The (series) pages kind of sucks, don't they?

[Glowsquid]

I see several obvious problems with the (series) pages as they are now. They are:

1: Redundant, unfocused coverage. Of course Mario is going to show up in the Character section of multiple series and of course Donkey Kong (the game) is going to be listed on both the Mario and Donkey Kong series pages because reasons, but c'mon; If all the Donkey Kong Country games are going to be listed on the Donkey Kong (series) page anyway, then what's the point of having a separate Kondey Dong Country series page in the first place?

2: The partner series is space-wasting verbiage; just throw a "see also" link to the other series page instead of having a paragraph that basically amounts to "Wario Land is a series of gaems that stars Wario doing stuff, a guy who was in a Mario game before I think. It has a lot of games and stuff."

3: The game descriptions by far and large, sucks. Most messilly attempt to describe story, gameplay and release history in too much detail for the small space available and too little detail to be actually informative, resulting in ugly walls of text that fail spectacularly at being informative or interesting.

I mean, look at this bullshit;

Donkey Kong Country is a game for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Released in 1994, it is known for being the first game to use pre-rendered sprites, creating a 3D effect throughout the game. It is the first game in the Donkey Kong Country series, with three sequels, Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!, and Donkey Kong Country Returns. It also has a similar semi-sequel, titled Donkey Kong Land. The game stars Donkey Kong, along with his buddy, Diddy Kong, in his debut, as the two travel across Donkey Kong Island in search for the Banana Hoard. The game was remade for the Game Boy Color in 2000, and was also remade again for the Game Boy Advance in 2003. The two remakes feature some new Bonus Games, the ability to save in the overworld, and several more new elements. Donkey Kong Country was also released on the Wii's Virtual Console in 2006, being the same as the original version.

Dr. Mario was the first game in the Dr. Mario series; it was released for the NES in 1990. The game brought the basic concept of the series to the players' attention immediately, as they would start the game off having to reorganize falling Megavitamins in order to eradicate viruses from the screen. Once all viruses have been eliminated, the player would move on to the next level. As the game progressed, each level rose in difficulty, providing more viruses for the player to eliminate and less space to maneuver the Megavitamins in. Dr. Mario was ported and remade many times after its original release.

n June of 1985, Nintendo released Wrecking Crew in Japan for the Famicom Disk System, then later that year in other parts of the world for the NES. The concept of the game revolved around Mario (and Luigi, if a second player were to join the game) who were in the middle of a demolition site. While at the site, they had to break down all of the concrete walls with their hammers found in each level. The player would encounter several enemies, none of which could be defeated with the hammer that Mario (or Luigi) would carry. Rather, they would have to trap enemies under steel drums. The game also featured a new character: Foreman Spike, who would occasionally appear to outdo Mario at breaking down the concrete walls, and who could push Mario off of ledges. The game also featured a custom level creator, the first game in the Mario series to ever do so.

Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest is the second Donkey Kong Country game for the Super Nintendo. It is the sequel of Donkey Kong Country and is also the predecessor to Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! and Donkey Kong Country Returns. The game has a Game Boy pseudo-sequel, Donkey Kong Land 2, that was released one year after the original. It was released in 1995 and stars Diddy Kong, as he and his partner, Dixie Kong, make their way through Crocodile Isle to save Donkey Kong from the Kremling Krew. In 2004, a remake of the game was made for the Game Boy Advance. It features several differences, including the addition of photographs and extra DK Coins. Later in 2007, the game was remade on the Virtual Console to play on the Wii system.

Take any random entry on any (series) page and they're likely to be like that. If that's all series page are going to be made of, what's the point?

S'yeah, thoughts? Comments? Criticism?

 

[Ray Trace]

Well there's a reason I placed the rewrite tag in the Mario (series) article: the page is just a MESS. It doesn't need to cover every single flippin' Mario game in existence, ESPECIALLY if the said Mario game is part of the sub-series (why the --- is Mario Party 3 covered here, it should be in the Mario Party series article). The entire page needs a huge overhaul before I take that rewrite tag off this page. It doesn't help that it's written flowerly and the like.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

3: The game descriptions by far and large, sucks. Most messilly attempt to describe story, gameplay and release history in too much detail for the small space available and too little detail to be actually informative, resulting in ugly walls of text that fail spectacularly at being informative or interesting.

