Toad, a worthy candidate for SSB4 (reasons and moveset provided).

Raphael said:
Baby Luigi said:
Toad has been around much longer than Yoshi has. So why doesn't Peach or Bowser have his/her own series?
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I agree that Peach is questionable, but Bowser...uh, he's the villain, 'nuff said.
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It could be a series about him destroying Mushroom Kingdom
 
There are still too many Mario reps regardless. Most people would rather see someone who isn't from the Mario series included. I'm even against Waluigi because we have enough Mario people already. If the roster is huge (say around 50) then I have no problem with Toad. But the fact is there are plenty of Mario reps and enough is enough.
 
I think there is one rep missing, and Toad is one of them.
 
Let me rephrase what I said earlier. Name five actual, mainstream Mario games in which Toad (the character, NOT, again, NOT just a member of his species) has played a MAJOR INDIVIDUAL role in the ACTUAL story, i. e., NOT just the same major role as someone else. Major role in the gameplay doesn't count either; I'm talking about Story.
 
The Spiked Red One said:
Let me rephrase what I said earlier. Name five actual, mainstream Mario games in which Toad (the character, NOT, again, NOT just a member of his species) has played a MAJOR INDIVIDUAL role in the ACTUAL story, i. e., NOT just the same major role as someone else. Major role in the gameplay doesn't count either; I'm talking about Story.
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Or name times where THE Yoshi played a main role in the mainstream games. Not the species. I can think of only 2 times (Yoshi Topsy Turvy and Yoshi Touch and Go)
 
His role was relatively major in Super Mario World, after all the motivation behind the story is 1. to save Peach and 2. to save Yoshi's buddies.
 
Actually, that was his species, not THE Yoshi
 
His species does appear, but the first Yoshi to appear, the one who talks to you, is THE Yoshi. That's his house in the game.
 
I don't know how big his role is, but his species does more work than him himself
 
But you can't deny that he does have a major story role. Especially as every time you beat a world boss you get another Yoshi egg, and at the end of the game you can see them all hatch.
 
The Spiked Red One said:
Let me rephrase what I said earlier. Name five actual, mainstream Mario games in which Toad (the character, NOT, again, NOT just a member of his species) has played a MAJOR INDIVIDUAL role in the ACTUAL story, i. e., NOT just the same major role as someone else. Major role in the gameplay doesn't count either; I'm talking about Story.
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It depends on your perception of which Mario game is "mainstream". People like Luigi play a major story role in maybe two games (Super Mario Galaxy?) in the Mario platformers. Otherwise, he is just a person who replaces Mario, but that's during the gameplay session.
 
Let me rephrase what I said earlier. Name five actual, mainstream Mario games in which Toad (the character, NOT, again, NOT just a member of his species) has played a MAJOR INDIVIDUAL role in the ACTUAL story, i. e., NOT just the same major role as someone else. Major role in the gameplay doesn't count either; I'm talking about Story.
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And since when did the story matter much to the Mario series? The Mario series is very well known for its gameplay as opposed to its story. In pretty much every mainstream Mario game, the plot goes on something like: "The hero Mario sets off on his journey to rescue the fair Princess Peach from the evil King Bowser who is attempting to rule the Mushroom Kingdom with his forces. She is saved and then rewards Mario." Nothing more than this (except for sometimes the hero is joined by his brother and a few others on his journey). Characters play their role according to the events of what is happening. Mario is the standard hero. Luigi is either the second playable hero or not there at all. Peach is kidnapped. Bowser and his forces are the villains. As the bros. go on their journey, the Toads and the Yoshis lend in their help through a variety of ways. As of Brawl, we already have the main four as well as Yoshi. Adding in Toad would complete the list of classic story mode characters.

Also you want five main games that THE Toad is in with important roles. Here you go:
*Super Mario Bros. - Toad was one of Peach's Mushroom Retainers. While his role is generic and there are other Mushroom Retainers; Toad is most associated with one of the most famous video game quotes there are to exist in history (I'm pretty sure you know which one). Then again, the older games provided very little story and development of the characters; so, Toad could not do much from this role.
*Super Mario Bros. 2 - The game that differentiated Toad very much and proved that he was not useless. He is one of the four, main playable characters in this game. This puts him on a level very much close to the Mario Bros. and Princess Peach.
*Super Mario Bros. 3 - Toad may be an NPC, but he was the only helpful one in the game. It was as though he was your only friend to assist you as you journey onward as either Mario or Luigi. Peach is kidnapped early on, the Kings were useless, Yoshi did not exist...so, yeah. Toad was the guy.
*Super Mario Galaxy - Everyone remembers the Toad Brigade, and Toad happens to be the self oriented leader of this group. It is confirmed that he is this Toad due to various game biographies, card bios, and his Japanese name being used in the developers' interviews about the game. The Toad Brigade played an important role as comic relief in the game and actually journeyed alongside Mario to retrieving the Power Stars. Toad also provided a few for Mario.
*Super Mario Galaxy 2 - Toad and the Toad Brigade appeared very frequently in this game as well. There was even a mission dedicated to Toad himself (the Fluffy Bluff Galaxy one). Again, Toad also obtained a few stars for Mario. Additionally, he and the other Toads were put on a level of importance near even Luigi and Yoshi (Mario's other assisting friends).

