Nerf/Buff

Lolcrawler

Lolcrawler

I choose you!
Who needs a Nerf/Juke
Nerf: Weaken
Buff: Power up

I think Olimar
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Meta knight is op already. With his fast movement and attacks, he does to much damage already.

Ike needs a Nerf
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Lolcrawler said:
Meta knight is op already. With his fast movement and attacks, he does to much damage already.

Ike needs a Nerf
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There is no way Ike needs a nerf, I think he's pretty balanced the way he is.

Yoshi probably could us a juke. And Jigglypuff too. Nerf Meta Knight and I think we're all good.
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Samus I agree with, but not so much captain falcon. Captain falcon, is fast and powerful at the same time!! Making his only disadvantage that hes a heavy character.
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Lolcrawler said:
Meta knight is op already. With his fast movement and attacks, he does to much damage already.
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which is exactly why he should be juked :3
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Isn't the correct term "Nerf/Buff"?
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

juke
1 [jook] verb, juked, juk·ing, noun Football.
verb (used with object)
1.
to make a move intended to deceive (an opponent).
noun
2.
a fake or feint, usually intended to deceive a defensive player.

This thread makes no sense
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Baby Luigi said:
juke
1 [jook] verb, juked, juk·ing, noun Football.
verb (used with object)
1.
to make a move intended to deceive (an opponent).
noun
2.
a fake or feint, usually intended to deceive a defensive player.

This thread makes no sense
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Unless "juke" in his local dialect has a similar meaning to "buff", which would be the generally accepted term?
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

The accepted term is buff. While "juke" might be correct in his dialect, or he might be trying to use a hip-sounding term, more people are familiar with "buff", so we should go with that.

Anyway, Meta Knight deserves an obvious nerf. Meanwhile, Mario should get a buff. His attacks need to do more knockback with a bigger sweetspot for this f-smash. He generally needs more reach as well, but his attacks in general need to have more knockback. is B-up should also be higher. As for being a super jumper in his universe, it should show in Super Smash Bros. games.

Also, this game needs a better engine than Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Brawl really punished aggressive play by blunting stale moves further than the last two games, increasing invincibility frames for dodging, greatly reducing hitstun, having tripping, and making it floatier.
 
Re: Nerf/Juke

Mario Party X said:
The accepted term is buff. While "juke" might be correct in his dialect, or he might be trying to use a hip-sounding term, more people are familiar with "buff", so we should go with that.
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I'll change it to Buff
 
Of course Link needs a buff. The reason for his nerf from Melee to Brawl is unnecessary, and it further proves how Brawl sucks at balancing characters. His B^, for instance, got severely nerfed in the transition from Melee to Brawl. In Melee, it had high knockback, making it a great edge guarder.

In fact, Link's attacks in general have become much weaker, such as his d-air, his u-air, and the removal of L-canceling really hurts his ability to perform his strong aerial attacks. His AAA combo is also removed for mysterious reasons, and that didn't help either. I believe that his arrows and hookshot are slightly better, but that's about it. Why can't the hookshot act like the one in Super Smash Bros., where it isn't dangling in the ground? The whole idea of having the hookshot dangle like that is pointless.

Link has no improvements, just more problems, especially with the mechanics downgrade.
 
Mario Party X said:
\Why can't the hookshot act like the one in Super Smash Bros., where it isn't dangling in the ground? The whole idea of having the hookshot dangle like that is pointless.
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I agree, it doesn't dangle in the ground in the original Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time, why does it do it now?
 
I thought Link's biggest problem in all 3 games was his terrible recovery. :p

Also, I think I'll give my thoughts on each character later on...
 
personally i think the only characters need buffing that i experimented with are captain falcon(seems slower in this game, probably due to mechanics, he doesnt seem to hit as hard as well. Personally i just want his ssb moveset back).

Mario(d-special is not very useful, the knockback isnt worth it and to top it off it does no damage, his tornado attack is now down air which isnt very good as a downward air attack. Mario also seems to have had his recovery distance reduced as well. To top it off mario seems to be considerably weaker, as his neutral air takes ages to knock off oponets compared to melee, his smash attacks have far less knock back as well).

Samus(almost all of her moves have little knockback at all, even her power beam fully charged has been greatly reduced, despite able to do 30% damage, also never liked her down air from melee due to sluggish speed).

