About the schedule

[Turboo]

I know this has been brought up in the past, but no action has been taken about it (I don't think the previous threads agreed on anything, but they also weren't heavily sided one way or the other? Maybe more support for removing it, but). I don't expect this to automatically get the schedule removed if people vote in favor of doing so, but I'd like it if the MHG would consider it.

I don't think there's really a need for a schedule anymore, and I still stand by the view that it needlessly clogs things up. I don't see why removing the schedule would suddenly create a problem; the argument of "but I want to play every Mafia game, and if they're all going at once, it'll be hard to keep up" doesn't really seem that good. What people seem to be forgetting is that every Mafia game will, regardless of whether or not there's a schedule, take time to prepare roles and gather players and whatnot.

The schedule makes it harder for Mafia games to advance to a playable state, since people will sometimes change their minds about hosting in the 6-month or so lull between when their game gets added and when it's time to finally host it; this goes back to my point about it needlessly clogging things up, since having games that go into preparation hell just to be unceremoniously canceled just makes things slower and slower. There's also no real reason for games that are ready and have been ready for months to be unable to start just because the schedule is taking ages to advance.

I hope this covers everything; it's a bit late and I can't really think of anything else to address, so! Feel free to point out anything else in the thread, though, and I'll try to get to it!

I'm running the poll here for 14 days, which'll hopefully be enough time. If it isn't, you should probably point that out too so I can get to it.

 

[NSY]

NO

Why not: Because we have like 8 mafias going on at once and it will just be chaos, players will lose track of each one and there's a good chance that one of these games just gets picked as the one they to "focus" on and then the others just become inactive. What your trying to do is let hosts take time their time but they already do that, they have all that time to prepare while it's on schedule.

However 6 months shouldn't be the amount of time it has to wait for but I don't think there's we can do about that.

 

[Turboo]

I addressed this point already, though: people aren't going to start 8 mafias at once due to preparation time for each, and I doubt the situation would escalate to a point where people would be legitimately starting 8 mafias at once. Even if there was no schedule, people should have the common sense to not completely flood the board with mafias, and I've mentioned this several times by now, but the prep time/people wanting to delay for their own reasons on their own time/etc. would probably prevent it anyway. People probably shouldn't bite off more than they can chew when it comes to these kinds of things, but I guess that's a matter of choice more than anything.

 

[Mario4Ever]

players will lose track of each one and there's a good chance that one of these games just gets picked as the one they "focus" on and then the others just become inactive.

That happens already.

 

[Lakituthequick]

Without schedule things will get gaotic. Keep it.

 

[Uniju]

Without schedule things will get gaotic. Keep it.

Also: There's absolutely no reason why it would get chaotic. Forum games isn't chaotic without a schedule, neither is elimination- atleast not chaotic engouh that we feel the need to add a schedule to them. So why bother with one for mafia? Many unaddressed points against it have already been put forward.

 

[Lily x]

I was thinking about this the other day...
Recently, the mafia schedule has been a bit of a mess with people cancelling and 3 games ending at once...

It could actually work as people won't start all at once as some games take longer to prepare than others.

 

[Revin]

i honestly think that a non-schedule system could work well. the only concern would be people getting mixed up or complaining that they're in too many games, in which case they'd just have to be more careful and not sign up for every single game.

 

[Specific Neptune]

I'm in favour, if you don't want to be bombarded by mafia games then you really shouldn't sign up for all of them. If you're good at mafia, then you'll find a way to get around them, or drop out of a few of them. Frankly, I can't really see how hard it would be without the schedule. Just remember which role you have for which mafia, and you should be fine.

 

[Toad Eightyfive]

I disagree that the schedule needs to be completely abolished. It worked well for its run, and when/if Mafia increases in activity it will become vital to keep order again.

However, we could alter how the schedule is run, in order to clear up the issues described in the OP. Smaller, readier games by trusted hosts could get weighted to start sooner. While enormous, slow games with a larger likelihood for cancellation have to wait longer.

