Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

Dr. Baby Luigi said:
I completely agree that all it serves is to waste your time and I hate it, and this includes all games which kick you out of the level when you die. Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends lets you hop in the level immediately after dying. Super Mario Odyssey also wastes your time by slowly showing a black screen and reminding you that the coins you lost when you died are indeed lost. At the very least, Super Mario 3D World lets you hop back in immediately.
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I actually mention this later on in the post.
 
Yeah I saw it but I figured it was better to kill two birds with one stone and just address that. I feel like that screen treats its players as idiots. You already see yourself losing coins as you die. Games with a money penalty when you die like GTA V see yourself just deduct money from the UI as you spawn (hell fucking Mario Kart 8 Deluxe knew that and just deducted your points as you died).

Still not as bad as getting kicked out of the painting or whatever like in Super Mario 64 or Sunshine though.
 
Dr. Baby Luigi said:
Super Paper Mario's story isn't deep. Maybe it has a more developed plot point than a typical Mario game and it has more developed characters, but its plot certainly isn't deep by any sort of definition. It plays on cliche JRPG tropes (and literary tropes in general). The only message it has is that it's the typical forbidden love story and there's a person who wants to destroy the world and that there's a prophecy, all of them extremely common literary cliches. There's a Mary Sue character introduced in the beginning of the game who shows up and simply beats all of the established main characters to the curb without a fight. There's no subtle underlying definitions and morals underwoven between the lines of its plot. I arguably say it's as shallow as any sort of typical Mario platformer story of Bowser kidnapping Peach.

I also strongly disgaree that it has a creative plot. It doesn't. As I said earlier, Super Paper Mario is filled with literary cliches and plays them straight; the only thing that sets it apart is its Mario-theming and even then it doesn't really take full advantage of it. The original Paper Mario felt unique because it expanded a Bowser kidnaps Peach plot and gives screentime on what goes on while Peach gets kidnapped while introducing worlds populated with friendly Mario characters. We don't really get that in Super Paper Mario.
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I feel part of the reason the story is deemed "deep" is less the story itself and more that it has developed characters to speak off, plus some really unfitting elements such as the entirety of Chapter 7, where Mario is basically sent to his universe's equivalent of Hell. I think the whole game feeling so un-Mario in contrast to the mainline series is why people hold it to such a high regard.

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door doesn't have that deep of a plot either, it's your standard treasure hunt story with the necessary mystery elements and pacing. But people, myself included, love it for the same reason: some darker tones/writting and well-written characters/character interactions.

That's the conclusion I've come to anyway.
 
I felt like what TTYD did worked and what SPM did didn't work because SPM often had a case of mood whiplash. Even though TTYD had some darker undertones, it still didn't took itself too seriously despite the alien robots wanting to awaken that dark queen thing so even the more humorous or light-hearted parts of the story look like they would fit right in. In contrast, SPM took itself far too seriously but then attempted to compound the world destruction stuff with all sorts of toilet humor and what not. SPM's humor could work in a Mario game like That's My Merlee or something but not in the context of "world destruction heroes of light prophecy" blah blah blah and ugh.

However, when I think of the term "deep" I think of other games that are extremely complicated and are often written as a parable to real life at points. I have more mature games in my head when I think of deeper stories, such as GTA V which criticizes a bunch of aspects of modern society or some of the plot threads in Fallout New Vegas that I forgot but are complicated and nuanced. I do agree that it's not quite the "right" terminology that fans use to describe it; rather they are praising that it has a more structure to its story than say New Super Mario Bros. 2 so it could be just the pedantry in me moaning and groaning about it (also I like complaining about Super Paper Mario too favorite past-time with my bud Mcmadness).
 
Even though Yoshi is categorised as having his franchise and in fact has his own universe in Super Smash Bros., I felt that Yoshi is still strictly a major Mario spin-off rather than his own franchise, unlike Donkey Kong and Wario. It's similar to how Peach and Captain Toad having their own games still meant that they are Mario spin-off games rather their own series.

