Can Town (The Official Homestuck Thread)

[Walkazo]

Or this is all we're gonna get to see of the battle that actually does happen, like how the Troll's session's climax was only vaguely talked about, or how the Beta kids' tearful reunion was skipped entirely - twice...

Spoiler

What I wanna know is how/why Gamzee is in half again suddenly (doomed timeline?) and where the bunny went during the fight. And whether John later using the juju releases the souls of future him and the other other Beta kids (i.e. so they are no longer homestuck). But the only thing we can really expect to see in the last part is the conclusion of Jake's hope-splosion and the forehshadowed fate of Lil Cal - potentially linking to this thing Caliborn said much earlier about Dirk's B2 Cal:

uu: I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.
uu: BUT WHEN I LOOK DEEP INTO HIS EYES.
uu: I CAN FEEL HIM OUT THERE.
uu: IN LATER STAGES OF HIS LIFE.
uu: BY WHICH I MEAN.
uu: I CAN FEEL *MYSELF*.
uu: THROUGH HIM SOMEHOW.
uu: AS IF MY ESSENCE WILL ONE DAY BECOME.
uu: ENTANGLED WITH THE VOID.
uu: AND THEN MYSTERIOUSLY ACCESSIBLE.
uu: THROUGH MY SOFT HAPPY PAL.

Although interestingly, Dave's Bro's B1 Cal is the "later stages of [B2 Cal's] life", so maybe rather than Gamzee making him appear in Dave's Derse (which was only said, but not shown, to begin with), time shenanigans are afoot here too...

 

[Nabber]

at this point I barely understand most of what you're saying, Walkazo

i just really hope this comic doesn't come down to sealing away a demon forever, shadow queen style

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

*appears*

I am assuming this very unclimactic presentation of the final battle is just a way to establish what would have happened pre-retcon, and that the actual post-retcon final battle will be shown properly.

That way it would allow people to appreciate the changes John's antics have made more.

Aren't they all dead pre-retcon though?
It MIGHT not be what will happen though because Caliborn says he was surprised. When it will happen. In the future. Even though he SAW it unfold. Unless he really is DUMB enough to not remember.

 

[Lin Beifong]

Aren't they all dead pre-retcon though?

...

!!!

ARRRGH!!!

It's been too long, I forgot the plot.

 

[Walkazo]

It MIGHT not be what will happen though because Caliborn says he was surprised. When it will happen. In the future. Even though he SAW it unfold. Unless he really is DUMB enough to not remember.

Well, it could be momentarily "oh, this is happening now?" sorta surprise. Or he was being sarcastic, seeing as you can't see any expression on his little skull face that that point either way.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

Aren't they all dead pre-retcon though?

...

!!!

ARRRGH!!!

It's been too long, I forgot the plot.

John was alive, Rose was dead, Dave was dead, Jade was dead.

But his story also involves the other kids being alive so he can beat them, and Jake and Jane died too, not by his hand. So I doubt this is talking about the GAME OVER timeline.

 

[Lin Beifong]

Sooo, back then when Lord English was just a myth and everyone was speculating which character could be him... Lil' Cal is Lord English finally confirmed?

I mean it's always been kind of true, since LE came from Doc Scratch, who was made from Cal, but now it's 100% accurate. Also, now that LE became Cal, and Cal becomes what becomes LE, it's come full circle.

 

[SiFi]

I'm just going to keep pretending that Andrew's referencing my amazing fanfiction whenever he mentions the irony of LE being defeated in the proximity of horses.

EDIT: It took me longer than I'd care to admit to realize that the red figure who ambushed Caliborn wasn't some completely new character but ARquiusSprite (is that where the capital letters go in that name?). So didn't someone theorize that the Auto Responder was one of the components in the Magic Cue Ball, and by extension, Doc Scratch? Because this seems to relate to that.

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

So these updates just made me understand literally almost everything about English.
Hey Edo, remember when I told you about how there's this theory that Lil Hal is Doc Scratch?
Yeah.
This update pretty much confirms that.
In short, Lord English is Caliborn+Half Gamzee's (i GUESS?) soul+Arquiusprite.

I'm assuming that when Scratch was created, only Hal's soul manifested. This makes sense because Scratch is made of Lil Cal (which, again, has Calibore 1/2 Gamzee and AR in them), and the cueball, something that represents Caliborn's weakness so it somehow prevented him from manifesting. Which is why it was imperative for Scratch's head to be broken in order for English (Caliborn) to be summoned.

Also, the fact that LE could honk? Yeah, Gamzee.

The fact that he became so muscular? Equius.