 

[Revin]

I disagree that the schedule needs to be completely abolished. It worked well for its run, and when/if Mafia increases in activity it will become vital to keep order again.

but you don't need a schedule to keep order.

Smaller, readier games by trusted hosts could get weighted to start sooner. While enormous, slow games with a larger likelihood for cancellation have to wait longer.

yeah idk whether that would work very well. people might not like that other people get to host games whenever they want while they're stuck on the schedule.

another thing to consider is that putting games on the schedule can increase the likelihood of cancellation. when i started signups for muppet mafia, i was full of motivation, but by the time the long wait on the schedule was over, i had basically lost interest and had to cancel

 

[Lakituthequick]

another thing to consider is that putting games on the schedule can increase the likelihood of cancellation. when i started signups for muppet mafia, i was full of motivation, but by the time the long wait on the schedule was over, i had basically lost interest and had to cancel

IMO you shouldn't host a Mafia if there is a chance you'll lose interest.

 

[Revin]

in that case no one should host mafia games because there always a chance they might lose interest

 

[Time Turner]

The chance is always going to be there no matter what you do, just as there's the chance that everyone might drop out of your game, or that you might lose all of your role cards due to a computer virus. There's always going to be the possibility for something to go wrong.

dammit pearl

 

[Lakituthequick]

I didn't mean it that way.

Ninja'd. Still same text.

 

[Nabber]

well I made this big huge post about this and then I got logged out and it was erased and now I'm pissed

but I will do my best to summarize it or something, though I probably forgot a bunch of stuff

-the schedule generally doesn't actually take that long. besides MW Werewolf and BMB Games, mafias can generally start playing about 2-4 months after their thread is made

-and even at that rate, many mafias are not ready to play for whatever reasons and we end up skipping them and many get postponed. the OP's own Paper Mario mafia has had multiple opportunities to start, but she hasn't started it for whatever reasons

-removing the schedule will not necessarily create a problem, but it will certainly make things more confusing and I don't think there will be many benefits

-as has been mentioned, people get confused when there are only 4 mafias going on. any more will just be impossible to keep up with

-people shouldn't have to pick and choose which mafias to get, and that strategy wouldn't really work well anyway since only the hosts know when the game will start. but yeah, picking and choosing mafias to play to avoid playing multiple at a time will result in people not being able to play mafias that turn out to be really good

-it would also discourage people joining new hosts' mafias, since they'd be reluctant to join a mafia that they don't know for certain will be good

-as mentioned before, while every mafia game does take time to prepare roles, even the time of the schedule doesn't really allow enough time for hosts. with the schedule, people at least have an idea when the mafia will start

-while players do change their minds about playing, having the game start sooner won't necessarily change that. players often just drop out of games while they're being played, which is infinitely harder to deal with than players who drop out before the game starts

-again going back to what I said before, replying to your statement that games that have been ready for months are unable to start: it's quite rare that we see a game that is ready to start long before the schedule gets to them

I'm not sure I covered everything, but basically, the schedule works quite fine right now. From what I've seen, it's generally eager players who are upset by the schedule as opposed to the host. If you're impatient, the schedule may not be for you, but maybe mafia - a game which requires strategy and thoughtfulness - isn't for you, either.

oh right now I remember something I forgot to reply to

Also: There's absolutely no reason why it would get chaotic. Forum games isn't chaotic without a schedule, neither is elimination- atleast not chaotic engouh that we feel the need to add a schedule to them. So why bother with one for mafia? Many unaddressed points against it have already been put forward.

i hardly think Counting to Whatever is anywhere near as intensive as mafia is

you can play as many forum games and elimination games at a time as you want because they only take a glance at the last post to be able to play, whereas mafias require an understanding of the events of the game, player psychology, strategy, powers, and other factors and stuff that make it much harder to play than counting to 3

 

[Driftmaster130]

I disagree for the following reasons:

• Mafias are not like forum games (which the vast majority of are just counting and having to do with the last user), and need a schedule to keep them organized. Without a schedule, people would probably start fighting over who should start first and it would be total chaos.
• The schedule lists all games that are being hosted, without a list to keep them in place, some might just be forgotten.
  
