Mario games that are the best and the worst

Mamoru endou

Mamoru endou

Koopa Troopa
Ever since I joined this forum, I wanted to ask you which games in the Mario series is good and which ones are bad, list them below
 
Good: Mario's Early Years CD Rom collection.
Bad: Everything else
The worst: Super Paper Mario Splash: The Sticker King Door.
 
Here's mine
Good: donkey Kong, donkey Kong Jr, Mario Bros, all three of the Super Mario Bros games for the NES, all of the Super Mario Land games (including the Wario Land games), Super Mario world, Super Mario all-stars, Super Mario kart, Super Mario 64, Mario party, and all of GBA remakes.
Bad: Super Mario world 2 Yoshi's island, Mario teaches typing, hotel Mario, Super Mario Bros(gbc), Super Mario Sunshine.
Worst: any port of either donkey Kong or Mario Bros for the Atari 2600
 
Mamoru endou said:
Bad: Super Mario world 2 Yoshi's island
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Genuinely curious as to why you consider a game that's often considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest games ever made to be bad.

Like I'm not asking 'WTf how can yu not like Yoshi island it BEST GAME EVER??????' but genuinely do wanna know, always interesting to see when someone dislikes a generally widely liked game (or likes a generally widely disliked game).
 
Princess Viola said:
Genuinely curious as to why you consider a game that's often considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest games ever made to be bad.

Like I'm not asking 'WTf how can yu not like Yoshi island it BEST GAME EVER??????' but genuinely do wanna know, always interesting to see when someone dislikes a generally widely liked game (or likes a generally widely disliked game).
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It tried to do something different with the franchise with baby Mario riding on Yoshi, don't get me wrong, I love the cute green dinosaur when he made his debut in Super Mario world, then for the next game they decided to make him the main character, baby sitting Mario who is a baby, thankfully when they made Super Mario 64, Mario is back to being a main character
 
Super Mario World 2 Yoshis Island is a mid platformer.
 
Princess Viola said:
Genuinely curious as to why you consider a game that's often considered a masterpiece and one of the greatest games ever made to be bad.
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the game doesn't particularly impress me and while i played yoshi's island ds before this one, which others might condemn me for this "mistake", this one doesn't seem that much better than yoshi's island ds (except the soundtrack maybe) to the point i'm interested in playing it at all. it's a "been there done that" thing and it seems like all the parts of yoshi's island ds i didn't like, such as transformations, skiing,, the collection (especially the collection, egh) are retained in this game. heck yids's boss fight is the strongest (and underrated) part of the game (nothing quite matches the intensity of the noise gilbert the gooey makes when defeated) and this one's boss fights have some stinkers from what i've seen.
 
Best: TTYD / SPM. Honourable mentions to PM64 and the first 4 M&L games.

Worst: I still probably have to say Sticker Star / Colour Splash. They aren't really terrible games in a vacuum, but I detest the complete 180 on a series that was going amazingly beforehand. Paper Jam would be an honourable mention too because it crosses over PM and M&L only to have a game that has 1 original character (Starlow) from both series combined, but that is barely above SS / CS due to its gameplay (Toad missions suck though).
 
Yoshi's Island is literally what people who hate collectathons think those type of games are like. A bunch of random items and numbers to get all of before the end of level. It just feels really arbitrary and meaningless, things to collect for the sake of having things to collect.

best game is Mario Kart Wii every time baybee let's fucking goooooo
 
incredible strawman, I literally brought up collectathons as a point of comparison as I greatly enjoy those games, but no clearly I hate collecting things in video games and not that I don't enjoy how Yoshi's Island does it.
 
New Island fixes the collection issues I had in the original and DS (where the game knows you collected all red coins or had all stars when you beat the level) and same with Wooly World and beyond. It also got rid of the boring bonus challenges too, which sucked because they wasted your time and the only thing you wanted are like, specific special items (and the only one that is useful is the magnifying glass and extra stars).

New Island also condensed the awkward vehicle sections into a linear obstacle course and had no terrible skiing too.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
the game doesn't particularly impress me and while i played yoshi's island ds before this one, which others might condemn me for this "mistake", this one doesn't seem that much better than yoshi's island ds (except the soundtrack maybe) to the point i'm interested in playing it at all. it's a "been there done that" thing and it seems like all the parts of yoshi's island ds i didn't like, such as transformations, skiing,, the collection (especially the collection, egh) are retained in this game. heck yids's boss fight is the strongest (and underrated) part of the game (nothing quite matches the intensity of the noise gilbert the gooey makes when defeated) and this one's boss fights have some stinkers from what i've seen.
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To be fair I think SMW2s level design might be better, the Fort of Moltz the Very Goonie is a pretty awfully designed level and the special levels are stupidly long compared to the short ones in SMW2, Yoshi Tower is an egregiously stupid level because it has a restrictive star count and a Winged Cloud that literally can spew your stars offscreen.
 