There...5 games with him playing important roles. Is this enough? He also appeared in Super Mario 64, and Super Mario Sunshine though his roles were smaller in these games (yet, he still made a noteworthy appearance in this game). Also even look at Super Mario 64 DS. Toad interacts very differently with each character and can even find their caps if they lost it. He also tells you the back story in this game (as well as in the original). These appearances overall makes Toad a very active character in the main games.

Additionally, let us look at his species.
*Super Mario Bros. - What I said for Toad can equally be said here as Toad was one of the Mushroom Retainers.
*Lost Levels - SMB with more Toads to save. They appeared in the ending as well. Toad can also be applied here himself.
*Super Mario 64 - While Toad's own role can be dismissed; the Toads as a whole were pretty important. They risked their lives to provide Mario with a few of the Castle's secret stars and provided hints at any time they could. Also they were pretty much everywhere in the castle.
*Super Mario Sunshine - Small hints made the Toads pretty useless in this game. Yes, I do admit to that. Regardless, they were still in the game.
*New Super Mario Bros. Wii -...Toads were everywhere. In the multiplayer mode, you have Toads as playable characters. In the single player, you had to save them. Also they ran the Toad Houses. I'm pretty sure that it is hard to ignore the Toads in this game as they were very important. I'll list the significance of the Mario spin-off games and Toads later on.

@Jack Noir

Good point! We do have quite a lot of Mario characters as of now. However, my point is that we did not receive a true Mario rep since Melee. There is a reason why game developers separated Wario, DK, and Yoshi from the Mario series, and I think that adding one or two reps for the Mario series would not hurt that bad. Toad is one of my hopes.
 
Other series games that Toad is in:
*Wario's Woods - Toad's first solo starring role. Enough said here.
*Luigi's Mansion - Toad saved Luigi's progress here and was one of the few Mario series characters to appear from older games.
*Mario vs Donkey Kong series - Mini Toad toys are inspired by Toad himself and they are pretty much second in importance of the minis (first is Mini Mario of course).
*Super Princess Peach - Toad himself is kidnapped with Mario and Luigi in the intro. Additionally, Toad is a playable character in two of the three minigames.

Spin-offs and sports (not complete):
*Mario Kart series - Toad is playable in every game since the start. One of the important characters in this series.
*Mario Party series - Toad is the main host for the first few games, and is then a regular playable character since Mario Party 5.
*Mario Baseball series - Toad and his species are playable team members. Toad himself is important in both intros/stories.
*Mario Tennis series - Toad is playable in the first two games, and makes noteworthy cameos in Power Tennis (may be a beta character with Toadette due to intro).
*Mario Golf - While never playable, he received many cameos such as calling out the OB and appearing on the screen whenever the player golfs (much like a host like status).
*Dance Dance Mario... - I don't know how noteworthy this game is, but Toad played a very important role in this game as Mario or Luigi's sidekick.
*Mario and Sonic series - a main ref along with Cream. Had a big role in the ds version of the winter games (story mode).
*Mario Sports Mix - playable character and only Mario series newcomer.
 
Propeller Toad said:
*Super Mario Bros.
*Super Mario Bros. 2
*Super Mario Bros. 3
*Super Mario Galaxy
*Super Mario Galaxy 2
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I wouldn't say that his role in those games was "major", but that's really up to personal opinion.

Propeller Toad said:
@Jack Noir

Good point! We do have quite a lot of Mario characters as of now. However, my point is that we did not receive a true Mario rep since Melee. There is a reason why game developers separated Wario, DK, and Yoshi from the Mario series, and I think that adding one or two reps for the Mario series would not hurt that bad. Toad is one of my hopes.
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Yeah, it all boils down to how many new spaces there are.
 
I wouldn't say that his role in those games was "major", but that's really up to personal opinion.
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Well it is your own take on it. However, you must agree that it is pretty hard to not notice Toad's presence in these games especially. :)

Also, yes, the amount of spots available in this game is important to seeing whether Toad can get in.

