So I just finished Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

Lee Chaolan

Oh, excellent!
Had a few thoughts on my mind that I kinda wanted to just put out there, so here goes nothing.

While I like this game, I have trouble seeing why people praise this game so much. It follows the original Paper Mario formula pretty well (which is nice) and adds a few new things, however not all to many of these make the game all that much better.

The chapters themselves are largely uninteresting and the platforming and such isn't designed all too well. Most chapters are just back and forth through hallway areas which are tedious to go through, however this issue has been acknowledged by pretty much everyone so I won't mention it too much. The general theme and progression of each chapter also copies a lot from the original, Keyhual Key is pretty much the same as Lavalava Islamd with the word pirate slapped on it. Chapter 1 is Chapter 1 from the original without much difference, Chapter 4 is the same expect with much worse level design, Chapter 8 copies Bowser's Castle on quite a few ways. Chapter 6 is backtracking while talking to people until you eventually get to an actual proper area. Chapter 7 had a boring moon segment (not to mention General White). Chapter 3 was pretty tbh so I can't bag it too much aside from its repititive nature. The bits inbetween each Chapter were a bit more tedious than in the original, having to go back to an area in the previous chapter (where you just were about ten minutes ago) so that you can experience "I love you" 100 times isn't exactly what I call fun. Overall it's still decent, but suffers from too manh flaws to make it great.

The dialogue in general can be funny at times, but more often than not I found myself skipping through from just bleh it was. The same can be said for most NPCs in general. Having someone not here what you're saying and than making something up gets old really fast, having a family crisis which has nothing to do with you isn't interesting, and having a detective who hears something and then says "Just as I suspected!" every time is just annoying. Most of the OCs, which the game focuses on, have generic personalities and bad designs, Flavio looks completely out of place is pretty much designed to be annoying, Beldam is just your standard mean person with power, Grodus is an incredidibly generic villian that has the usual goal of taking over the world, and the list keeps going on. I did enjoy Doopliss though, what they did in chapter 4 with him and his whole design is a pretty cool idea.

The story itself is not one that I enjoyed and is flawed with a lot of unanswered questions or useless information. Why does Doopliss join the Shadow Sirens? Why does Beldam want to bring back the Shadow Queen? Does Grodus have any motivation aside from "rule the world"? Why is he a robot with seemingly human qualities? Professor Frankly tells you that the Thosuand-Year Doors seal may break soon, yet Dooplisss tricks you into opening it for Grodus, which is pointless because it will open soon anyway. In fact, if the door will open soon, why are did Beldam need the map for the Crystal stars? Things like these show that the story tries to be well written while also giving you reason to go on, which it doesn't accomplish. Not to mention, this entire story is comepltly out of place for a Mario game and doesn't focus much on the Mario part. It's not as bad as SPM, but it's obvious that Intelligent Systems have been trying to make Mario something that it's not. It makes me appreciate what Miyamoto wanted the direction for Sticker Star to be, unfortunatly they didn't do that too well either.

The main reason I like this game is the battle system. It's like the original, with simple controls and concepts while also offering some deeper thought provoking strategy. However, I'm not sure if I like it more than the original. I like stylish moves as they make action commands more interesting and give an option to gain more star power by attacking, which is nice. Partners also have their own HP and are generally more balanced (they also got more personality but that's off point). There are more badges as well as more attacks, and once you acquire new boots or a new hammer, it gives you a permanent special attack, which I think is a good addition. These things however also lead to some more problems, as well as there being more problems in general.

First off, the stage/audience mechanic. The stage will randomly, without warning, give someone a status effect, hit someone, or make attacks miss because of the stupid fog. The audience can be annoying since you know that someone has an item but you can't see them from all the other audience members, and if you leave the Tv for a second the it's possible to get hit. It's not as bad as the stage mind you, I don't mind the audience too much because they aren't too much of a deal. The Bingo system is also another random thing that can either screws you or makes a battle much easier, which again doesn't make the game better.

