The "True" 2.5D Mario platformer

[OmegaRuby]

OK, so I've been thinking about this for a little bit...
Ever since I played games like Donkey Kong Country Returns and Sonic Generations (specifically its Classic stages/Act 1 stages), my perspective on a 2.5D platformer/game in general has shifted. While I was first introduced to the medium through New Super Mario Bros. Wii, I feel that the game (and the New Super Mario Bros. series and by extension Super Mario Bros. Wonder as a whole) doesn't truly take advantage of the medium and therefore, in my eyes, isn't considered a "true" 2.5D game.

Think about it - Country Returns has entire 3D environments for its levels, as well as Sonic Generations' Act 1 stages, and those take it a step further with a dynamic camera in sections of the level to make it feel 3D. The newer Shadow Generations also does this style spectacularly with its constantly shifting dynamic camera in its Act 2 stages to never bring a dull moment or evoke the feeling that you're playing a fixed, two dimensional stage in a game where its 3D gameplay shines brightest.

So far, the Mario series has only stuck strictly to its roots with the classic side-scrolling gameplay. Any modern game using that style (as of Super Mario Bros. Wonder) has its levels strictly adhere to a fixed camera with minimal 3D modeling in things like the characters, enemies, some objects, and sometimes backgrounds, whereas tilesets and most other things are 2D textures with added visual flair like normal mapping to mimic a 3D effect. The only real 3D environments showcased in these games are the world maps, which have grown more impressive over time. Not to mention New Super Mario Bros. games having even less 3D elements in favor of 2D textures, lending for a more aged look to some when you can spot visual artifacts on objects clearly making their 2D sprites obvious. You could say that this could be due to technical limitations, but I'd consider that a possibility at the very least on the DS. My first example of a "true" 2.5D game, Donkey Kong Country Returns, was released for the Wii (a year off from New Super Mario Bros. Wii, in fact!) and showcased quite impressive 2.5D visuals. Wonder takes massive strides in adding more 3D elements, and, don't get me wrong, is a gorgeous looking game - but one standout ROMhack called Beyond SMBWii has shown that a Mario game with "true" 2.5D visuals can work, and it looks fantastic. I'll embed the trailer here:

I won't praise this hack to the moon and back (oops, I rhymed), except I will - this looks gorgeous and is honestly stunning for a New Super Mario Bros. Wii hack! The more I ogle at the trailer, the more I'd really like an official game made in this style. Seriously - there's pretty much no official Mario game that plays remotely like this. Even 3D games with 2D segments - Super Mario 3D Land has a level with a goal pole area reminiscent of Super Mario Bros. with a fixed 2D camera, and Super Mario Odyssey's 2D segments are retro pipes into a Super Mario Bros.-styled world. I'll give them the pass, since they're tounge-in-cheek Super Mario Bros. references, but the modern 2.5D games don't take advantage of the 3D graphics that the hardware is capable of. I'd love to see a new Mario platformer tackle this style, especially seeing as we're entering a new creative renaissance for the series, opening new opportunities for each Super Mario Bros. game to tackle a different visual style. (Or they could stick with the groundwork Wonder lays out, but that'd make the games look particularly stale over time...)

I was wondering what the people of the Boards thought of these collected thoughts I've had. I included a poll just to see quantitative data on what you'd like to see including an option that basically says the use of 3D in the latest New/Super Mario Bros. games are enough for you to consider them "true" 2.5D games. Happy discussing!

 

[Xiahou Ba]

I have never liked the orthographic 2D tilesets that were always there and it always made the Mario games look dated in comparison to their contemporaries (like Kirby, Donkey Kong, and Sonic). It was cute when NSMBDS did it in their first entry back in the DS era but by the time Super Mario Bros. Wonder rolled around, it really lost its luster and holds the overall presentation back.

I really like how BeyondSMBWii looks, it looks quite unique with Mario gameplay and it's the type of Mario game I have been asking for years.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Indeed you're not the only one who's voiced that issue with the presentation of these platformers. The closest thing we got to a truly 2.5D Mario in a Mario platformer would be the Super Mario 3D World parts of Super Mario Maker 2. I'll provide examples just to illustrate Nintendo has accomplished this before. But even with the added perspective, the levels still have something I don't like in common, which is the "adhered to a strict tileset" feel.

There is also a couple Mario Party games that also gave me a good idea what a truly 2.5d Mario game might look like.

And finally one more example, this mod for Kirby's Return to Dream Land

(if you like the 2.5D style, @OmegaRuby, I would recommend trying out some Kirby platformers too! Kirby and the Crystal Shards also does this to a more drastic degree, with full on camera pans and whatnot to make it look even more 3D)

Super Mario Bros. Wonder is a solid game overall and the emphasis on the cartoony-ness of the models, animations and sound effects work extremely well and lend to a memorable experience, but unlike some people who found the graphics stunning, I always found the graphics part to be a little lacking and inconsistent and it lent to a lukewarm first impression. I certainly wouldn't recommend this game for the graphics if someone is looking to see something hardware pushing or at least something well put together and extraordinarily pleasant (Kirby's Epic Yarn for instance, isn't system pushing but looks so nice I would say its presentation is a notable part of the game's strengths; helps that this game has a good soundtrack). They tried to go for a 2Dish stylization but they didn't push it far enough, especially with the environment and its function-over-style formations, its "manufactured" sharp and tileset-like angles, and the emphasized rimlighting everything has, so everything lends to a really tacked-on feel.

Furthermore, the promotional art of the game doesn't even advertise the slight art style differences so it lends further support for a really strange disconnect that feels uncommitted to this art style.

So yeah I'd be looking greatly forward to a 2D Mario that moves to something like Beyond SMBWii, which has been a graphical style I've been asking for years. My opinion is that if they want to use 3D they should take better advantage of 3D's advantage than try to use 3D as an advancement but keep the 2D tilesets to perhaps to appeal to nostalgia. Or, they can stick to 2D. As I've been asking for years, why not made an entire Mario game in 2D but use their promotional 2D art style, all beautifully animated? And even if they stick to 2D, I don't think tilesets work to Mario's advantage any more, as 2D games like Rayman Origins and Legends or Ori and the Blind Forest lack these harsh angles, these impossibly orthographic perspectives, and perfectly 45 degree slopes, and tend to benefit from more natural environments.