coding and all that jazz, but which is built to look and work like the older game. Hence things like SMB2 aren't really "remakes": they're the same engine, just given a paint job.

Re-release = Same game, same platform, minimal changes: it plays like the original, with only superficial or otherwise inconsequential differences. Includes bundling games together, like SMW in SMAS+SMW. Another example is Mario's FUNdamentals being a re-release of Mario's Game Gallery, since aside from the name, to my knowledge, the game is exactly the same.

Port = Same game, new platform, may have some superficial changes as well as new controls to fit the new system, but you're still playing the same game. So the GBC version of WLII would be a port, as is the VC version. Can also include compilations, like SMAS (with SMASLE being a port of the original compilation of ports). Technically, some ports may be like remakes in that they're not the same game with tweaks, but a whole new block of coding, but unlike remakes, ports are a much closer mimic of the original, and usually have the same name, whereas remakes tend to differentiate themselves. The SMA series are ports: there are some differences, but you're still getting the same overall gaming experience as if you were playing the originals (this isn't counting SMA4's e-reader content, which is enhanced, bonus material; same deal with the extra SMB Deluxe content: the core SMB game in the GBC title is just a port).

Enhanced Port = Same game, new platform, new gameplay. Unlike a port, it's not trying to be the original game anymore: it's putting its own spin on things. It's very similar to a remake, but it's generally released in the same era as the original and is still a conversion, rather than being a new game from a later generation being modelled after the original (but like regular ports, there's grey areas with the technical stuff, so timing is more important). This is for things like Vs. Super Mario Bros., which is an arcade version of SMB that has some of the courses altered, moved around or even swapped for SMB:LL levels, yet which has the same plot and overall gameplay: you still feel like you're playing SMB. Super Mario Bros. Special is another example: it's SMB for computers, with different levels, new enemies, slightly different game physics, and slight graphical changes - but it's still SMB. The New Play Control games are enhanced ports too: the games are the same except gameplay, but the Wii motion controls are too different to call them basic ports (as opposed to assigning different moves to different buttons or whatever).

Enhanced Re-release = Same game, same platform, new gameplay and/or significant graphical changes. If you include the Famicom Disk System as still being part of the Famicom platform, this designation would be used for All Night Nippon Super Mario Bros (but if you want to differentiate the disk system accessory from the basic Famicom, it's another Enhanced Port): it's SMB:LL, but all the sprites are swapped and there's a couple little changes to gameplay.

Retool = Same game being passed of as a new game after being given a graphical overhaul, with or without minor gameplay differences as well. So SMB2 is a retool of Doki Doki Panic and Tetris Attack is a retool of Panel de Pon. Conversely, Mario's FUNdamentals isn't a retool because, as I mentioned earlier, it's not even trying to be a new game: the title's really all that changed, and that's not enough.

 

[Ray Trace]

I hate the terminology, "Sprite" for some of the images used in the galleries, especially if the so-called "sprites" are actually "3D Models". In fact, I've seen the "In-Game Models" section of New Super Mario Bros. Wii galleries listed as "Sprites"

We don't even have a licensing template for models yet, so we just lump all the models into Sprites. I don't think that's wise.

Sprite: A small bitmap image, often used in animated games but also sometimes used as a synonym for icon.

3D Model: A representation of something that uses three dimensions. Sorry for the less concise definition, I couldn't find a definition of a 3D Model on Dictionary.com

 

[Lakituthequick]

Lets say 3D-model: Array of triangles shaped like an object or character using X, Y and Z coördinates. May be textured.

 

[Ray Trace]

Thank you. I always have trouble with words.

 

[Glowsquid]

Words.

I was going to use Super Mario Advance and the GBA DKC ports as examples of things that are not remake, but then I saw several gaming sites do call them "remakes" and this article about how the later were coded from scratch. Didn't want to include something that could derail the thread.

I hate the terminology, "Sprite" for some of the images used in the galleries, especially if the so-called "sprites" are actually "3D Models"

Yeah, I noticed that... Might want to get someone tech-literate to succinctly explain the difference between pre-rendered CGI models converted into sprites (such as Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Story) and genuine 3D models, though.

 

[Ray Trace]

Yeah, I noticed that... Might want to get someone tech-literate to succinctly explain the difference between pre-rendered CGI models converted into sprites (such as Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Story) and genuine 3D models, though.

One difference I see is that pre-rendered sprites still uses frames to animate while 3D models use bones. Also, 3D models have textures, faces, polygons, vertices, and such while pre-rendered sprites don't.

 

[Pyro]

Agree on the misusage of sprite.

Quote:
[quote author=Talk:Lemmy Koopa]
somebody needs to upload sprites of lemmy of new super mario bros. wii User:GEX

You can't. New Super Mario Bros. Wii doesn't use sprites - it uses models. --Pyro
[/quote]

 

[Banon]

I'm currently working on a rewriting of the Remake article. It's in progress, so it's globally a mess. Link to my Work page.

I can rewrite the whole article on my own, but I need some help to find a proper name for the article. We can't name it "Remake" anymore.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Yeah, I noticed that... Might want to get someone tech-literate to succinctly explain the difference between pre-rendered CGI models converted into sprites (such as Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Story) and genuine 3D models, though.

One difference I see is that pre-rendered sprites still uses frames to animate while 3D models use bones. Also, 3D models have textures, faces, polygons, vertices, and such while pre-rendered sprites don't.

And if definitions aren't your thing, then you can usually tell the difference between a pre-rendered sprite and a true model.

This is a model:

This is a pre-rendered sprite:

And this would be another pre-rendered sprite.