Second thing, having more badges and Partners having HP can potientially be broken (Danger Mario, Quick Change gives an easy sponge character, etc.) and makes the game pretty easy. Super guarding is also another addition that makes the game easier by being broken, you can beat the Pit of 100 trials before beating Hooktail, and the timing isn't hard with some practice. In my playthrough, I was able to demolish every boss, including Bonetail, just by using a few Power badges and a few Power Bounces (and only having max 40 HP throughout the entire thing, yet never getting a Game Over once.)

Overall, the game is fun and does have some things over the original, but I don't find it all too much better and can't decide which one I like better. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up liking the original better like I know some people here do, and I don't see why people praise this shame to the point where any game that isnt TTYD is rubbish. Anyway, that's just my rant, feel free to comment or whatever.
 
I agree with most parts of your post, really, and I prefer the original game because of those reasons.
 
It's fun, but not worth the ridiculous praise it gets.
 
well it certainly has flaws, but it still does some stuff that show that it has evolved as a sequel and as an rpg, sadly it sucks at balancing and does make some aching decisions.

Although still pretty good but i generally appreciate the first paper mario game more and super star more.
 
How would you compare to the original?
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
How would you compare to the original?
I'd say that they're pretty equal, there are a few things such as the battle system changes that I mentioned earlier as well as music that I like a lot, however it's brought down with all of those other things that I mentioned earlier.

Story-wise, I prefer the original by a decent amount, the battle system is about the same but the original has points for not being stupidly easy, Chapter-wise there were some things that I really liked about both so that's equal, with level design the original is easily better since it isn't linear hallways most of the time, with dialogue I found TTYD to be more annoying in parts (although I probably need to play 64 again to compare), graphically I like TTYD better (then again, better hardware) and music is probably equal since TTYD has some pretty good ones but the rest is pretty meh, while 64 maintains a decent quality throughout.

There are some more minor nitpicky things that I like about each more, such as the boat, plane and tube mechanic which are better than giving a whole partner for (ahem Sushie), although spinning in 64 was pretty fun and I miss that.

I'm leaning toward 64 being an overall better game but I need to think about it more.
 
I feel like one of these days I should probably write some sort of summary of why I like TTYD.
 
I do like TTYD's battle system a lot more than 64's for giving you more options to defend yourself, as well as the better inventory

And yeah, since I played TTYD before 64, I can't really comment on the structure of the game being lifted from 64, but I'll just say sometimes doing the same thing in a sequel because it worked really well the first time is the way to go (from the perspective of someone who still hasn't fully played 64, I thought everywhere in TTYD was a really cool and inventive place to go)


What always appealed to me about TTYD was how you eventually tie up all the loose ends with the NPCs and discover they all have backstories and reasons for being there. Drunk guy in the Inn singing? Random Puni in the underworld? Mob boss Pianta? I don't know about you but it was really satisfying to have just fruity background characters suddenly be the reason the plot is moving forward, almost as if this is a real quest all over the world that you have to do a little investigating to get help with.

Also, really good soundtrack

One thing I don't really care for is having to do the funny little movements every time if you wanted Stylish moves, but otherwise, I found the battle system to be pretty cool with the audience mechanic.
 
Yapyap said:
I feel like one of these days I should probably write some sort of summary of why I like TTYD.

Well have at it dude, nothing truely wrong with the game in my opinion.

It's certainly not truely bad anyway.
 
I still love TTYD. It is a masterpiece. I actually beat the game before it became 10 years old. It was back in 2014.
Nice job.
 