  • Four mafias at a time is enough, more will just cause confusion. No schedule for them? Like I said before, chaos.
  • Even if people are given the OK to start, players won't know which mafias are running and which are not and not having a schedule will just cause confusion.
    
    ^I will edit that list if I can come up with any more.

 

[Revin]

Without a schedule, people would probably start fighting over who should start first and it would be total chaos.

no they wouldn't because they'd be able to start at the same time

The schedule lists all games that are being hosted, without a list to keep them in place, some might just be forgotten.

if that happens, a list could probably be implemented without a problem

Four mafias at a time is enough, more will just cause confusion. No schedule for them? Like I said before, chaos.

could you please elaborate on just what kind of confusion this will cause

Even if people are given the OK to start, players won't know which mafias are running and which are not

presumably, players would pay enough attention to know when a game they're in is starting. alternatively, hosts could pm the players in their games so that they know that the game is starting

also i'll try to get to nabber's points sometime later

 

[Nabber]

Four mafias at a time is enough, more will just cause confusion. No schedule for them? Like I said before, chaos.

could you please elaborate on just what kind of confusion this will cause

often people get confused between multiple games, and will think something that happened in Mafia Z actually happened in Mafia X, or maybe they'll just forget what happened in Mafia Y because they've been so focused on the other two

Four mafias at a time is enough, more will just cause confusion. No schedule for them? Like I said before, chaos.

could you please elaborate on just what kind of confusion this will cause

Even if people are given the OK to start, players won't know which mafias are running and which are not

presumably, players would pay enough attention to know when a game they're in is starting. alternatively, hosts could pm the players in their games so that they know that the game is starting

sadly, many players don't even realize games are starting even with the schedule in place
as for PM'ing, that could become a problem with the PM limit

actually that makes me think of something. to suggestions for improvement we go

 

[Revin]

so looking through this thread, it seems that all the people who have vocally opposed the idea all seem to make one assumption: that as soon as the schedule is removed, there are going to be like 8 mafias running at once. i'd just like to say that i highly doubt that would be the case

now onto nabber's points:

-the schedule generally doesn't actually take that long. besides MW Werewolf and BMB Games, mafias can generally start playing about 2-4 months after their thread is made

are you implying that 2-4 months isn't a long time

-and even at that rate, many mafias are not ready to play for whatever reasons and we end up skipping them and many get postponed.

"whatever reasons" is most likely that the hosts look at the schedule and think "oh, my game still has to wait until two/three/four/whatever games have finished, so i don't have to finish my preparations quite yet" and then suddenly bam it's their turn because more than one game ended at around the same time or everyone before them just delayed.

-removing the schedule will not necessarily create a problem, but it will certainly make things more confusing and I don't think there will be many benefits

often people get confused between multiple games, and will think something that happened in Mafia Z actually happened in Mafia X, or maybe they'll just forget what happened in Mafia Y because they've been so focused on the other two

but that already happens sometimes anyway.

-as has been mentioned, people get confused when there are only 4 mafias going on. any more will just be impossible to keep up with

in the unlikely case that there are something like 8 mafias all going on at once, players will just have to be more careful about which mafia games they choose to sign up for, instead of signing up for all of them

-people shouldn't have to pick and choose which mafias to get, and that strategy wouldn't really work well anyway since only the hosts know when the game will start. but yeah, picking and choosing mafias to play to avoid playing multiple at a time will result in people not being able to play mafias that turn out to be really good

the first problem could easily be solved if the hosts announce when they plan on starting the game.
second could happen, but let's face it, there will still be plenty of good games you will get to play as well.

