Can Town (The Official Homestuck Thread)

[Dr. Javelin]

my guess is that in the new series of unfortunate events, everything gamzee did in the last time happens again, BUT he's under vriska's influence instead of aranea's this time

but again we don't really know yet

 

[Walkazo]

That's Aranea... Check the hair length and the fact that all the other dancestors are pictured somewhere but her.

I'm sorry, I don't see it.

[pictures]

I'm pretty sure the fact that her hair is shorter is just due to the artist who drew her, who isn't hussie.

The regular sprites are sort of the worst things to use for scale/proportions, imo. In some of the actual drawings, her hair's actually a bit past shoulder length:

Meanwhile, Vriska's braids are butt-length:

While discrepancies can be chalked up to the fact that the artist isn't Hussie, boob-length braids are closer to shoulder-length hair than they are to butt-length hair/braids. They might have even been elongated on purpose because shoulder-length braids don't really look like braids at all - just little nubs.

I'm pretty sure the fact that her hair is shorter is just due to the artist who drew her, who isn't hussie. Pretty sure the retcon is just a way to create a better alpha timeline, while the original alpha timeline still exists, perhaps doomed for the most part, but contributing to paradox space nevertheless. So it's like a privileged doomed timeline. This, as I said before, was implied by our meta guy: Dave.

DAVE: yeah messing with the alpha timeline
DAVE: i mean not the alpha timeline but the ALPHA alpha timeline

This would mean that the furthest ring isn't influenced by the retcon shenanigans. Meaning that there is only one "original" Aranea. Who died thanks to the mini tumor bomb, bla bla afterlife, came back to life, fucked up the alpha session and was double killed by The Condesce.

If the retcon powers made things "never happen", probably only John would continue to exist because we could consider him "uncanon", and maybe roxy because she made a deal with her denizen. But we clearly see that Jaspersprite, a mere sprite, is still alive and well and came along for the ride, presumably with the other sprites. Which is why i think the whole "retcon erases things from ever existing" is not whats going on.

This would also mean that Sollux and Aradia witnessed two versions of the meteor crew, which is weird.

While it's admittedly hard to tell what Dave meant by the "ALPHA alpha timeline", you're also ignoring my point that John took Roxy, Jasperssprite and all of LOWAS out of the timeline before he started retconning things more majorly than oil and arms, so it's not just him who doesn't get affected by whatever he did:

ROXY: i didnt know it at the time but you were gonna make your whole planet disappear
ROXY: so if i wanted to keep persisting thru your history altering hijinks then all i really had to do was uh
ROXY: come along for the ride
[...]
ROXY: that either i could stay behind and vanish into nothingness forever, and everyone in the new reality would inherit all the bigtime responsibilities, including a version of myself who had no memory of any of this and never experienced all the loss and sadness i just went through
ROXY: or
ROXY: i could go with you
[...]
ROXY: why is the sky blank btw
JOHN: it's blank because it's...
JOHN: nothing.
ROXY: nothing
ROXY: why is it nothing
ROXY: where even are we
JOHN: it's nothing because we are literally nowhere.
[...]
JOHN: i don't think this place has any bearing on other time lines.
JOHN: it's almost like...
JOHN: like taking a time out from our canonical lives.o

So everyone on LOWAS doesn't get erased, but everything else does, including the folks in the furthest ring. Because it makes no sense for there to be two Meteors witnessed by Sollux and Aradia - both versions of the alpha timeline we've seen had them plus Dave and Rose, with Dave and Rose getting on the Meteor "both" times (but in reality, there was only one time, with two versions, but one overwrites the other so in the end, there's only the one whathappened.file on the harddrive of time, even though you only made that version by starting with the earlier version you then overwrote).

also, about the whole alpha/doomed timeline: a lot of people assume that the alpha timeline has to result in a win for the main cast - which i don't necessarily think is true. just because paradox space wills something doesn't mean it's ultimately what's good for our protagonists

True... But LE also kills the elder gods and forg-verses alike, so they'd probably favour a timeline that ends in him dead once he's taken care of all the leftover ghosts of the doomed timelines and there's no more cannonfodder to try and busy him with.

 

[Tyrell Badd]

Well, at least Tavros is alive...somewhat...

 

[Lin Beifong]

That's Aranea... Check the hair length and the fact that all the other dancestors are pictured somewhere but her.

