What is wrong with copy characters?

[chillv]

Copy characters are characters that have similar, but not exactly the same movesets as other characters. Examples are : Ness and Lucas, Mario and Luigi, Fox, Falco and Wolf etc.

I don't really see why people want copy characters to be just skins for other characters because they think they will be a carbon-copy if they aren't, which is not true. All copy character usually just have similar movesets, but they usually have special things about their moveset and even moves themselves that the others don't have, and I know this since I have played as all copy characters in all the Smash Bros. games and I have tried out all of their movesets.

Also, I don't think a person who wants to play as that copy character would like the fact that they are still refered to by the name of the original character. Call it "fan service", or taking up spots for what YOU consider "better" or "more original" characters, but all of that is very self-centered and selfish.

Now, this won't be bad for characters with names that don't signify a specific gender or person such as Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and Pokemon Trainer. However, for characters with specific names, this isn't a good idea.

This would not be a problem if you could change the name the character is referred to as, but for that reason, why don't they just have their own slot? That's my point exactly, it wouldn't be any different if they had their own slot. Mashing them in with other characters is just completely stupid and inconvenient, since they are they own individual person with their own individual features with their own individual name anyway, and it wouldn't take up much space at all to do.

Also, before you talk about anything that has to do with the release date (dead line) of this game, development and such, that is their problem and we should even be worried about that stuff. And before you try to accuse me of being a fanboy who just wants one of those copy characters in the smash bros games, I'll have you know that this is not in favor with anything that has to do with me. It is defending those who would like any of those characters to be in the next smash bros and opposing those who say things like I gave examples to earlier.

More examples

If Daisy was in instead of a character who actually deserves it, I would be pretty angry at Sakurai.

Really? It took me less than a minute. This is really why I don't like the SSB fanbase.

 

[Ray Trace]

No one really calls them "copy characters". We call them "clones".

As far as I'm concerned, these guys are criticized just because they're nearly model imports of other characters, something texture hackers can achieve easily. Hell, even modders in Brawl can give these guys completely different movesets via PSA editing. So if they could do it, why not Nintendo?

Also, my major problem with clones is Ganondorf: a character who has EVERYTHING to NOT make him a Captain Falcon clone...yet he still became one. What the ---.

If Daisy was in instead of a character who actually deserves it, I would be pretty angry at Sakurai.

I don't care how old this comment is: the "deserving" reason for characters is a completely nonfactual, highly opinion "reason" a character should or shouldn't make it in. I keep seeing this "deserving" reason everywhere and I just think it's blasphemy: only Nintendo decides who is deserving or not. In this case, Rosalina is more deserving than Toad because they say so.

Now it's ok to say that you want Toad before Rosalina, but to say that Toad or Waluigi is more deserving is dumb.

 

[Duskull]

Now, this won't be bad for characters with names that don't signify a specific gender or person such as Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and Pokemon Trainer. However, for characters with specific names, this isn't a good idea.

If they made a separate female Villager, that would be ridiculous. A alternate costume is all that are needed and it's not like there is going to be any difference between them expect maybe speed and strength. Female Pokemon trainer could work, but only if different Pokemon are used.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

If Daisy was in instead of a character who actually deserves it, I would be pretty angry at Sakurai.

Really? It took me less than a minute. This is really why I don't like the SSB fanbase.

>quoting a post from 2008

are you serious

 

[GalacticPetey]

I don't mind clones that much. The problem is that they take up roster space that could be used for new, original movesets.

That being said, there are no clones in Brawl. Only semi-clones. In some cases, the semi-clone is better than the original. Like Toon Link.

 

[chillv]

I don't mind clones that much. The problem is that they take up roster space that could be used for new, original movesets.

That being said, there are no clones in Brawl. Only semi-clones. In some cases, the semi-clone is better than the original. Like Toon Link.

Actually, there are clones in Brawl. Mario & Luigi, Fox & Falco & Wolf, Ness & Lucas, Ike & Marth are all clones. Also, Toon Link is a clone of link. If they have similar movesets, they are a clone.

Now, this won't be bad for characters with names that don't signify a specific gender or person such as Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and Pokemon Trainer. However, for characters with specific names, this isn't a good idea.

If they made a separate female Villager, that would be ridiculous. A alternate costume is all that are needed and it's not like there is going to be any difference between them expect maybe speed and strength. Female Pokemon trainer could work, but only if different Pokemon are used.

Um, I was saying that it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to have just skins because they have names that don't signify a specfic individual

If Daisy was in instead of a character who actually deserves it, I would be pretty angry at Sakurai.

Really? It took me less than a minute. This is really why I don't like the SSB fanbase.

>quoting a post from 2008

are you serious

It doesn't matter how old it is, it still is an example or what I am referring to and that is what matters most.