-it would also discourage people joining new hosts' mafias, since they'd be reluctant to join a mafia that they don't know for certain will be good

but that's just assuming that everyone will be paranoid that there'll be 8 mafias at once even though there probably won't be

-as mentioned before, while every mafia game does take time to prepare roles, even the time of the schedule doesn't really allow enough time for hosts. with the schedule, people at least have an idea when the mafia will start

so like i'm confused by this point
what i'm getting from this is that you think the schedule doesn't give enough time and that people only get a rough idea of when the mafia will start
in which case wouldn't removing the schedule give them as much time as they need and allow them to start whenever they like??

-while players do change their minds about playing, having the game start sooner won't necessarily change that. players often just drop out of games while they're being played, which is infinitely harder to deal with than players who drop out before the game starts

won't necessarily not change it either

-again going back to what I said before, replying to your statement that games that have been ready for months are unable to start: it's quite rare that we see a game that is ready to start long before the schedule gets to them

that's probably mostly because people get either lazy and think "i prepare for the game today, i've still got plenty of time before my game is bolded on the schedule" or they're just really busy with schoolwork or something, in which case they wouldn't be able to start anyway

as for PM'ing, that could become a problem with the PM limit

what if they just gave a reminder along with the role? (like "Reminder: This game will be starting in X days" or "This game will be starting on the 8th of November")

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

I feel a rant coming, so please forgive if this turns into a BMB rantTM.

I COMPLETELY disagree with abolishing the schedule. I mean really, mafia games go for about three weeks to five weeks on average. The only exceptions are when Stooben or I end up hosting a mafia game, in which it usually takes about 3 months (ah, the sad truth). People should know that if they are on the bottom of the list, it will take about 2 months to get to the top, if there are like 6-8 games in between, and none of them are a BMB/Stooben game (with us, it would be maybe 3-4 month wait). It honestly doesn't take as long as people think, and what can you be doing during that time? You can be preparing for your game and making sure everything goes right! You have plenty of time for that, and even if you are prepared, then maybe double check and make sure everything is all prepared during the game. Do not tell me that everyone everytime is completely prepared to start their game and that nothing will go wrong and that there won't be something that you forget. Heck, even if that is true, you can prepare and format all your stuff to easily be presented after the game and save a lot of time.

Sorry about this, but I'm going to be completely honest here, and I'm really sorry if I offend someone, but people are lazy. People are lazy here. You start a game, and you get it on the schedule, and then you wait for about 2-3 months to begin (on average), and then you start. What do people do during the 2-3 months? Well, let's look at the past. There are games that had to be pushed back, and make games below it have to start earlier than expected, and why was that? Roles weren't completed, locations weren't done, it started "sooner than they expected", and all this. Don't get me wrong; there are some very valid and reasonable excuses, and it's not like all games that are put off for a bit is the problem. However, there have been too many other games that have failed to start on time because people thought that "omg, I'm 8 mafia games from starting; I'll do roles a month away." I mean, I too have done it where I wasn't fully ready, mostly because I have a few things left to do before I start as I try to take my time, and usually I'm busy with other things as well like forum games and real life stuff. Plus, I believe that at least 3 times I have started a mafia game when 4 games were above me, and in just a week's time all of them were not ready to begin yet. It makes though that truly love mafia games feel a little disheartened because even though people have lives, you shouldn't just make a mafia game, let it sit for months, and then waste people's time and force people below them to scramble to get their game started by pushing it off (again, not targeted at people that have valid excuses mostly). This creates a horrible domino effect because I'm sure that many of the hosts push off all that hard work until when they are 3 or 4 away from starting, and then games cancel or push off and suddenly they have to push off as well because they came sooner than expected.