I'm sorry, I don't see it.

[pictures]

I'm pretty sure the fact that her hair is shorter is just due to the artist who drew her, who isn't hussie.

The regular sprites are sort of the worst things to use for scale/proportions, imo. In some of the actual drawings, her hair's actually a bit past shoulder length:

Meanwhile, Vriska's braids are butt-length:

While discrepancies can be chalked up to the fact that the artist isn't Hussie, boob-length braids are closer to shoulder-length hair than they are to butt-length hair/braids. They might have even been elongated on purpose because shoulder-length braids don't really look like braids at all - just little nubs.

Hussie has been known for elongating character features if it improves the image somehow (this is gonna get quoted out of context, I just know it). This is a common drawing practice where realism is sacrificed for the purpose of making a scene look more dynamic or interesting. In fact, I do it myself often.

Impractically long scarves.

John's windsock hood almost tripling in length in certain shots.

Grimdark Rose's scarf increasing its size to eldritch lengths.

And there's most likely even more instances of fluctuating proportions that I don't want to list now because it would require digging through the whole comic again.

So the hair-length argument doesn't convince me.

Furthermore, there's the issue of the hair style itself. Specifically the parts Vriska didn't have shaved off. Vriska and Aranea have similar, but still different hairstyles. Through these differences, the identity of Meenah's partner can be further cemented.

And there's even more.

If you compare their default outfits, Vriska tends to favor her sign in blue on a black backdrop. Aranea on the other hand favors her sign in white on a blue backdrop, only deviating from this formula when cosplaying as Mindfang. The person Meenah is with seems to favor Vriska's choice of wardrobe.

I also find it highly unlikely that Aranea would make exactly the same choices regarding hairstyle, clothing, piercings, and tatoos as Vriska did. The reason why Vriska did these things in that way is because this is a conclusion of her personal character arc. She's done with trying to fix everything, she's done with trying to make everything about herself, she's done with stressing out about her plans and just doesn't care anymore. By giving those same choices to Aranea, it would cheapen Vriska's character and the impact that scene had. For all the jokes Hussie tends to make, I doubt he would really want to do that.

Each point on their own, I would concur that the evidence could be incidental. But considering all of them together, I very clearly see a pattern here, and I am convinced that this person is Vriska.

it's not vriska because the person they're looking at/looking at them in the next image is very very clearly vriska

unless there are two vriskas

Javelin, the fact that there are multiple iterations of the same person has been a prominent theme in the whole furthest ring arc, and has been established in the whole comic for a while now.

There are not only two Vriskas, there are like hundreds of Vriskas. And then a thousand more of them. And then even more.

We're just talking about two specific instances right now.

also, about the whole alpha/doomed timeline: a lot of people assume that the alpha timeline has to result in a win for the main cast - which i don't necessarily think is true. just because paradox space wills something doesn't mean it's ultimately what's good for our protagonists

I'm not assuming that at all. The reason why I think the original timeline has alpha status is because one of the points John is doing the splitting from is a point that Doc Scratch is commenting on. Doc Scratch commenting on something has been canonically confirmed as a way of cementing it as part of the alpha timeline. That is unless he precludes his commentary with something like "I am guessing now because I don't know".

The fact that one of John's retcons cuts the doctor off mid-rant means that the timeline he is retconning is indeed the alpha timeline. What does he do during that specific retcon? He saves Vriska. Why did everything go to shit in the original timeline? Because Vriska was dead.

This is strong evidence that the timeline where Vriska dies and everything goes to shit because of it is the or an alpha timeline.



I'm sorry, I didn't want to write a post as long as this. It felt shorter in my head.

 

[Walkazo]

Again, the argument can go the other way too: whoever was drawing the image could have elongated the braids from normal Aranea length to make them look clearly like braids modeled after pre-retcon Vriska. As for the hair flip, it goes up in pretty much all fanart when you google "Aranea Serkit", plus it's how the Openbound talk sprite looks, how she looks throughout GAME OVER until the last profile shot, and how Hussie himself has drawn her too in at least once static panel:

While in the net page, Vriska's hair goes down for a change, coincidentally. Not the sort of detail best relied upon. As for the getup being exactly the same, I can see that as being done to make it clear that Aranea filled her exact role, and to show how time is funny like that sometimes. And I actually can picture Hussie plotting that role takeover on purpose - the pairing was always too happy and carefree to stick, and really, Vriska reforming to save the day is more satisfying to me than her turning into something she ultimately wasn't for Meenah. In fact, to me it's more in-character if Aranea does that, since she "also" assumed Mindfang persona in the pre-retcon timeline due to the prompting of others.

