The removal of trophies.

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I believe this deserves its own discussion thread.



My rambling thoughts:

I don't necessarily care about character confirmations or deconfirmations. I mean, I do, but the inclusion of a character or the lack of inclusion is not enough to stop me from not getting Ultimate.

Do you know what is, though? The one thing I never thought in a million years would happen, and it has to do with the removal of a feature most people don't care too much about: trophies.

The removal of trophies really pisses me off and makes me not want to buy this game.

I am a casual player. Unlocking trophies was one of my favorite parts of any Smash game (sans 64, of course.) Furthermore, playing through classic/all-star mode and unlocking the trophies of playable characters gave the game a lot of replay value to me. Discovering the playstyle of characters I've never even thought of playing before.

That feeling of completion when you unlock a trophy was made even sweeter by the flavor text that accompanied it in the trophy menu. You know, the trophy's description - there was something so satisfying about it; even if the trophy is for a character or item you know like the back of your hand.

Trophies were also just a neat collectable that inspired the completionst in me. It was fun collecting as many as I could - maybe, just maybe, I'd get all of them if I tried hard enough.

These replacements - Spirits. I will admit that we don't know the full extent to how they will replace trophies. For example: how many are there? Will there be flavor text descriptions?

But, so far, it's looking like an absolutely awful addition, as though they didn't think how it would affect the game. For example, I don't see much reason for playing Classic and All-Star mode anymore if we don't get character trophies. Maybe they'll introduce character spirits you get in the same way? Who knows.

This whole rant may seem petty and maybe downright ridiculous, but to me the trophy system was something really special. Now it's been turned into some sort of sticker/sm4sh equipment amalgamation that is not, in my opinion, a suitable replacement.

All I know for sure right now is that I'm not as hyped for this game as I once was.

What about you, Super Mario Boards? What's your opinion on the removal of trophies? Do you think it isn't that big of a deal?
 
I was completely indifferent toward their existence (the "I didn't even step in Smash 4's trophy room even once" kind of indifference) and I'm glad they put the ressources that would've gone toward them toward stuff I might actually care about.
 
This is the lamest shit they've ever pulled. What the fuck is this?
 
Not a fan of the removal of trophies at all. I thought they were neat, even if most of them in Smash 4 were just model rips from 3D games.

edit: im just really surprised they went with something thats just essentially glorified stickers

it saves money and time because they could literally use years old artwork (something nintendo is notorious about when it comes to the mario series at least) instead of modeling a trophy, but man the removal of trophies really does put a damper on the my excitement
 
Not a fan of removed trophies either. And no, not only because I get to collect and oogle at them and read their descriptions, but if you guys know our Smash 4 mods, we enjoy modifying their descriptions to say something cynical. I love games that take their time to write little amusing blurbs, and the more funny, colloquial, and cynical they are (like the descriptions of the treasure in Wario: Master of Disguise or the geode/jewel collectibles in Spore), the more I'll love collecting them.

The spirits system, imo, is really just stickers/equipment but with character faces on them. It's laughable how they say in the direct that this is the closest thing we can get as our most wanted in the game, when all they're represented as is a little proprietary 2d dds image on the screen (and also mods in general laugh at this sort of thing like it did with Mii Fighters being "representative"). As least with trophies, they're 3D and original posed models, and I got a cute little Baby Luigi trophy for once.
 
Russian Baby Luigi said:
It's laughable how they say in the direct that this is the closest thing we can get as our most wanted in the game, when all they're represented as is a little proprietary 2d dds image on the screen (and also mods in general laugh at this sort of thing like it did with Mii Fighters being "representative").
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To be fair, they also have the special battle that goes with it that is meant to simulate fighting the character. It's weird and doesn't totally work (you have to use your imagination like he said), but it's better than plain stickers would be.
 
It's kinda funny how he said that we have to use our imagination fighting the character, when that's stuff we already subconsciously do, with or without the game or spirits mode (I mean when we fantasize about our favorite characters, they would be in there beating up another asshole). I don't really buy that and it doesn't fill that hole I have for my wanteds, not at all even.

Well it's just me and my stupid opinion. Can't speak for everyone on here.
 
I was disappointed by the removal of trophies. I fully expected them to be in, but they decide to remove them in place of these new things called Spirits. I don't see what's wrong with having both Trophies and Spirits, really.

But I'm still getting Ultimate ASAP because something something World of Light something something stars Kirby something something.
 
While the trophies were nice to look at, they can take up a good amount of space on a game disc or game card. Less effort is needed to reuse old artworks, and they'd use less memory as well.
 
Pretty indifferent. I'll at least get something out of spirits gameplay wise.
 
If Spirits has 8-player Smash support, then that's going to be really fine and dandy.
 
Honestly I liked the idea. Lakitu spirit seemed creative too, having Iggy, the guy who looks most like a Lakitu fight alongside tiny red Bowsers, who are the Spinies. Say what you want, but the idea is still a creative one.
 
Genuinely really loved collecting trophies in every past game and their removal is probably the most disappointing thing about Ultimate for me. I can understand why they didn't come back here, but I'll still miss them
 
Lack of trophies is the one thing more disappointing than Giga Bowser's "moveset." That being said, I'll still get the game, though I predict there will be a lot of hollowness to it. It'll also likely make it the first Smash game I've played to not cause my interest in another franchise to pique, without the information there to read when I'm too tired to actually play.