 

[Duskull]

Skins I'm good with, separate characters is a massive no-no

 

[chillv]

Skins I'm good with, separate characters is a massive no-no

I'm saying if the character is a complete individual from the other character (ex. Kirby & Prince Fluff or Peach & Daisy) and has their own name and feature, it should have it's own slot and be referred to by their own name since it would be way more convenient. Mashing characters together and making them be referred to by the same name, even if the other has another name is ridiculous.

 

[Ray Trace]

I don't think that's people's concern.

I think the concern is that characters have nearly identical moves to another character, making them look like intricate model imports rather than an expensive, big-budget thing you'd see with other characters.

 

[chillv]

I don't think that's people's concern.

I think the concern is that characters have nearly identical moves to another character, making them look like intricate model imports rather than an expensive, big-budget thing you'd see with other characters.

But I don't see why are people makng such a big fuss about it.

 

[Magikrazy]

I don't mind clones that much. The problem is that they take up roster space that could be used for new, original movesets.

That being said, there are no clones in Brawl. Only semi-clones. In some cases, the semi-clone is better than the original. Like Toon Link.

Actually, there are clones in Brawl. Mario & Luigi, Fox & Falco & Wolf, Ness & Lucas, Ike & Marth are all clones. Also, Toon Link is a clone of link. If they have similar movesets, they are a clone.

The SmashWiki has an article on clones explaining what constitutes a clone.
Click here.

 

[Ray Trace]

But I don't see why are people makng such a big fuss about it.

Because they're really REALLY easy to make. All Nintendo did was basically took the bones of an existing character, imported their 3D model over it, and they're like 80% done, with just some few new animations, icons, voice effects, and attack tweaks. I can even import anything I wanted to into a character in Brawl. I've seen hacks with far more effort poured onto it than some of those clone characters. And some of these people who made them, such as me, has no prior formal experience with this stuff before hand.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I don't mind clones that much. The problem is that they take up roster space that could be used for new, original movesets.

That being said, there are no clones in Brawl. Only semi-clones. In some cases, the semi-clone is better than the original. Like Toon Link.

Actually, there are clones in Brawl. Mario & Luigi, Fox & Falco & Wolf, Ness & Lucas, Ike & Marth are all clones. Also, Toon Link is a clone of link. If they have similar movesets, they are a clone.

I'm baffled at how wrong you are. Ike and Marth are nothing alike. They have swords, use counter, and are from Fire Emblem. Those are the only similarities. Wolf is not a clone at all.

You need to understand, there's more to characters than special moves. Compare Fox and Wolf. They have different jabs, tilts, smashes, grabs, and aerials. Hell, their specials have very different properties. Same thing with characters like Lucas, Toon Link, Falco, Ganondorf, and Luigi. You are only looking at specials. All their other attacks vary enough from their source to be considered semi-clones.

 

[Magikrazy]

I already showed him the article.

 

[Smashley]

Ike & Marth are clones.

..do they even share any moves besides maybe their down-b? they're not even close to being semi-clones, let alone complete clones

the rest you mentioned do share some similarities, though my opinion is that their differences are enough to make them semi-clones rather than true clones (in brawl at least)

gp conflicted me with basically that worded better but whatever

also i'm completely fine with most (semi-)clones and for the most part i wouldn't like them to be grouped up in one spot

 

[Magikrazy]

I already showed him the article.

 

[chillv]

Well, it doesn't matter since I have asked to have this thread locked.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

I think what Chillv meant by "clones" for the Mario/Luigi, Link/Toon Link, etc. is the fact that they basically look alike.

Not trying to defend him, because honestly I have disagreed with everything he has said so far. Especially about the fan-base; I know that many of them are annoying, but you don't just call everyone selfish and stuff.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Well, it doesn't matter since I have asked to have this thread locked.

So you want a thread locked because you can't back up an argument?

 

[chillv]

Well, it doesn't matter since I have asked to have this thread locked.

So you want a thread locked because you can't back up an argument?

No, that is not the reason. The mod who I asked to lock it will give the reason.

 

[Ray Trace]

....I don't see how this thread can be locked. I don't see it escalating in a flame-war, nor do I see it breaking any rules. Why rule out a discussion like this?

 

[Magikrazy]

Did you read the article at least?

 

[chillv]

Did you read the article at least?

Yes

 

[GalacticPetey]

I see no reason to lock this thread. There is room for discussion and this a major Smash topic.

The problem is when people start making false, ridiculous claims about clones and which characters meet that criteria.

 

[chillv]

....I don't see how this thread can be locked. I don't see it escalating in a flame-war, nor do I see it breaking any rules. Why rule out a discussion like this?

I thought a mod can lock a thread for any reason if the topic creator wants it to be locked.