I'm not assuming that at all. The reason why I think the original timeline has alpha status is because one of the points John is doing the splitting from is a point that Doc Scratch is commenting on. Doc Scratch commenting on something has been canonically confirmed as a way of cementing it as part of the alpha timeline. That is unless he precludes his commentary with something like "I am guessing now because I don't know".

The fact that one of John's retcons cuts the doctor off mid-rant means that the timeline he is retconning is indeed the alpha timeline. What does he do during that specific retcon? He saves Vriska. Why did everything go to shit in the original timeline? Because Vriska was dead.

This is strong evidence that the timeline where Vriska dies and everything goes to shit because of it is the or an alpha timeline.

Technically, all Scratch says is that: "What sort of story would this be, with our Knight and Seer made to stay cadavers? Certainly not one the alpha timeline would allow." And on that very page, the split happens. One goes the normal way, where Scratch says "And not one she'd allow either.", but then he actually stops narrating then too - he never says "and thus Terezi slayeth the Vrisksa", just that she stops herself and Karkat from dying, which actually applies to both branching pathways. Going the retcon way from the split, there's no DS narration, but what he said still holds true: a timeline where she and Karkat die does not happen, and it's because of Terezi sending John back in time. I'd actually really like to see what Doc Scratch makes of the retconning - he could very well say he never lied, and it was our fault for assuming Terezi stabbing Vriska was the ultimate alpha solution. Or he could say that it was necessary to go through the dead!Vriska timeline to get to the retcon timeline that leads to no death so it was still a step in the right direction or whatever. Or he could say it was a big joke - that'd be in character too.

you know, even if that's aranea (something of which i remain entirely unconvinced), there's still no consistent interpretation of events that doesn't involve something or someone surviving john's manipulation. see here, where post-retcon jane and post-retcon jade speak with calliope

calliope's "historical document" is rose's journal. if this is a post-retcon calliope, then her document must have been penned by the orignal timeline's rose, because there's no reason rose would have completely failed to mention spending three years with vriska. so in that case, the journal must have survived the retcon, precluding the utter destruction of the original timeline

if this is pre-retcon calliope, then she herself have came from the original timeline. this also precludes its destruction

Hmmm, I forgot about that - that is interesting...

 

[Lin Beifong]

i was just alerted to the fact that the most recent paradox space has an alternate page 31 in which you can see tavros's erection. until now i never even noticed that there's a button at the bottom of the page you can click to reveal it

i think i like the censored version better. as much as i don't like the idea of censorship, dave's description of tavros's boner is honestly way funnier than actually seeing it

Just had the opportunity to look it up.

Huh.

It kind of reminds me of the official artwork of Barinade.

 

[SiFi]

I'm pretty sure that originally it was neither of those. It was like the uncensored version except pixellated instead of being covered by Dave's narration.

 

[Nabber]

huh

is that canon troll reproduction

 

[Lin Beifong]

I doubt it.

There probably isn't even a canon method, so Hussie can keep people guessing.

 

[2257]

that was the second version according to the wiki


well dave literally says right on that page that he doesn't know how trolls reproduce and is just making something up

 

[Walkazo]

Yeah, the first version looks like a freaky walnut fountain extended from his skull, then people complained about the body horror, so they did a quick pixelated cover-up version, which people complained about even more because now they thought the brown blob was something obscene, so then (afaik) Hussie himself wrote Dave's rambling verbal account which was then used to cover up the walnut fountain in place of the pixels in the final version. But yeah, it's all non-canon no matter which way ya flip it.

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

Oh wow dave's words weren't there last time
still funny tho

 

[Lin Beifong]

Marowak, stop looking at troll erotica you weird pervert!