 

[Ray Trace]

I really don't know if character mugshots are sprites. Typically, I think of sprites as animated pictures. Mugshots such as those on the character select screen usually aren't animated.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Sprite: A small bitmap image, often used in animated games but also sometimes used as a synonym for icon.

In computer graphics, a sprite (also known by other names; see Synonyms below) is a two-dimensional image or animation that is integrated into a larger scene.

As three-dimensional graphics became more prevalent, sprites came to include flat images seamlessly integrated into complicated three-dimensional scenes.

Mugshots are sprites by that definition.

 

[SKmaric]

With this whole discussion about sprites and models, in galleries I think it would help if all of the sections named "Sprites" should be changed to "Sprites/Renders" (unless the whole section doesn't contain any 3d models and just sprites). I think "Renders" is a more fitting name rather than 3d models as, well, they are renders made by the engine or modeling program used by Nintendo.

But anyway, which do you think is a better name? "Sprites/Renders" or "Sprites/3D Models"?

 

[Shoko]

I prefer to name the sections "Sprites and Models".

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

With this whole discussion about sprites and models, in galleries I think it would help if all of the sections named "Sprites" should be changed to "Sprites/Renders" (unless the whole section doesn't contain any 3d models and just sprites). I think "Renders" is a more fitting name rather than 3d models as, well, they are renders made by the engine or modeling program used by Nintendo.

But anyway, which do you think is a better name? "Sprites/Renders" or "Sprites/3D Models"?

I prefer "Models" over "Renders" because while all renders are models, not all models are renders. Also, it can be misleading once you apply sprites created from rendered models, as in Donkey Kong Country and that Mario Party 9 sprite I showed.

This image, for instance, is a simple model without any rendering.

Keep in mind that a lot of game art in the modern games since the N64 era are indeed pre-rendered 3D models.

 

[2257]

no, thats definitely still been rendered

a model becomes a render once its stored as pixel data instead of vertex data

 

[Walkazo]

I prefer to name the sections "Sprites and Models".

Per. Slashes look kinda sloppy, so they should be avoided as much as possible; also, simpler is better, and speaking from a non-graphics-expert-POV, I feel like "models" is less jargony than "renders".

 

[Shoko]

Slashes look kinda sloppy

I agree, and if we discourage "his/her"s then same thing really. So shall we change the relevant examples at Help:Gallery? And now, keeping the capitalization changes in mind, they should read "Sprites and models".

 

[Time Turner]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned "stub" yet. Seriously, the real meaning of that word should be placed somewhere on the front page or something, because I am tired of people constantly thinking that all short articles are stubs.

 

[Banon]

I really need a generic name for remakes, re-release, ports, enhanced ports, and enhanced re-releases. If anybody has an idea, thank you.

 

[Walkazo]

Maybe we could repurpose "reissue"...

Looking through the wikipedia page (mainly focusing on album reissuing), it seems to run the gambit from re-releases (special editions, etc.) and ports (i.e. vinyl to CD) and even remakes (if you include track mixing), with bonus tracks and other additions making certain reissues the music equivalent of enhanced ports/re-releases of video games. Technically, "reissue" is apparently appropriate for any published work, but it's mainly used for music, film and toys (afaik), whereas video games get all the specialized terms instead, it seems.

 

[Banon]

Wiktionnary tell me that it's something that has been issued again, so I think it's applicable for video games.

But I have another idea: why don't we name the page "Remake" or "Remake and ports" or something like this, pretty much like the Cancelled games page. In the article we would explain that there are in face many kinds of "remakes".

 

[Ray Trace]

Difference between a "remix and a "cover version"

If our job is to educate the Mario series to others, we can get started by managing some of the terminology here. One problem I have here is the constantly thrown around term of the word "remix". By definition, this is a remix:

remix

—vb
1. to change the balance and separation of (a recording), usually to emphasize the rhythm section

—n
2. a remixed version of a recording

and, according to Wikipedia:

A remix is a song that has been edited or completely recreated to sound different from the original version. For example, the pitch of the singers' voice or the tempo might be changed, it might be made shorter or longer, or it might have the voice duplicated to create a duet.

[snip]

Remixes should not be confused with edits, which usually involve shortening a final stereo master for marketing or broadcasting purposes. Another distinction should be made between a remix and a cover. A remix song recombines audio pieces from a recording to create an altered version of the song. A cover is a recording of a song that was previously recorded by someone else.

What many places (included is MarioWiki) are doing is using the word "remix" for any type of music that have different instrumentals, when actually the more appropriate term is a "cover version", which should not be confused for remix. This is a cover version by definition:

cover version
noun
a recording of a song by a singer, instrumentalist, or group other than the original performer or composer.
Also called cover.

This is exactly what the Super Mario Bros. theme you hear in many different games is. That Super Mario Bros. theme you hear in Toy Time Galaxy in Super Mario Galaxy? Definitely a cover. A good example of what is a cover version is basically any time the term "remix" is used in this wiki. And it's not exactly outdated: we still use the word "cover version" to describe music that has totally instrumentation and the like, but the same melody in other music. But for some reason, not here...

Here's a good example of what remixes do: you remember being first in Mario Kart 7, and you hear those added beats when you're first? That's a bit of what a remix is. A remix uses the original recording and basically adds other recordings to it such as adding different beats, modifying tempo, repeats, etc. A cover version is a completely different and newer recording of an older music.

The distinction between the two is a bit ambiguous, but if we're going to put information, we may as well start as using appropriate terminology to describe obvious stuff.

Any comments or suggestions?

 

[Glowsquid]

Re: Difference between a "remix and a "cover version"

This is definitely a problem and I've been guilty of using "remix" wrongly.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Good, another thing to take note of... this will take as much time as changing the stuff to lowercase.

This kind of reminds me of this whole "beta elements" issue, though.