Sonic( very few moves seem to have any decent knock back, only ones i can think of are side smash, down smash, and neutral air. Also all his specials besides up special, looks very similar and even act similar in ways, not a very thought out moveset even if he was added late).

Link i wont really mention as previous people have already said the reasons that i can agree with.
 
Oh my God, let me get started with something. There are some characters that are just plain out horrible, and it's very unfair. Some characters are too strong, so things definitely need a balance.

First off, let me start with Jigglypuff. Ohohoho, Jigglypuff needs a MAJOR buff. I have no idea what Sakurai was thinking about having a character that's: the lightest, the slowest on ground, weak/slow moves, weak shield (that can kill him/her), and then have their best attack (Rest) get nerfed drastically. Jigglypuff's only redeeming quality is the fact that he's a god in the air, but that's it. All of the negatives outway the positives. Honestly, Jiggs is a joke character in brawl. I say this as a Jigglypuff main too, it's the truth. Jigglypuff went from a glass cannon into a glass, and this glass is broken.

Give him more strength, a bit faster, buff the smashes and such to be a bit quicker (hey if they're going to be weak, AT LEAST make em fast), make Rest like Melee, bigger shield, make past attacks more useful like Sing (Make Jiggs being able to walk with it/or have the range be a lot bigger). You know things like that, even with all this, Jigglypuff will be cheap because the fact still remains that Jigglypuff is very light and will die very quick. But he does need some major boosts for me to even consider him to be truly accessible.



Next would be Samus. Pretty much what Zae said, the fact is she CAN'T kill. Most of her moves are weak, and she has not viable strong moves. I see they changed her up into her Metroid Other M design, so I'm hoping they'll update her to give her more power and reliable kill moves. They better keep the grapple beam and the down aerial though, those were like the only good part of her. :P



Make ZSS stronger and have better grab.

Fix Peach up a bit, she's kinda sloppy in brawl.

Don't nerf Mr. G&W! He's perfect with his smashes LOL

Meta Knight (who I'm sure is returning) better get nerfed. He's WAY too strong, and his moves are fast as lightning, and has priority over like everything. There's no doubting they made him way too strong. Definitely nerf him.

Snake needs to lose his cheap as heck Up Tilt (which is super ridiculous). I don't think Snake is returning anyway, but you know if he does, that and forward tilt. Something needs to be done about those.

Sonic needs to be stronger (and have more variety).

Mario and Link both need better recoveries, just throw them off (especially Link) suffer very badly.



And yeah that's all I can think of for now. Prolly will come up with more later.
 
I'll give my thoughts on each character, and what needs to be improved/nerfed... I'll split it up into multiple posts since this'll take a super long time lol

First off, let's look at the current tier list (no, I don't follow tiers whatsoever), and see why they are placed there. I will bold characters I think are well balanced. =P
^I also think Squirtle is well balanced too, but he can't be ranked individually since with Pokemon Trainer switches are forced, and then there's the stupid fatigue/stamina mechanic that punishes him (and Ivysaur and Charizard) the longer he stays out battling and the more attacks he does...
SS: Meta Knight
S: Ice Climbers
A+: Olimar, Diddy Kong
A-: Marth, Snake, Falco
B: Pikachu, Zero Suit Samus, Wario
C+: Lucario, King Dedede, Toon Link
C: Wolf, Fox, Mr. Game & Watch, Pit
C-: R.O.B., Peach
D: Kirby, Donkey Kong, Sonic, Ike, Sheilda, Sheik, Ness, Yoshi
E: Luigi, Pokémon Trainer, Lucas
F: Mario, Samus, Bowser, Captain Falcon, Link, Jigglypuff, Zelda, Ganondorf

Actually, before I go into any characters, let's talk about Brawl's physics.
Brawl is much more of a defensive game and more slow paced than the others. This is further compounded by the fact there's low shieldstun (the time spent being stunned after you block an attack with your shield), making most attacks unsafe once they hit a shield and the low hitstun makes reliable combos near impossible, and allows longer times to survive. The floaty physics also unfortunately allow chaingrabs and (wall) infinites.
Brawl basically punishes aggressive play, and there's also stale-move negation which weakens your moves after you hit with them constantly, which can make it even more difficult to KO at times.