Take any random entry on any (series) page and they're likely to be like that. If that's all series page are going to be made of, what's the point?

S'yeah, thoughts? Comments? Criticism?

Wait wait wait, I'm working on the WarioWare series pag (yes I am) and I have done descriptions, partially for the Mario & Luigi (series) page.. Does it fall in the same trap as your examples? And if it does, what do you suggest I do to improve it?

I also have a crapton of questions regarding the Donkey Kong (series) article:

Why is coverage pertaining mostly to Donkey Kong Country? Where is Mario, the Mini Marios, the Diddy Kong Racing characters? Sure, the Mario vs. Donkey stuff is in its own series article, but same for Donkey Kong Country. Why is Mario vs. Donkey Kong part of the Donkey Kong series; isn't it part of the Mario series as well, so why is the navigation template just the Donkey Kong series?

...

 

[GBA]

I see the need for a series pages to provide an overview of their games and list them (though as Glowsquid mentioned, perhaps not so extensively with the summaries, it looks horrible), but the 'notable' characters/items/shit tables seriously need to go or be trimmed, we have separate character articles for a reason. Perhaps having summarised paragraphs would be better, so in the case of the Mario (series) page, paragraphs about mechanics, power-ups, blocks, coins, enemies and the like would be better instead of huge extensive lists of redundant shit.

(Also on the topic of the Mario series page, I absolutely agree with BL, there's no need to list every bloody game that features Mario in existence, and it brings home the point of redundant crap more than any other page. I mean really, we list Toadsworth, E. Gadd and Gooper Blooper as notable characters, wtf)

A case-by-case thing would probably work better than an overarching system imo, they all seem to be of varying levels of shit, look at this in comparison to this, for example.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

If all the Donkey Kong Country games are going to be listed on the Donkey Kong (series) page anyway, then what's the point of having a separate Kondey Dong Country series page in the first place?

I don't know if this question is rhetorical. I suppose the separate "Konkey Dong County" is to provide more focus on the Konkey Dong Country series. But the Donkey Kong series page's coverage acts like Konkey Dong Country is the only game worth noting. Regarding the Donkey Kong series page... I..I... have no idea how to approach this. I'd like some more focus on nonDonkey Kong Country stuff, but not making sub-series pages feel redundant. In the meantime, we do have to summarize who are the major players in the Donkey Kong series, so maybe we can have character descriptions for the major playable characters and the major villains? Again, though, where are mah Mario, Mini-Marios, and Pauline, dammit!?

Oh, by the way, I don't really like how characters are divided by "protagonist" and "antagonist", because characters change their roles. You can argue that they are usually protagonists or usually antagonists. Okay, fine. But in the Donkey Kong series page, counting more than just a few games covered there, Donkey Kong is consistently both a major protagonist (Konkey Dong Country and its sister series) and a major antagonist (Donkey Kong, Game Boy Donkey Kong, and most Mario vs. Donkey Kong games). The protagonist/antagonist divide doesn't work really well there.

I'd like to suggest a few things to improve the Donkey Kong series page.

• Add Mario as a character
• Move anyone that isn't Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, or King K. Rool into their respective sub-series page. This is the Donkey Kong series, not the Konkey Dong Country series, after all. Yes, move the species there as well.
• Items section bloats the page, considering the pretty broad scope of the Donkey Kong series. Recurring items should go into the respective sub-series page.
• Ditch the partner series section.
• Add Mario as a character

The rewriting and stuff come later. I'm more concerned about how the page looks for now. But anyway, does anyone find my suggestion too bold, or is this the right start of the right approach?

P.S. in the title, it should be "suck", not "sucks".

 

[Glowsquid]

Wait wait wait, I'm working on the WarioWare series pag (yes I am) and I have done descriptions, partially for the Mario & Luigi (series) page.. Does it fall in the same trap as your examples? And if it does, what do you suggest I do to improve it?