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

I just realized that Dirk plays a big role in English's rise to power.
Like
He was the one who helped Caliborn made that robotic leg
he was the one who hesitated prototyping Lil Hal before Gamzee prototyped Equius, and even broke Lil Hal which might have leg to it becoming more vicious and therefore doc scratch happens
...and then he trapped caliborn and the others inside cal creating LE

EDIT: Also remember this:

The Bard of Hope may seem a little jaded these days, but once he had a deeply abiding faith in magic, and dedicated himself to becoming a great wizard. He became convinced he was hatched to defeat an extraordinarily evil magician, one he swore the angels foretold of. Though when pressed for the name of the man, he would not say it, claiming it was too dangerous to even enunciate. Part of his self-aggrandizing mythos was that this magician once somehow from afar tried to strike him down at a young age, so he would never have to face him. But the evil spell was deflected, sealing the magician's spirit away in a series of unassuming vessels until he could find some other cunning way to enter our universe. The attack supposedly left him with his distinctive scar. But at some point he became disillusioned with magic. If there ever was any truth to his far fetched vision, the legacy of defeating the evil magician would have to be passed on to his descendant, or if his descendant proved to be as much of a failure as he did, then perhaps on some other Hero of Hope. I'm unsure why he suffered this crisis of faith, aside from the obvious reasons having to do with an overall lack of character, or any other redeeming qualities. Perhaps someone talked him out of his beliefs. Maybe a friend close to him. Or, if one is to believe his fantasy held any water, perhaps someone who was in league with the evil magician.

 

[Random Blue]

did Cronus get attacked by Cal

 

[Walkazo]

More likely it was Kurloz.

 

[Random Blue]

That would make more sense.

 

[Spamton G. Spamton]

Ok I just realized why Caliborn never saw Arquius before.
Equius is an heir of void.
Void players tend to go unnoticed.
Hell, his ancestor was even not noticed by Doc Scratch, which is how Mindfang managed to hide the cueball from him.

 

[Walkazo]

That's certainly explain how he was able to sneak up on him and appear out of nowhere in the Vine battle, but iirc Roxy also voided out the whole B2 session with her own powers so he and Calliope couldn't see anything that happened once they were in the medium, including the prototyping. So, like, double-protection.

 

[Lin Beifong]

I've seen a moon getting blown up into the shape of a sickle before. Was it a Kirby game?

King Dedede is LE confirmed.

 

[Random Blue]

gonna clobbah dat dere calliopeh

 

[Walkazo]

I was a bit saddened by the fact that ARquiussprite only talked about reviving the royals, and not Nepeta - guess the AR half's ambivalence replaced the Equius half's moirallegiance.

Also, I wonder if Vriska's secret mission will involve taking Gamzee and mind-controlling him into setting everything in motion to make LE (and Union jack), which could explain why he was always so chill when dealing with Caliborn - like how he was subdued when Aranea had him controlled, and as soon as she let up, the freak show came out. It would fit into what Marowak said earlier about her creating LE the way she created Bec Noir, too.

And that book thing is still bothering me. Unless the Vriska and Gamzee stuff got edited out with Equius's blood, or if Callie's copy is from the retconned timeline by way of Jasperssprite or something. Or maybe Jade was assuming wrongly that Callie didn't know about Vriska from her book, and the book also changed in the retcon (but then it wasn't anything more than a superficial difference). Either way, really hoping the next update or two go over the timeline changes in more detail, with the whimsical video not being all we ever have to go on.

 

[Nabber]

remember when the mayor actually did shit besides stand around looking adorable

i mean i love when he stands around looking adorable but i miss when he actually did shit too

anyway i think i know have a slightly better understanding of things due to this update

 

[banjonator1]

I read Summerteen romance and cried

 

[Lin Beifong]

And that book thing is still bothering me. Unless the Vriska and Gamzee stuff got edited out with Equius's blood, or if Callie's copy is from the retconned timeline by way of Jasperssprite or something. Or maybe Jade was assuming wrongly that Callie didn't know about Vriska from her book, and the book also changed in the retcon (but then it wasn't anything more than a superficial difference). Either way, really hoping the next update or two go over the timeline changes in more detail, with the whimsical video not being all we ever have to go on.

Did the blood-censoring even happen in this timeline? Like, in the last timeline it was Gamzee who smeared Equius' blood over certain passages about himself. But in this one, not only is he kept on a tight leash by Vriska, he also doesn't seem to have his troll blood enterprise since Vriska is now hoarding the bodies, not him. This is further suggested by how it's now Vriska who showed up at Jane's house, not Gamzee.

There's still the possibility that Vriska did some censoring of her own, but I don't know why she would do that. I mean she likes attention, so striking references to herself from something seems uncharacteristic.