The spirit thing is, at its core, just an expansion of the sticker concept, which were only really useful for trying to get trophy stands for trophies anyway. Because I didn't wanna get rid of them through using them >.>

I considered trophies the best part of Melee through Wii U, as they were an actual incentive. They weren't a burden on gameplay, they were a reason to actually attain goals.

I do find it ironic that Assist Trophies still exist, and outnumber the Pokeball Pokemon in this game, despite there not being any actual trophies.
 
Smasher said:
Genuinely really loved collecting trophies in every past game and their removal is probably the most disappointing thing about Ultimate for me. I can understand why they didn't come back here, but I'll still miss them
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this

melee's trophies were wild and i loved the fact that they talked about weird obscure series i'd never know about (hello famicom detective club, doshin the giant, cubivore, card hero, custom robo...) and there's a reason i've thrown myself so hard at it that i got to 289

brawl's trophies, while not AS obscure sadly enough, still pulled from a lot of weird shit

never played smash 4

but yeah i'm legit gonna miss them hard, i get why they got cut (sheer quantity + focusing on other stuff) but i still woulda loved learning about all these wild and crazy things via a trophy
 
Maybe we still can and we still haven't seen that yet.

There's gotta be a description somewhere for each one of them, right?
 
The worst part to me is that visually, Spirits are just pasted artwork from original games like Stickers were. Whereas trophies were full models and had a neat bio description on each one. I was really looking forward to who might be getting a new model in the trophy gallery this time, so in that sense it's disappointing.
 
I suppose that, with a series like Smash, creating something larger and larger with every iteration means eventually something will have to give. With the aim of creating the ultimate roster, it makes sense that they decided to cut trophies.

It's understandable, but still extremely disappointing. Trophies made Smash a great gateway series. Come for the series you know, and all of a sudden you're awash in information about all sorts of fascinating characters and games. I loved that experience with Melee, Brawl, and, to a lesser extent, 4 (Hi Xenoblade!). Smash will still be that gateway series, but I feel it's going to be missing something. It's great for people who know the cameos in the Spirits, but, if you don't know who it is, it's going to require a little more work to find out which I fear might discourage people from getting interested in new series.

That all said, I’m cautiously excited for Spirits. The mode seems like a great way to represent a huge number of characters that should hopefully exceed the extent to which other characters were represented in the past. I’m still holding out hope that the Spirits come with flavour text like trophies, to at least make them more accessible for people. I will say, I think it's wonderful that they're creatively channeling these characters through the roster and I’m excited to see how they choose to represent the essence of all of these characters. Seeing the Pokémon Trainer summon a Lapras spirit to cross the sea in World of Light also gave me hope that at least a fair number of the Spirits will have fun and unique roles in the adventure mode, even if as simple as unique map interactions like glorified HMs. I like to think that, with Spirits, Sakurai is really trying to give as many characters as possible a place in Smash, so, we’ll see how it goes.

I wish they were trophies, but I’ll take Spirits and hope for the best with them.
 
It...sort of sucks. I never actually touched the trophies in Brawl because i didnt give two fucks about them and I didnt play enough Maylay/64 to really get a chance at them then. In Smash 4 however, I did put a little time into trying to unlock them although i feel like the descriptions had some wasted potential. Particulary the smash runs enemies just being strats on how to kill them instead of interesting or neat info about their actual appearances outside of smash. Still a pretty neat concept though that I would've spent a bit more time on if I hadnt pretty much played online exclusively lol.

That said, spirits, especially in reference to lifelight mode, are gonna be way better and interesting. The simple gear effects alone will actually give me motivation to care about them while im playing the game rather than a passing fancy when i'm bored as fuck. I'm also a pretty curious person so i'll definitely be looking up the powers of certain characters from series i'm not familiar with to see why their spirit has x power. And in the world of light mode the events system is gonna...actually feel like whatever character it is is getting some kind of representation in actual gameplay rather than some collectible that'll just rot in a corner to never be touched.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that some spirits have dialogue, shockingly enough. I remember seeing Doc Louis, Cap'n Cuttlefish, a Mega Man boss (not sure which), and I think an Animal Crossing character with textboxes. I imagine not every spirit will have this, but if a significant number do, that will be pretty cool and possibly even better than descriptions as long as what they say matches their personality (which seems to be the case so far).
 
That dialogue seems to be for doing certain things with spirits. Like Doc Louis runs the dojo where you train your spirits.
 
it's kinda lame, considering i'm probably not doing to deal with spirits all that much just like I didn't with custom moves in 4

but at the same time, once I was done with melee, I really didn't get that invested in trophies anymore, so like whatever

I'll just spend the time learning the dozens of characters I don't know now I guess (but now without trophies for using them in single player modes :'( )
 
Well I wasn't surprised for there to be no trophies. Adding trophies and spirits would take a TON more time and would be very hard to put in the trophies. If there is no trophies in the next Smash game, if it ever happens, the reason will be the spirits.
 
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