To be honest, yeah? Look at these entry;

WarioWare: Touched! uses mainly the touchscreen controls of the Nintendo DS. Wario, who has stolen a Gameboy Advance and a Gameboy Advance SP, trips and drops the two systems into a manhole. The Sewer Guru appears with the two systems and the Nintendo DS, asking Wario which one he dropped. Wario fights the Sewer Guru and takes all the systems. After figuring how the Nintendo DS works, he realizes the potential it has for profit and markets the system. WarioWare: Touched! introduces a few new characters: Ashley and Red, the Thang Family, Mike. Dr. Crygor also, from now on, has a full helmet rather than half a helmet (WOW). As in WarioWare: Twisted!, each character microgame set is based on certain controls rather than an aesthetic theme (for instance, Mona's microgames involve making slicing movements on the touch screen).

The first spinoff in the series, Game & Wario does not follow the traditional format of the WarioWare games. The typical microgames have been replaced by a set of more elaborate minigames which take advantage of the Nintendo Wii U's Gamepad, although microgames themselves do appear in one minigame. Most characters also undergo a minor redesign, with the different art style of the game. In the story, Wario sees the advertised Wii U on the television screen. Wario decides to market games for the console and invites his friends to help him. Eventually, his game, Wario's Pirates, is a success in Toy Express, but his fans mistaken him for the villain and blast him away. Wario crash lands in Club Sugar, meeting his employees, and they agree to go bowling.

It's silly to spend so much space describing the (nonexistent) plot, and it's even sillier to have all of it. These things are supposed to be overview.

Game & Wario eschews the microgame format in favour of a selection of single-player and multiplayer minigames themed around the WarioWare cast. The game uses various functions of the Gamepad, such as [stuff]

The entries on the M&L page ironically have decently-sized premise-summaries, but absolutely no information on the gameplay changes throughout the series. Something like "Mario & Luigi: Partners in Sodomy ditch the BP system in favour of [stuff]" (or w/e, I haven't played these games) would be great.

I also have a crapton of questions regarding the Donkey Kong (series) article:

The suggestion I made on http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Wario_%28series%29 was to remove the listings that conflict with the subseries pages and have the main "series" pages list one-offs (or two-offs - I don't think it'd be productive to have a series page for Paon's DK peg-climbing games, or considering Jungle Beat a "series" because of the two medal redemption games). This once-and-only once policy may pose the occassional problem (is Barrel Blast a Kondey Dong spinoff or a Kondey Dong Country spinoff?), but I'd wager to say the distinction is clear-cut in most cases.

but the 'notable' characters/items/shit tables seriously need to go or be trimmed, we have separate character articles for a reason. Perhaps having summarised paragraphs would be better, so in the case of the Mario (series) page, paragraphs about mechanics, power-ups, blocks, coins, enemies and the like would be better instead of huge extensive lists of redundant shit.

yeah.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Thanks for the bluntness. I've removed most instances of the plot on the series page and removed some pointless details. The sections describe mostly the main draw of each game and new characters introduced now.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

The suggestion I made on http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Wario_%28series%29 was to remove the listings that conflict with the subseries pages and have the main "series" pages list one-offs (or two-offs - I don't think it'd be productive to have a series page for Paon's DK peg-climbing games, or considering Jungle Beat a "series" because of the two medal redemption games). This once-and-only once policy may pose the occassional problem (is Barrel Blast a Kondey Dong spinoff or a Kondey Dong Country spinoff?), but I'd wager to say the distinction is clear-cut in most cases.

What characters should the main "series" page list, though? Are we talking about game listing or the every listing?

 

[Walkazo]

Yep, (series) pages suck. Fully agree. Even the way the bloody tables are set up us bad: you can't tell if the date/region/ratings rows are for the above or below games, the region thing is confusing, the vast plurality of rating rows being empty looks bad and even the filled ones seem like wastes of space, etc. The "main features" lists are even worse wastes of space: I've long since thought that they should all be deleted, especially the "Mario (series)" ones, that just keep getting longer and longer. Tables like this chart (Mario_Kart_(series)#Characters), make sense, but blocks of big crufty paragraphs? Not so much.