incredible strawman, I literally brought up collectathons as a point of comparison as I greatly enjoy those games, but no clearly I hate collecting things in video games and not that I don't enjoy how Yoshi's Island does it.
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it's being brought up as a reason for the game being "mid" even though it's an entirely optional part of the game. the tedious side of that is that you're required to collect everything again in a level if you miss even a single star/flower/red coin, otherwise i found them quite fun to seek out--exploration isn't necessarily the game's stated goal, but it certainly dignifies it.

also pretty much any platform game has "a bunch of arbitrary items to collect" if you think about it lol. there's little point in collecting dragon coins in Super Mario World or KONG letters in Donkey Kong Country when all they give you is a measly 1-up, yet they're there, because collecting things is fun.

i'd say Donkey Kong 64 is a much more degenerate example of a collectathon. now that game makes you work for tens of hours and the fact that most collectibles actually fulfill a role (rather than being just random numbers or something) doesn't work in the game's favor. the reward should generally be the collection of these items itself, and whatever else the game imposes on you that is tied to that should come as an addition.
 
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Ray Trace said:
To be fair I think SMW2s level design might be better, the Fort of Moltz the Very Goonie is a pretty awfully designed level and the special levels are stupidly long compared to the short ones in SMW2, Yoshi Tower is an egregiously stupid level because it has a restrictive star count and a Winged Cloud that literally can spew your stars offscreen.
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yoshi's island ds has a few bad levels but the original game's design collection fundamentals is not appealing at all and i still have no desire to play it.

ive seen people deride odyssey and galaxy 2 a lot in these threads but it seems like stating a dislike or ambivalence for the original yoshi's island strikes a chord more often than other games
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
ive seen people deride odyssey and galaxy 2 a lot in these threads but it seems like stating a dislike or ambivalence for the original yoshi's island strikes a chord more often than other games
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if that game is controversial at all, i'd frame it as simply a matter of taste. yoshi's island is slower and has more focus on exploration than your typical mario game. there are a lot of small puzzles and other stop-and-go moments that often lead to places that divert you from a level's main course, and the lack of a timer gives you this freedom to finish the level at your own pace.

the game has problems. among them, the oft-mentioned poor implementation of the 100% completion system (but not the collectables themselves) and the minigames being kinda boring and forgettable. the worst criticisms i've seen of this game, however, seem to stem from a misunderstanding of what it actually is. despite its full title, it's not Super Mario World: platforming precision and momentum-based movement isn't the point of the game. a game like Yoshi's New Island tries to achieve this compromise where you still have these stop-and-go moments in a more streamlined level environment, which is why i see how some people may prefer this game over the original, but to outright call the original a "bad" game (a pretty loaded attribute when games like what you see on AVGN exist) has always felt disingenuous and contrarian to me.
 
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Koopa con Carne said:
even though it's an entirely optional part of the game
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A good amount of levels are locked behind it (specifically the special levels), it really depends on what criteria you'd define as "optional" because we play through games differently. I'd say even optional parts should be fun though.

Koopa con Carne said:
but to outright call the original a "bad" game (a pretty loaded attribute when games like what you see on AVGN exist) has always felt disingenuous and contrarian to me.
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maybe but

eh

then again I reacted badly when people said the best RPG ever, Partners in Time was a bad game when it's NOT a bad game!
 
Mamoru endou said:
It tried to do something different with the franchise with baby Mario riding on Yoshi, don't get me wrong, I love the cute green dinosaur when he made his debut in Super Mario world, then for the next game they decided to make him the main character, baby sitting Mario who is a baby, thankfully when they made Super Mario 64, Mario is back to being a main character
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Reasons like this are why Donkey Kong games aren't worth playing because you play as Donkey Kong and is also the sole contributing reason Donkey Kong Country 2 and 3 are better than Donkey Kong Country.

Reasons like this are also why Wario games are worth playing because you know, it's Wario.
 