To keep going with my list (sorry I just need to note his extra appearances since some requested it):

Mario RPG:
*Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - Toad himself was a pretty important story mode character in this game. He appeared in the beginning and helped you during this part. He then made many cameos and even ran a shop in Bowser's keep. A pretty big role for a NPC character.
*Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Toad was actually playable in this game. Who knows why, but he did receive a playable role in the intro and this is pretty noteworthy.
*Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time - Toad appears to be the Toad who is with Mario and the gang during the events of the time machine and etc. While all the other Toads flee, Toad himself appears to stay with the group. He compliments on Luigi's jumps and beside Prof. E. Gadd for the rest of the game. He even appears in the ending during the time when Bowser swallows the shroob mushroom and he also appears in many of the cutscenes (check the ending one; has one Toad only). While his role is minor; it is nice to see Toad himself referenced like this in front of all the other Toads in the game. Also for the Toads, the capturing of their VIM was essential to the storyline; so, the Toads were important as a whole.
*Super Paper Mario - a very definite and confirmed appearance of Toad himself. While Toads appeared in all the Paper Mario games as NPCS, Toad makes an appearance in the intro. He even has his own catch card. Also I think there is a mini-game with Toads there as well.
*Satella-Q - a very unknown game that was released on the satellaview for the Famicon. Apparently, Toad is the main character in this game (another starring role).

Extra:
*Fortune/Itadaki Street Wii and DS series - cross-over between Mario and the Dragon Quest series. Interestingly, Toad appears in both games as a playable character (representing the Mario series).
*Yakuman DS - a game in Japan only and Toad is one of the playable characters.

Roles of his species that I did not mention:
*Paper Mario 3DS - While Toads appeared in every PM game, we will finally be getting a Toad as a partner in this game.
*Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story - The Blorbs were important to the story line (disease affecting the Toads), and the Toads made common appearances. Also I found it interesting that there was a Toad to represent the mic option in the main menu (why not any other character?)
*Mario vs Donkey Kong series - Toads were everywhere in this game aside from the playable Mini-Toads. Toads were pretty much the only Mario series characters in this game aside from Mario, Pauline, and DK (as well as the enemies) to appear in all of these installments.
*Mario Strikers series - Toads are playable characters in this game.
*New Super Mario Bros. DS - Appeared in the mini-games and a minor appearance in the intro.
*New Super Mario Bros. Mii - I forgot to mention this before, but Toads are playable in this game, and seeing the development for this game, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being an actual game.

Notable Cameos of Toads:
Kirby Superstar Saga - Toad was apart of the audience in both the original and the remake games in the dedede stadium.
*Chase Mii Wii U - Miis were dressed up in either Mario or Toad costumes. Notable seeing how only Mario and Toad were the only characters to use as costumes for your Miis.
*Animal Crossing series - Toad has his hat available as an accessory and a t-shirt called Toad shirt.
*3DS Mii channel - there is a Toad hat.
*Nintendo Monopoly (both) and Mario chess - Not video games, but Toad is present as a Mario series representative in all of these board games.

I don't know if I missed anything, but if I did any of you can correct me. I apologize if you found this useless, but I posted all this so people know that there is a thing known as "THE Toad" and what relevant roles he plays. Also the roles of his species.
 
Propeller Toad said:
*Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Toad was actually playable in this game. Who knows why, but he did receive a playable role in the intro and this is pretty noteworthy.
*Super Paper Mario - a very definite and confirmed appearance of Toad himself. While Toads appeared in all the Paper Mario games as NPCS, Toad makes an appearance in the intro. He even has his own catch card. Also I think there is a mini-game with Toads there as well.
*Satella-Q - a very unknown game that was released on the satellaview for the Famicon. Apparently, Toad is the main character in this game (another starring role).
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Okay if this is what you call important then apparently Toad is important.

M&L:SS - OMG TOAD'S PLAYABEL NOTEWORTHEE!!
SPM - He appeared in the intro and has a catch card so YAY HE'S AWESOME! ALL HAIL TOAD!
Satella? - Toad starred in a game that is completely unknown, but because he appeared in it the game is awesome BECAUSE HE'S AWESOME! OYAYAYAYAYAY

Seriously. Anyone else would define these as minor. Very minor.
 
@Propellor Toad:

So, uh... you're basically condensing the appearances section of the MarioWiki article with bias towards his importance?

Thanks...?
 
Okay if this is what you call important then apparently Toad is important.
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I never referred them to being important roles for Toad. I just posted them to show that there is actual proof indicating that THE Toad still exists in the games. I am aware that those are minor appearances of Toad, and I stated the important Toad roles in the first post of the game listing I made for Toad and his species. I guess I overdid it here by adding all his game roles.

So, uh... you're basically condensing the appearances section of the MarioWiki article with bias towards his importance?