Speaking of Equius:
Ironic, isn't it? If Lord English's demise would be in the proximity of some horses?
Well I don't know what degree of irony that is but i'm assuming it has something to do with Zahhak.

One more thing, Gamzee once stated that the mirthful messiahs, who represent Calliope and Caliborn, were always him
and also
MOTHERFUCKING HIM.
Which again, makes perfect sense after this update.

 

[SiFi]

So when Gamzee was prototyping all the dead trolls was he trying to make an ideal co-soul for English? Is that why he was crying when Dirk threw Lil Hal into the mix? Dang.

 

[Lumastar]

I need to catch up on this sometime.

 

[Lin Beifong]

Good luck.

Anyway, I missed the part where 1/2 Gamzee was thrown into the mix as well. Huh. I guess with him and Equius that makes Lord English part troll. Maybe that's why he's so angry. Self-hate much?

Also Marowak, aren't the mirthful messiahs supposed to be Lord English and Doc Scratch?

And the irony is probably no irony at all. It's likely Caliborn is just misusing the word. I think he did it before with Dirk.

 

[DragonFreak]

*stuff*

Good thing I have Marowak to explain everything I don't get about this comic.

And when I say everything I mean everything.

 

[2257]

yeah, things being described as ironic because they happen "in the proximity of some horses" is a running gag. there's no actual irony

http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006702
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/ACT6ACT6.php?s=6&p=008169
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/ACT6ACT6.php?s=6&p=008397

 

[Nabber]

oh well i can't complain about the horse gag, this comic could always use more horses

 

[Walkazo]

Gr8 update. Especially after I realized all the Vines had sound and went back and re-experienced the wonder of the cottony explosion on a whole new level. And of course, the "stuff clicks together into place" moments are awesome too - especially after the retcon hijinx: I've been missing the more puzzle-piecey time travel / destiny / legend stuff. Like Gamzee being the reason for the Honking stuff all along, although I would not have guessed it going in.

ARquiussprite getting involved was also a surprise, but a nice one. It certainly explains the musculature of LE - in the Cherub worldbuilding, they were shown to be reasonably buff as adults, but Caliborn stunted his natural development when he prematurely killed Calliope, so it makes sense that he'd need to work around it. I was gonna say at first, I don't see the AR = Doc thing, but then I read the full rundown of the theory, and now I'm like "omg its so true!" (although I also think it's funny that I quite like Lil Hal and ARquiussprite but still find Doc Scratch's mannerisms insufferable - they're similar, but different enough, I guess, or maybe it has to do with the context? idk)

It's been confirmed that Caliborn and LE are the same dude for a while now, but extra concrete's always good and it was cool to see how he became one with the Puppet. I should have known it'd be Dirk's soul powers and Roxy, not his own Void ring, but ah well. I wonder if Gamzee being involved also helps with newly-sober Gamzee making Cal appear in Dave's dream (or in the words of Caliborn, "SURFACING IN THE NIGHTMARES OF THE UNSUSPECTING. WEASELING ITS WAY INTO THE HEARTS OF YUCKY SHITTY CHILDREN."). ARquiussprite too, seeing as Dave's also been associated with horses (Maplehoof) and Equius, and of course, with his bro - and for that matter, ARquiussprite being part of the mix is also probably why Bro/Dirk loved Cal so much.

Which is why it was imperative for Scratch's head to be broken in order for English (Caliborn) to be summoned.

I just assumed it was more like an egg hatching, or a plant bursting from a seed, like how the rest of his emergence was like when parasitoids erupt out of their hosts' bodies. But then again, there's multiple layers to everything else involved in this whole Caliborn/Cal/Hal/Doc/Gamzee/Equius soup, so why not.

One more thing, Gamzee once stated that the mirthful messiahs, who represent Calliope and Caliborn, were always him
and also
MOTHERFUCKING HIM.
Which again, makes perfect sense after this update.

I thought the mirthful messiahs were ICP, but maybe not? Guess it depends on what happens to his other half...

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

Also Marowak, aren't the mirthful messiahs supposed to be Lord English and Doc Scratch?

That would make even more sense actually, if part of him was in Doc Scratch alongside Hal and Equius, and remained in Lord English after he was summoned.

As for Scratch's awesome attitude that you all seem to hate because of your wrongness and colossal lack of great opinion for some reason, remember that the cueball plays a great part in his character as well. And we still don't know where it came from but...well, I have this kind of sad idea after this update:

You know how jujus are supposed to trap things inside them and are also able of some kind of power? I wish to address some powers the jujus have that are a bit familiar:
Eggs' timer, that can be used to create copies of yourself, just like how Dave used his powers during the session.
Biscuits' oven, able to shrink people and make them fit inside, just like Jade's powers of space.
The cueball that might itself be a juju, can tell predictions with alarming precision, a power that a fully fledged seer of light can have.