Series pages should be more about the series as a whole: overviews to some extent, yeah, but also places where we can talk about bigger-scale stuff that can't just fit into one game's page or a regular list page. "Critical Reception" and "Impact" sections are good, maybe a section about recurring themes as a whole and some yes/no inclusion charts, and a list of games with the dates, boxarts, short blurbs (like, you could tweet them short) and maybe review stuff all in one row per game. That'd be a good place to start, I think.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

So, for the Mario (series) page, can we omit all those game listings and maybe make it a simpler list? I'd say, the series pages, when it comes to games, is just a bloated version of a "List of games" by date. So, we should focus on the big picture, focus on the series as a whole. I think the Main features thing is pretty much crap as well.

I think we should create a new format for the series pages and maybe present it as a proposal because if we're ever going to reach our goal, some serious and bold overhaul is going to be in mind, and perhaps we can bring attention so people know what's going on.

 

[Glowsquid]

Since that last post, I've actually been trying to draft a (series) page format I think doesn't sucks, but I ran into two snags.

1: I've been unable to write summaries in a format that consistently pleases me.

2: I thought a neat thing would be "Themes/Recurring Elements" section analyzing the gameplay style of the series (like, the DKC page would detail how the platform placement is more "realistic" than Mario and how tag-team is implement and bluhuh) but same issue as previous + no clue on how to handle disconnected oddball games and two-offs on the real big pages.

One thing I'm convinced now is that the table format, characters and item list, etc... just need to go entirely. The Wario Land (series) and Donkey Kong Land (series) pages have the "crappiest" formating, but conversely, they're the ones that are actually informative and readable.

...So yeah, inputs anyone?

 

[Walkazo]

Yes, the characters/items things are terrible. And while tables for for displaying lots of small information tidbits, I feel like the summaries being in there makes the format a bit unwieldy. having sections for each game, like History sections on character/etc. pages, will also make navigating the series pages easier than having to scroll down the tables (or use the browser's find function) to find specific entries.

Looking at the DKL series page, I kinda wonder if making very basic "infoboxes" for the boxart, release date and system to go next to the summaries might work (and save more nitty-gritty things like ratings/reviews stuff for an entire summary section of the series as a whole). Since the way that page is organized seems okay besides the sloppy presentation of the boxart and the release dates and systems points alongside the summary paragraphs.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I actually am okay with the Konkey Dong Land series page's formatting. Since it lacks tables, there is much less bloating.

The character items things can go. If we remove it, we trim a fat chunk of the article, and we don't have to go into never-ending discussions on how notable each object is.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

My sandbox page is the start of... I guess something.

It's not much, but I'm planning on NOT adding the character boxes, adding an overall reception and legacy. I might need some help on this part; the only reason I know people love the format of games and like the innovative microgame concept was when critics panned Game & Wario for NOT being like that, but praised that Gamer minigame.

Anyhow, the summaries and layout aren't the best, sure, but any more suggestions on improvement?

 

[Glowsquid]

Sorry for not responding earlier,

Short description of the game's content and release history are redundant and boring, so what I think the series pages should be going for is describe how the game changes and compare to each other (that's something the Donkey Kong Land one does very well). In that respect, your sandbox is a wee bit underdevelopped. For example, DIY's section could mention how the pre-built minigames are simpler than those in previous installments.

I'll provide an example of how I think the game descriptions should be written, eventually, but for the moment, I wanted to provide an example of what I meant when I said the series page could be used for more in-depth analysis. Any thoughts ? ^_^

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Well, I was doing other things as well, but that you responded in the end is the thing that matters to me. :')

I might attempt to stick with your suggestion. Replace the content and release history or add on with the changes? Of course it's a bit underdeveloped, it's a sandbox page after all, and considering how much of a mess the series pages are, I'm very confused on the correct approach to formatting and writing series pages without overhauling the entire thing, so I really appreciate some criticism on what I'm doing in the sandbox. I can then make the following adjustments and we can work together into making something really embarrassing into something at least slightly less humiliating.

 

[Glowsquid]

I'm very confused on the correct approach to formatting and writing series pages without overhauling the entire thing

"Overhauling the entire thing" is what I think we should do, yes.



Any comment on what I posted above, by the way? ^^

 

[Walkazo]

It's beautiful.

(But the ref needs more formatting: bald links are so bad.)

 

[Glowsquid]

I was going to mention I was lazy on the references since it's just a proof-of-concept, but I thought it was self-evident :V. When it gets on mainspace, you can bet the citations will be properly formatted.