Thanks...?
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That was a big mistake on my part. I did overdid the game listing in addition to my bias adding. I'll prevent from doing that again.
 
obviously not to talk about Toad himself, the staff even need to eliminate Mario characters beacause there are a bit many
so there would be no hope for Toad and all other Mario characters

so if we can only replace someone with Toad, it's hard to say
except for main hero in main games (Mario bros, Peach, Bowser), Kongs combo and Yoshi has a clear style of fighter
I think he can only replace Luigi, Wario and Diddy Kong

I dont deny his importance, but basically in Mario spinoffs he's usually an assistant when fighting or racing
 
Toad can't replace Luigi, Wario, or Diddy. Those three are beneficial to the series they belong to. Wario is the star of his series and that is why he is in (not due to his relevance in the Mario series) and Diddy is in due to his role in the DK Country series (again, not the Mario series). Luigi is more important than Toad of course, so that too is a no. However, you should note that Toad can become a rep for the Super Mario Bros. characters (characters under the mushroom logo). He is frequent and important in the mainstream Mario games and has been playable in two so far. Additionally, Toads are frequent in all genres of the Mario series and Toad himself is frequently in the spin-offs. This makes Toad a well balanced, exclusive character in the Mario series.

Also, why remove a Mario character for Toad's inclusion? We did not receive a true Mario rep in Brawl, and lost one as well from Melee. The Mario series is Nintendo's most successful series, and the SMB series is what started it all up. Toad has also been one of those characters that was there since the starting days of Super Mario Bros. and still appears to this day. Additionally, Toad has been requested since the Melee days, so his demand must at least be noticeable to Nintendo by now. This is why I think Toad has a fairy good chance of actually being a newcomer this time. No Mario removals included. ;)
 
You act as if being requested means he has a giant fanbase, while people like Ridley and Geno have huge ones. I mean, people have been asking for characters as obscure as Ephraim from FE8, who's my personal pick.

It looks to me like Nintendo plans to add more third-party characters and Brawl was just a testing ground. Did you see the list of third-parties that are going to release games on the Wii U? I wouldn't even be that surprised if Master Chief made it in.
 
Propeller Toad said:
Toad can't replace Luigi, Wario, or Diddy. Those three are beneficial to the series they belong to. Wario is the star of his series and that is why he is in (not due to his relevance in the Mario series) and Diddy is in due to his role in the DK Country series (again, not the Mario series). Luigi is more important than Toad of course, so that too is a no. However, you should note that Toad can become a rep for the Super Mario Bros. characters (characters under the mushroom logo). He is frequent and important in the mainstream Mario games and has been playable in two so far. Additionally, Toads are frequent in all genres of the Mario series and Toad himself is frequently in the spin-offs. This makes Toad a well balanced, exclusive character in the Mario series.

Also, why remove a Mario character for Toad's inclusion? We did not receive a true Mario rep in Brawl, and lost one as well from Melee. The Mario series is Nintendo's most successful series, and the SMB series is what started it all up. Toad has also been one of those characters that was there since the starting days of Super Mario Bros. and still appears to this day. Additionally, Toad has been requested since the Melee days, so his demand must at least be noticeable to Nintendo by now. This is why I think Toad has a fairy good chance of actually being a newcomer this time. No Mario removals included. ;)
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it's digressing, I think
basically it's not proper to make many single game characters in a crossover game as monopoly
but I agree Mario series have large structure / roster than other series
in proportion they can take more seats, just not pushing it too hard

back to the topic...... if the proportion is fixed and Toad must replace someone else
Luigi is poor though his importance, in main games he is a 2P who similar to his brother and lack of features, features are important for a crossover game
it also relates to Daisy as Peach's 2P counterpart (though she's not) since she's absent
at the same time, DK, Wario and Yoshi are standing for subseries
Yoshi is a little controversial as his series is still close to the origin Mario story
Diddy is easily be cut if only DK represents DK series, and other 2P like Dixie didn't come as well

in my thought, Toad's property is more close to assistant in main games and fighting spinoffs
(although I was dissapointed he lost playable chance in NSMBWii...)
maybe being sidekick or assistant is okay ?
 
maybe as an assist trophy. he would head but opponents
 
The Spiked Red One said:
Let me rephrase what I said earlier. Name five actual, mainstream Mario games in which Toad (the character, NOT, again, NOT just a member of his species) has played a MAJOR INDIVIDUAL role in the ACTUAL story, i. e., NOT just the same major role as someone else. Major role in the gameplay doesn't count either; I'm talking about Story.
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-Super Mario Bros. 2 (Playable character and an importance to the story)
-Wario's Woods (Protagonist)
-Super Mario Galaxy (The leader of the Toad Brigade, helps Mario throughout various galaxies)
-Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Same as SMG)
-Super Mario 3D Land (Ventures along with Mario to save Peach, provides him assistance during levels)
-Super Mario 3D World (Once again a playable character and a major importance story-wise, as he relives his role of being the fastest character like in SMB2)

Also, Toad's species being playable helps him even more, even if it's not THE Toad, it's still representing him by making his species playable. If this is the case, then New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Luigi U prove my point further.
 
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