Lucas and Ness.

What should we do with them?

  • Cut them both. We don't need PSI kids.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Leave them both in. We want clones.

    Votes: 8 66.7%

  • Cut Lucas and give his moveset to Ness in custom moves.

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • Cut Ness and give his moveset to Lucas in custom moves.

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Total voters
    12
as i've stated before i'm completely opposed to Ness returning because of his hat

also they're not clones, though you probably already know that
 
I used to think they were clones until I played around with them a bit. I don't really care what happens as long as Ness at least is there
 
Please cut the "We want clones" out.

I wan them both in. And if either one of them is cut, I pray to Arcues that they are replaced with another Mother character.
 
Ness should never get cut, don't care either way regarding Lucas at this point.
 
I love your asinine bullshit regarding your definition of a "clone" which is twisted and manipulated so it seems like Ness and Lucas are true clones when the reality is that although they share some aspects with each other, it doesn't mean that they're clones.

That could be an honest misunderstanding but the way you said, "we want clones" makes me so pissed off that I'm this close to writing a rant paragraph on how Lucas and Ness are NOT clones.
 
3D Player 2004 said:
Smash Wiki:

Lucas and Ness are semiclones.
Click to expand...

I can also take nonsourced cherry-picked quotes completely out of context too and make them sound like a fact.

But guess what? NOWHERE in SmashWiki said that they're semi-clones or even clones!

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Lucas_%28SSBB%29 said:
Lucas' special moves are similar to Ness', but his physical attacks are almost all completely different. He relies on his PSI powers far more than Ness, using them for all but his forward smash, up aerial, down tilt, and standard combo attacks.
Click to expand...
 
Baby Luigi said:
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Clone#Clones_in_Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl said:
Lucas' standard attacks are unique with the exception of his down tilt, forward smash, and up aerial (while they have some alteration to their animation, they are identical in function to Ness'). Their special moves however, are very similar in name and appearance, while having similar mechanics but differing functioning. PK Freeze freezes opponents instead of being a very powerful vertical KO move like PK Flash. Lucas' PK Fire differs to the point where it can be argued to not be cloned, as it's a single hit projectile that knocks opponents away, while Ness' hits multiple times and traps opponents (additionally, Lucas' fires his PK Fire with a different animation, and Ness can fire his down diagonally in the air). Lucas' PK Thunder can go through opponents while Ness' doesn't, and his PK Thunder 2 is a multi-hitting move, while Ness' hits once. However, while the similarity in their moveset can be argued to not be quite enough to label them as semi-clones, they have very similar physics, with them having identical size, shape, weight, and falling speed. They additionally both suffer from 10 additional frames of lag when being grab released that no other characters in Brawl suffer from.
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3D Player 2004 said:
Baby Luigi said:
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Clone#Clones_in_Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl said:
Lucas' standard attacks are unique with the exception of his down tilt, forward smash, and up aerial (while they have some alteration to their animation, they are identical in function to Ness'). Their special moves however, are very similar in name and appearance, while having similar mechanics but differing functioning. PK Freeze freezes opponents instead of being a very powerful vertical KO move like PK Flash. Lucas' PK Fire differs to the point where it can be argued to not be cloned, as it's a single hit projectile that knocks opponents away, while Ness' hits multiple times and traps opponents (additionally, Lucas' fires his PK Fire with a different animation, and Ness can fire his down diagonally in the air). Lucas' PK Thunder can go through opponents while Ness' doesn't, and his PK Thunder 2 is a multi-hitting move, while Ness' hits once. However, while the similarity in their moveset can be argued to not be quite enough to label them as semi-clones, they have very similar physics, with them having identical size, shape, weight, and falling speed. They additionally both suffer from 10 additional frames of lag when being grab released that no other characters in Brawl suffer from.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Annnnd you're randomly quoting things without taking in their context. Good job not understanding how clones work.
 
I'd prefer both stay. Just so fans of both characters remain happy.

However if one must be cut. Then I think this time around I'm afraid Lucas is the more likely cut. Ness has senority and has more influence on the franchise even if that's unfair considering Lucas' game was not officially released outside of Japan.
 
I'm pretty sure it's debatable, that's why it's on there. But considering that they share like, literally only three things in common (physics, grab release-minor thing imo-some special moves) compared to the rest of their differences, I'm more on the Luigified character than a true clone.

But hey, that's not TC's original intent...until he moved his goalposts after demonstrated how completely wrong he was.
 
*about to rant about this again, not trying to get rude*

Please tell me how they're even (semi-)clones when they have a different playstyle?
Ness is much more focused on juggling his opponent (thanks to his PK Fire and allowing him to follow-up), is meant to be in the air, and is a more reliable killer.
Lucas is more focused on using his superior mobility and keeping his opponent away (with his own PK Fire that pushes them away), has more recovery options and is meant to be on the ground.

Also, they only share about 6-7 moves (Up Air, Forward Smash, Down Tilt, PK Starstorm, PK Fire, PK Thunder and PSI Magnet), but even then, some of those have notable differences that are not just speed and power (yes, I acknowledge the Forward Smash and Up Air are just a speed vs. power difference).

If by that logic, they are still (semi-)clones, then Charizard & Bowser would be as well because they share a Flamethrower and are heavy characters. Or Mario and Squirtle would be semi-clones because they share a Water Gun and are light. >__>

Anyways, Ness WILL be in, and I think Lucas will still be likely to be in. I'm a fan of both characters (their playstyles suit me pretty well), and I love the Ness vs. Lucas match-up. Best part of a Ness vs. Lucas match I've ever been in. (4:48) ;P

And they can actually work pretty well together in a Doubles team, which is pretty ironic considering characters from the same series usually don't work well together in a 2v2 (like Falco & Fox, Mario & Peach, etc.), but those 2 stand out. =P
 
They're not cutting an original. Lucas will probably stay in. And, as has been said numerous times in this thread, Lucas is not a Ness clone.
 
WTF with those poll options. They're obviously slanted.
 
Oh joy. More people ignorant about clones. I don't feel like ranting abou this game. All I'm gonna say is do your fucking research.
 
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