Well, I actually liked TTYD, even though after playing the original Paper Mario I realized how much of it was copypasted (e.g. the first two partners, the 1st chapter the 8th chapter, most of the battle system and badges as well as basic game mechanics).
I'd agree with the random aspects in battles, they could have been avoided while still keeping the interesting part of the audience system (the idea that you have to do the right things in a stylish way to fill bars to use special powers, while being slow or doing the wrong things makes you lose the audience).
Regarding the Super Guard, as broken as it might be, I'd say that I actually liked it a lot, in fact, I think that it would work very well with the perfect victory idea of Color Splash (no damage) and that Wendy's battle would have been a lot funnier if she had a lot of HP and did a lot more damage with her attacks, forcing you to use the Super Guard at the right time. Then, of course, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam's speedruns without instant battle glitch showed how being able to easily dodge all attacks might really break even the fights with bosses that, looking at the stats, should outright win, so the right balance should be found.
I don't know about the dialogue part, I liked it at the time, but I played it many years ago and furthermore the Italian script is a bit more faithful to the Japanese one in some parts, even the censored ones (Mario being "giustiziere degli inferi" on chapter 3, Flurrie being a goddess of the wind), so we might be really looking at two different scripts.
I must also say that I'm not necessarily irritated by backtracking, as long as the areas aren't just full of empty parts and you keep discovering new areas that add something meaningful, admittedly TTYD goes a bit far with this, as already to go into the various places you have to spend quite a bit of time in the Sewers every time; of course MiniYoshi helps a lot, the additional paper abilities are also nice in terms of opening new paths, I wonder why SPM has less of them and in the end only Paper Jam reused them.
Anyway, you know that ultimately what I really like about that game were the settings: already chapter 1 looked refreshing, also thanks to its soundtrack, and in general there were either well-thought, not predictable settings or well-made familiar settings, I even liked the moon with its moving background and the X-Naut fortress. Of course, chapter 6 still is my favorite in this sense, I even just liked looking at the background seen from the Excess Express, especially at night. And Riverside Station is still one of the most memorable places of the series for me (ok, I have yet to play Color Splash, that fortunately seem to be returning to interesting settings).

Finally, I agree with your suggestion, I already posted this in another forum but if we look at how the first three Paper Mario games were, I noticed this:

  • Paper Mario: set in the Mushroom kingdom, many familiar species and the new ones blend well, it definitely has the charm typical of the Mario universe's settings
  • Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door: set in Mario's world, but in a different place, with Rogueport being quite often the opposite of the typical setting in Mario's world, still many familiar species, many more new species that are not necessarily related to the familiar ones, but still blend with the visual style
  • Super paper Mario: Mario's world is seen in like the first five minutes of the game and then good-bye; there is a new visual style seen both in the locations and in the characters with a love for simple geometric shapes that make the paper characters stand out as if they were out of place (and maybe this was actually the aim of the designers)
I can see that this pattern couldn't go on without the Paper Mario series risking to become a series in which at Intelligent Systems they just develop their own game with a distinct artistic direction, and then put Mario and Co. in there just because; I suspect Miyamoto saw that too and wanted to make sure that the new games in the series were instead deeply rooted in the Mario universe, although I think that with Sticker Star the approach was on the opposite extreme.
 
Nabber said:
you insulted flavio so i can't take any of your argument seriously
I just watched The Adventures of Flavio and I take back everything that I said about him.

Mister Wu said:
Yeah we seem to have the same ideas, despite its flaws Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is still a good game. Regarding Super Guarding, I wouldn't mind if it made you take less damage or something because it's fun to pull off and not a bad idea, but it's just way too powerful. The dialogue is pretty good at times, I liked pretty much everything that Goombella said, though a few times I'll be reading it thinking "this is pointless/stupid" and skip it without missing anything. So it was good about half of the time, although again we're comparing different languages so it could be pretty different.

Also to list some more positive things about the game, I like how it uses Paper abilities, they're pretty clever and are good since they don't require you to use a different partner. I also like how enmities hold items and badges, it's interesting and allows me to hunt for badges, which I find pretty fun. The pit of 100 trials is also pretty fun, it offered at least some challenge and badge hunting makes it even better.
 
Congratulations dude; PMTTYD is my favourite game. I agree with everything you said. :D
 
every game has flaws though, and your love of the positives that could just overwhelm all the negatives.
 
Yapyap said:
I feel like one of these days I should probably write some sort of summary of why I like TTYD.

As an individual thread or a response to this one?

Thanks for reading.
 
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