 

[Walkazo]

I figured that.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I'm very confused on the correct approach to formatting and writing series pages without overhauling the entire thing

"Overhauling the entire thing" is what I think we should do, yes.



Any comment on what I posted above, by the way? ^^

Oh yeah, overhaul... that's what I mentioned earlier, surprisingly. D'oh. >.<

I think we should create a new format for the series pages and maybe present it as a proposal because if we're ever going to reach our goal, some serious and bold overhaul is going to be in mind, and perhaps we can bring attention so people know what's going on.

Any comment on what I posted above, by the way? ^^

Goody, goody. I'm still confused on the approach on it, though. I don't think I'm still understanding the gist of it. Is this approach going to apply to all series pages or do you think each series pages should be determined individually?

Also, how do we deal with spinoff series? You know, where would details on Game & Wario go? There is one sentence, sure, but what about for wider-encompassing series? Like Donkey Kong? Or Mario? On the respective section or...?

 

[Glowsquid]

The idea is that the series page would have both individual game listing (as they do now) and an "Overview" section that would describe common elements in the series and how these changed or evolved over time. Sub-headers can be warranted when two or more games in the series have notable changes and idiosyncrasies (see the current Wario Land (series) pages.)

The general (series) page would be more focused on the one/two offs and wouldn't individually list the games that are already covered by a more specific series page, although said sub-series would still warrant a sub-header briefly describing them. An "overview" sub-header could still be warranted for any notable set of two or more game that aren't covered by a more specific page. One-offs wouldn,t warrant such sections, although they can still be mentioned when relevant.

So, for example, a Konkey Dong Country series page with my suggested overview section would be like;

==Overview==
The Kondey Dong Country series is largely a traditional platformer [but]. Recurring features include a large amount of animal rides with varied skillsets, a focus on hidden collectibles and real-time dong expension.

===Retro Studios===

Retro Studios' revival of the series stays largely faithful to Rareware's, but with some differences such as a lessened emphasis on animal rides and the buddy characters being treated as powerups instead of fully-fledged playable characters [and stuff].

And the general Kondey Dong series would be like:

==List of gaems==
===Sub-series====
====Kondey Dong Country====
{{seemoar:Kondey Dong Country (series)}}

In the 90's Rareware rebooted the series as a platformer and it introduced a brand new cast and shit.
====Kondey Dong Land====
{{seemoar:Kondey Dong Land (series)}}
Kondey Dong Land was the poor man's Kondey Dong Country.
=====Mario vs Konkey Dong.=====
{{seemoar:Mario vs Kondey Dong (series)}}

It sucks.

===One/Two-offs===
====Jungle Beat====
====Barrel Blast====
====King of Swing====
====Jungle Climber====
====Barrel Blast====
====Kondey Dong 64====

==Overview==
===Arcade games and remake===
===King of Swing/Jungle Climber===

 

[Walkazo]

Why just have the List of Games section be like History sections and have the one/two-offs mixed in with the subseries? That'd cut out a level of headers and avoid the awkward-as-hell "One/Two-offs" division, plus the consistency with History sections would also be a good thing.

And I'm guessing the Overview at the bottom is for stuff that transcends any one subseries, since the specific subseries already get little overview blurbs (or at least, they should, imo), but since the overall series is so broad, it'd have to still be lumped into some sort of groupings?

I only meant to do a little excerpt to illustrate the List of Games / History, but your sardonic summary-writing is infections and I ended up doing another whole draft of what you drafted, bur with some tweaks and things:

=DK series page=
DK is the series that sprouted the Mario series. It started in 1983 or something and had some more games until Mario stole all the thunder. Aside from DK94, the later stuff has very little to do with the original arcade games although MvDK, crossing back over with the Mario series, sorta tries I guess. The rest of the series is sorta loosely related in that it's set in the jungle and DK is the good guy and goes on adventures with recurring friends; but started with DKC in the 90s I think. One day a Bongo-playing music spinoff that keeps the jungle motif happened. Diddy got a spinoff racing game too, and it guest starred characters from unreleased series so everything thinks they're spin-spin-offs and want them on the wiki too but they're not and those guys are wrong and they are staying off the database.