I really liked Mario wonder, it was good, I wish the characters had their moves but it makes sense why, so overall great game
 
Koopa con Carne said:
if that game is controversial at all, i'd frame it as simply a matter of taste. yoshi's island is slower and has more focus on exploration than your typical mario game. there are a lot of small puzzles and other stop-and-go moments that often lead to places that divert you from a level's main course, and the lack of a timer gives you this freedom to finish the level at your own pace.
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i like taking levels slowly and backtracking so i found smb2 to be very appealing, at least the advance version where some may even deride the somewhat cryptic yoshi eggs. yoshi's island's biggest issue is the red coins, it really doesn't need to be there and it just stresses me out in like harder levels. yeah there's a tint in the older game whereas in ds it's just trial and error. doesn't make them much better in the old game, as my sister said you need a magnifying glass or something, but why require an item for this? at least star coins/flowers are much more identifiable. star points are also needlessly a collectible but i guess they're the real challenge of boss fights since you practically can't die in them in so many cases. reminds me of epic yarn... a game i liked more than yoshi's island ds mind you.
 
SMW2 has the star item that lets you replenish stars though. Also when you miss a collectible in like, the skiiing area, it's very common to players to kill themselves in order to get it; you can't really do this in New Island IIRC because it resets your star count, so in something like Chomp Rock Challenge, when you kill yourself because you missed the a flower in the Chomp Shark segment, you can't get full star count when you reach the end of the level so thank god you don't have to collect everything in one go.

Red coins imo aren't really that cryptic based off my time in YNI. Hidden winged clouds that spawn spring balls or other shit might be annoying though but usually their location is fine. However, there was the last flower in Touch Fuzzy Get Dizzy where I need a guide to find and I found that one to be cryptic.
 
Replayed and beaten Wario Land 3 recently for the second time in my life. I'm a Metroidvania enthusiast and can decree that it's a great game. Really solid and seminal in its own right.

So, the Metroid DNA of this game is obvious (HOLY SHIT WARIO AND SAMUS ARE RELATED???), especially when you consider that the two series were once developed by the same division. You begin with an extremely limited repertoire of abilities, which renders you perhaps a bit frustrated; then you feel as though you pick up tremendous feeling of confidence as you find more abilities and useful items. Many games "manufacture" this sense of frustration only to then pull you out of it with transient power-ups and other helpful items, but this state of power is only ever designed to last in Metroidvanias and RPGs--and, within our game, gives Wario's adventure a wonderful "coming of age" contour. Though greedy, Wario is also ambitious, and hustles through even the worst slumps of his journey to get what he desires. For a bleep-bloop pixelshit game for kids, it instils a subtle amount of storytelling and makes Wario quite the likeable guy.

Instead of one big, continuous environment like in 2D Metroid, this game has a bunch of discrete levels that... play out much the same on their own, except with a much more limited scope. Both in idea and execution, I find it to be a great adaption of the Metroidvania formula in a setting that outwardly resembles a typical Mario level map.

Although the first half of the game (and by that I mean, the entire part of the game you go through just to beat the main antagonist) follows pretty much just a straight line between the requisite treasures, at one point the path you can take to different treasures branches out, and, in turn, those diverge as well. You find yourself dedicating a good chunk of time following each of them to their natural conclusion. Up to the point when you confront the antagonist, you can pay visits to a mysterious temple where you're communicated where to head for next, so you don't get lost. This whole thing is mitigated when it's revealed that your benefactor was the main antagonist all along, so if you kill him and are hellbent on finding every single remaining treasure, the game offers you seldom quality-of-life assistance--that's one of the game's two obvious issues. The second issue is how cryptic some of the game's secrets can be to collect. Each level has 8 giant coins that you must collect in a single run, so you need to be well-prepared with a gamut of useful abilities and other unlocks if you wish to commit to this task. Even so, although most coins in a level are easily found, there are often one or two left that hide off-screen or behind some stupid unassuming barrier that, without online assistance, may have you to poke around every corner of the level with just about every ability under the sun. And that isn't fun.

Neither of these issues are fundamental, though (i.e., they wouldn't require uprooting the game's entire design to fix them), and the taste I'm left with after the final screen, displaying Wario's grin and thumbs up as a personal thanks to the player, is pretty good.

I give it somewhere around 9/10. May not spearhead
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the extended Mario franchise, but I deem it one of its best outings.
 
Mamoru endou said:
It tried to do something different with the franchise with baby Mario riding on Yoshi, don't get me wrong, I love the cute green dinosaur when he made his debut in Super Mario world, then for the next game they decided to make him the main character, baby sitting Mario who is a baby, thankfully when they made Super Mario 64, Mario is back to being a main character
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It sounds as though the label "Super Mario World 2" made you judge it as a core mainline Mario game, rather than a spinoff that isn't trying to be like the mainline games. Considering all the sequels dropped the "Super Mario World" label and were treated like spinoffs, I think it should be judged on that merit.

Anyway on the topic.
Best: Super Paper Mario
Worst: Paper Mario: Sticker Star

And yes that is factoring all Mario games, not just Paper Mario ones.
 
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