But the blame is not just at stuff like that, and the schedule does have problems as well. 3 games - changed to 4 so that more games to get moving - are going, while the rest have to wait in a order of when they were asked to be put on the list, and though it is almost chornological, it is not formatted in prepareness, and so while the game that is 8 down from starting is completley ready while the one that is 2 away hasn't even started, we have a problem. It isn't that fair, and I feel bad for people that are completely ready and have to wait on people that are taking forever to start because they aren't prepared. And the list does nothing to alert people when their game is about to start either until it is the moment that they need to start! I do feel like it's a bit of our fault (sorry guys), even though it is not really our job. I mean, it should be our job a bit. I do believe that maybe if we warned people when they are like 3 or 4 games away from starting to let them know that they could be starting between a few days to a month, and to make sure that any things that they need to do for their game is started or finalized so that they are prepared for any unexpected stuff like if a current game suddenly ends or is cancelled, so that everything stays in rather good balance. The thing is that people sometimes forget how close they are to starting and somewhat push their stuff back, and then they look at the list and they realize they are 2 games from starting and are like "oh shit, I still need to finish roles!" And though I agree that people should constantly check the list and should be consistently checking the list, I also realize that we should do a bit more with keeping hosts prepared, and that they do have lives outside the Mafia board (though it only takes 5 seconds to check).

But, I am still completely opposed on no list. There are people that can barely pay attention to the 4 games as it is. I tell you that I have so much trouble remembering which locations I visit in which game, especially if 3 or all 4 of the games have locations in them, and it's annoying. Heck, sometimes I even forget which role I have in what game, which is usually if I am not as active in mafia games. Let's just have 8 mafia games going at the same time, and see how many people forget what game is what, and let's make all of the games inactive because people have to figure out what they will and won't participate in so they know what is happening. People, do you realize how hard it is get to people to sign up because they don't want to overload themselves? Seriously, maybe if the Mafia Board had like 100 people at the same time wanting to play game then we could let this happen, but the fact of the matter is that about 35 people really play mafia games, and about 12-16 of them play in most of them. All that is going to happen is that people are going to see the chaos of what it would be like without a list, and be stuck having games being inactive messes because of it, and then we'll be having a new board of "please bring the list back!" written like 3 times. Heck, probably wouldn't be able to see it because either all the mafia games would be stickied, or they'll all be unstickied, and then we are completely confused on which games are the sign-ups and which games are actually running.

So please listen and READ this. The schedule is faulty, and it is annoying to deal with. We all deal with it, and we all wish that it was better. But would you rather get what keeps us somewhat stable to something that sounds good at first but a completely mess in the end result? I gave a perfectly reasonable idea that we could try and possibly end up being something that is a fix to the cancelled and put off games so that the list is a lot more efficient and effective, and though it won't fix all the problems about the list, it would be a major tune-up to the list and make most people content and lower the pain of the schedule. Seriously, Reversinator can back me up that in forum games that people are more prepared and more proactive with what they do if they are given reminders, and just some warning about when stuff is due, and it truly helps out a lot. I don't know why it's taking this long to bringing that concept from the forum games to the mafia board.

Please don't be like "tl;dr", because this is honestly something that should be read. I know I rant a lot, but I really do believe that this could do wonders. I know that I am not the best player, the best host, the best person, the best solution maker, but I do know that I am very dedicated to both the Mafia Board and the MHG, and that all I want to do is try to make life better for both sides, and everything.

 

[Revin]

i just want to point out that you're making the assumption that as soon as the schedule is removed there'll be 8 different games running at once

 

[Nabber]

i'll respond to these when i get home later but

i'm not assuming that there will be 5 mafias running at once. i'm just assuming that if we even have one more mafia running, which would be the whole point of removing the schedule, things would still get more confusing. while i'm aware that mafia is confusing as it is, removing the schedule would be like shooting a leg because it limps a little

 

[Mario4Ever]

removing the schedule would be like shooting a leg because it limps a little

That makes no sense.

 

[New Super Mario]

I would still like a more "one at a time" kind of thing, even though no one else does.

I can focus more if I'm only playing one game, IMO.