==List of games(/History?)==
===DK arcade===
the arcade games were on arcades and stuff
*DK - the first game
*DKJr - now Mario is the bad guy
*DKIII - Stanley the Bugman 4evar
===DKC===
{{main|DKC series page}}
the reboots on the SNES which were sidescroller adventures and had some basic things in common like blah blah blah, and then they got rebooted again without the crocodiles
*DKC - the first one
*DKC2 - now DKs captured and Diddy has to save him
*DKC3 - now they're both captured
*DKCR - the new one, with tikis
*DKCRJF - the newer one, with vikings
===DK64===
*DK64 - a 3D sidescroller
===DK94===
*DK94 - not actually named this
===MvDK===
{{main|MvDK series page}}
*MvDK - not as fun as DK94
*and the rest
===DKonga===
{{main|DKonga series page}}
Play loud beats on the bongo
*DKonga - see above
*DKonga2 - see above
*DKonga3 - only in Japan, suckas
===DK===
I dunno much about these games tbh
*DK:KoS - yeah
*DK:JC - no

==Overview==
===Arcade and spiritual successors===
Platformers, often puzzle-like especially later on, like DK94 and MvDK. You see the original ones ported in G&W and G&WGallery a lot. Pauline's involved a lot of the time.
===DKC/64/others===
Platformers in the jungle. DK's got friends now, including Cranky, the arcade DK; DKCR's Cranky is obviously DKC's cranky, tho, because time.

Or maybe put the intro in the Overview too, idk.

 

[Glowsquid]

Why just have the List of Games section be like History sections and have the one/two-offs mixed in with the subseries? That'd cut out a level of headers and avoid the awkward-as-hell "One/Two-offs" division, plus the consistency with History sections would also be a good thing.

yeah, that's better.

And I'm guessing the Overview at the bottom is for stuff that transcends any one subseries, since the specific subseries already get little overview blurbs (or at least, they should, imo), but since the overall series is so broad, it'd have to still be lumped into some sort of groupings?

I didn't consider having the series overviews in the main list, but now that I think of it... it could work! Liek;

==List of games(/History?)==
===DK arcade===
Ovarview: the arcade games were on arcades and stuff
*DK - the first game
*DKJr - now Mario is the bad guy
*DKIII - It's Stanley with no bugman.
===DKC===
{{main|DKC series page}}
Ovarview: the reboots on the SNES which were sidescroller adventures and had some basic things in common like blah blah blah, and then they got rebooted again without the crocodiles
*DKC - the first one
*DKC2 - now DKs captured and Diddy has to save him
*DKC3 - now they're both captured
*DKCR - the new one, with tikis
*DKCRJF - the newer one, with vikings
===DK64===
*DK64 - a 3D sidescroller
===DK94===
*DK94 - not actually named this
===MvDK===
{{main|MvDK series page}}

Ovarview: The series started with a DK94 clone but, like, shittier, and then they turned it into a shitty lemming clone.
*MvDK - is different from the rest.
*and the rest
===DKonga===
{{main|DKonga series page}}
Play loud beats on the bongo
*DKonga - see above
*DKonga2 - see above
*DKonga3 - only in Japan, suckas
===DK Paon Game===
Ovarview: In the mid-noughties, D-tier developer Paon released reskinned Clu Clu Land sequels that were mostly notable for being original sorta-platformer released at a time where it looked like Kondey and Pals were doomed to star in mediocre Tako no Tajutsin reskins. Forever.
*DK:KoS - yeah
*DK:JC - no

===Arcade and spiritual successors===
Platformers, often puzzle-like especially later on, like DK94 and MvDK. You see the original ones ported in G&W and G&WGallery a lot. Pauline's involved a lot of the time.
===DKC/64/others===
Platformers in the jungle. Often draws from the DKC side of thing except Jungle Beat because Koizumi derives eternal youth from DK Vine's bitter tear. DK's got friends now, including Cranky, the arcade DK; DKCR's Cranky is obviously DKC's cranky, tho, because time.

 

[Glowsquid]

For now, I'm going to create "Creative talents" sections like the one posted in my project subpage because, what's there to contest really.

Also, is the concencus in this thread strong enough to allow us to just go and delete the endless item/characters sections from the series pages?