Ok now to discuss the characters...

The most overcentralizing character of the game, and it's not hard to see why. He has such a safe game due to lightning quick attacks, low lag and good range; making it hard to counter if he attacks your shield. Most of Meta Knight's attacks have transcendent priority, which means attacks with this kind of priority mean attacks cannot cancel out each other and will always trade hits if necessary.

Usually, trading hits with Meta Knight is NOT a good idea since he usually sends you off-stage, and my god his off-stage game is broken. D-Smash and D-air make it hard for you recover due to the weird angles it sends you, and even if you do manage to recover against him off-stage, you'll most likely have taken a LOT of damage. He also has his U-air to juggle you to hell, and it hits on FRAME 2 and barely lags.

Edgeguarding Meta Knight is difficult as well since he has such a flexible and amazing recovery. He has 5 mid-air jumps, and on top of that he can glide. As I said earlier, most of his attacks have transcendent priority, so more often than not, you'll get the worse end of the trade.

Attacking Meta Knight while he's shielding is a BAD idea. Shuttle Loop (his Up-B) is his answer to anything you try to do. It has invinciblity frames too, and knocks you pretty far away. His aerials are also a good answer (mainly N-air) if you attack his shield. Really safe for him, unsafe for you.

Then there's the Tornado with its godlike priority, hits multiple times, pressures shields and a good approaching tool. It's like his get out of jail free card.

^Even though I just mentioned all those broken aspects, Meta Knight still obviously has his flaws (like poor air mobility and the fact he's the most common character in the game means people will know the match-up lol) and still needs SOME effort to play well, but his positives FAR outweigh the negatives. He's a truly broken character, and needs to get hit with the nerf hammer.

This unique duo of characters have a great grab game (despite having short ranged grabs) since they can 0 to death chaingrab you if you aren't careful. Even without it, they can rack up damage REALLY easily and can actually work well offensively (I guess you can call them glass cannons?). Their special attacks are amazing (Blizzard is a great wall and a great anti-approaching tool) and oddly their little ice blocks can negate even fully charged Charge Shots and Aura Spheres. They have a great juggle game with U-Tilt and U-Air, a unique technique in desyncing to help with approaches and can be confusing to play against since there's 2 of them. Because there are 2 of them, grabbing them when they're together is generally not a good idea since the other one will hit you out of it.

The 0 to death chaingrab is what makes ICs rather annoying though. While difficult to master, it's really powerful since a grab is practically death for you. You have to play so cautiously against an ICs who knows what they're doing since a grab will cost you a stock. However, if you just play as ICs expecting ONLY grabs as your options, you're going to get screwed if your opponent is good at avoiding grabs.

Edgeguarding for them can be risky since losing Nana or being desynced can mean death, but that doesn't mean they're useless in that term. Ice Blocks can be good for annoying and trying to take away your foe's jumps. Nana's F-Air can spike your opponent, which can be scary. B-Air is also a good option thanks to its good range and power.

However, shielding with ICs can be awkward due to Nana's 6 frame delay and poor traction, making it nowhere near as safe as Meta Knight's options. Constant projectiles can be trouble for ICs as well with Nana's 6-frame delay. They unfortunately do not have many defensive options.

ICs recovery... Both of them are necessary to recover, otherwise Popo's recovery is SERIOUSLY nerfed. Belay (Up-B) is good vertically, but it takes long to start-up and if you accidentally hit the opponent, the height lowers which can end up killing you. Squall Hammer is another good option, but again, hitting the opponent will lower your height and it's a lot easier to get hit out of.

ICs flaws are much worse than Meta Knight's though. ICs are terrible without Nana, and it's fairly easy to separate Nana from Popo. I personally think their game should NOT revolve around chain grabs, and that Popo should not be near useless alone.

Ok I'm too lazy to write anymore for now lol
 
Zae said:
Mario also seems to have had his recovery distance reduced as well.
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Actually, I'd say Mario's recovery is slightly better, especially with the ease of grabbing ledges compared to the abysmal recovery in Melee. The mechanics downgrade could contribute to it, but Mario's recovery covers more distance in Brawl than in Melee. Still, that's one of the few buffs he has. Also, this back air seem to have improved, with more reach.
 
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