I can't find one for John (closet one being Die's doll), but, what if inside these jujus, through some weird plot shit we have yet to witness, are the souls of Dave, Rose and Jade (and yeah, maybe John)? May seem a bit far-fetched as Rose isn't exactly OMNISCIENT, but yeah, just throwing this idea.

Also yeah I know the whole horse thing SEEMS to be not ironic but I don't trust this. Hussie fooled us before with things that CANT POSSIBLY BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY before
like betty crocker during the first acts

 

[Nabber]

yeah okay i think i've officially lost all track of this comic

 

[Lin Beifong]

I thought the mirthful messiahs were ICP, but maybe not? Guess it depends on what happens to his other half...

Nah, the ICP are false prophets. Remember, Gamzee flips out when he sees them, calling them blasphemous because they make a mockery of his religion.

I think the empress just employed them because she was feeling homesick, so appointing two batshit clowns as her chief officers/executioners made sense to her. But as a non-purpleblood she never really understood all the little nuances of the two mirthful messiahs thing, so to her it seemed correct, but to someone in the know it would come off as warped and wrong.

Bluh bluh huge teach

I was going to point out that Rose is not omniscient and that her precognition is bound to "paths that lead to situations that qualify as a victory", but then you did that yourself and now I have to think of something else.

If I go along with your theory, I believe the closest thing to John's powers would be the crowbar. Since the breath aspect seems to be synonymous with wind, and if we assume that wind can also be synonymous with freedom, then a juju that is able to break other jujus, thus liberating the souls trapped within, would make sense.

Also, speaking of Rose: Her aspect is light, which has been shown to be synonymous with fortune or luck. In that light, Clover's coin might actually be a better fit for her.

But anyway Marowak, what do you make of the fact that there's more than four objects associated with the felt? In another story I'd assume the rest are just some other random souls that will remain unmentioned, but in Hamsteak things like that usually all fit together neatly. So, where did the other souls come from?

 

[Walkazo]

Plus, the thing became intangible and was still intact as a hole in reality when Vriska & co. found it - although it disappeared after John stuck his arm in it.

Also, this album art is relevant:

Spoiler

 

[SiFi]

Could that mean the John's retcon powers are a combination of his whole team's powers or something like that? At some point he became able to become intangible by turning into wind or something like that, and his retcon powers can be seen as that plus a mastery over time, space, freedom (in that he can be anywhere he pleases and doesn't have to follow the rules of paradox space), and fortune (which is really what you'd naturally expect from mastery over the first three but still)

 

[Walkazo]

omg, yes! That's so true! (Especially in light of how Marowak rephrases it below, since I wasn't completely sure of how breath and light fit into it at first, just that they must.) It works with the classes too, at least going by my theory of:

ACTIVE - - PASSIVE
Lord - rule - Muse
Witch - create - Page
Prince - destroy - Bard
Knight - defend - Maid
Heir - heal - Sylph
Thief - steal - Rogue
Mage - understand - Seer

(since John's retcon powers are defending, healing and creating the alpha timeline, all at once / depending on how you look at it, and of course he needed understanding to do all that)

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

Could that mean the John's retcon powers are a combination of his whole team's powers or something like that? At some point he became able to become intangible by turning into wind or something like that, and his retcon powers can be seen as that plus a mastery over time, space, freedom (in that he can be anywhere he pleases and doesn't have to follow the rules of paradox space), and fortune (which is really what you'd naturally expect from mastery over the first three but still)

He can master space and time and be detached from reality to create the most favorable outcomes.

so your theory is that doc scratch is an incestuous amalgam of rose and her father's robot double

well he's GOTTA please these shippers somehow

And yeah, the other felt jujus are kind of hard to explain, since like you said (Edo), there are more than four. I just hope there will be an explanation other than "lol magical artifacts".

 

[Random Blue]

So does this mean someone's gonna use the juju breaker to get the beta kids out of there?

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

I doubt the juju breaker frees souls, we've already seen it used on Eggs' timer and we've seen no soul come out (unless they're supposed to be invisible, like Aradia's ghost). Still, when the timer broke nothing really...happened to hint that a soul just came out. Maybe instead of the crowbar freeing souls, it destroys them? Which then would match the juju breaker with DIRK's abilities instead of John's.