My thought is this: Yoshi's earlier games share the spotlight with Mario, who is actually the playable character. For example in Yoshi's Safari, who is the one shooting? It's Mario! Yoshi's Cookie's single player is controlled by Mario and Yoshi for two versions (GB and SNES) but in the NES it's all Mario. And then there's Yoshi's first game, where only Mario (and Luigi) are playable while Yoshi sits in the sidelines. Even when Yoshi truly struck out on his own in Yoshi's Island, some Mario enemies still appear in his games, not to mention that it has baby versions of established Mario characters like Baby Mario and Baby Luigi. Shy Guys are the main enemies of the Yoshi games, but they still appear in Mario games despite not being regular Mario enemies.

Yoshi's main villain is even Baby Bowser, which is basically Bowser's infant self. With Bowser Jr., both of them resemble each other so Baby Bowser isn't quite looking so original since Bowser Jr. still appears in Mario games. Plus, Yoshi still has regular appearances in Mario games. Let's not forget that Smash Ultimate categorise a Super Mario World stage as a Yoshi universe level even though it's actually a Mario stage. Basically, Mario and Yoshi games still share a lot of things between them that calling Yoshi his own franchise didn't feel right.

Thank you for reading.
 
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winstein said:
Yoshi's main villain is even Baby Bowser, which is basically Bowser's infant self. With Bowser Jr., both of them resemble each other so Baby Bowser isn't quite looking so original since Bowser Jr. still appears in Mario games. Plus, Yoshi still has regular appearances in Mario games. Let's not forget that Smash Ultimate categorise a Super Mario World stage as a Yoshi universe level even though it's actually a Mario stage. Basically, Mario and Yoshi games still share a lot of things between them that calling Yoshi his own franchise didn't feel right.
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Speaking of Smash, Smash 4's trophy box has an inconsistent categorization. Baby Luigi's trophy (and I think Shy Guy and Kamek?) is labled under the Mario series and has the Mushroom series emblem when you read the description, yet in the trophy box, is categorized under the Yoshi series.
 
I think Goombario is the best partner in Paper Mario 64. I don't even care that he's one of the most generic-looking characters in the game. His Tattle ability alone gives him much more dialogue (and hence, a more developed personality) than any other partner in the game, and also makes him practically essential during boss battles because otherwise you can't see the boss HP. I'll go ahead and post some of my favorite quotes of his:

Goombario said:
Now that...is a lot of lava. Did you know it'd be this hot? And we have to cross here, don't we? I knew it.
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Goombario said:
Boy, climbing this mountain is really hard! You'd think the path to a palace dedicated to the Stars would be a lot less trying on the legs.
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Goombario said:
She's my sister, Goombaria. She's a spoiled girl, but still, everyone's always nice to her. Why?
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Those quotes and others almost leave me speechless at the sheer attention to detail the developers had. While his personality may not be as unique and interesting as, say, Tippi, it sure went deep to show that he's going through the same experiences as Mario, right alongside him.

Also I haven't even mentioned that battlewise Goombario is probably the most broken partner ever because Charge x ~10 + Multibonk = Ultimate OP. Just...wow.
 
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I used to think that a Youtube player called "Japancommercials4U2" used Goombario most of the time (although switching out to Watt at Bowser's battle since she ignores defence) but I came to think that it's not a bad choice since Goombario is viewed as the least favourite of the partners.

I also like that Goombario is the only partner in that game to have the ability to boost his attack, unlike the other partners. The biggest example is Bow, as she is at the biggest disadvantage because if the enemy have Defence, her attack potential is drastically reduced and since she can't boost her power, the only thing that can basically be done is to grant Mario invincibility.

The only thing that would disrupt the Charge + Multibonk strategy is if an enemy can target the partner since it would also reset the boosts, so if this strategy is applied to Bowser, you must time the dodges well when Bowser uses that wave attack to protect your partner.

Thank you for reading.
 
what the hek do you mean goombario is disliked. i will slam something.
hes generally underappreciated among partners in the seris in general i think
as are the other pm64 partners.. sure they dont have as much personality as the ones in ttyd but
 
Mario rpgs are good entry level rpgs, not the best the genre has to offer.
 
Kinda wish the SM64-style Scuttlebug design stuck around, I like how fittingly unnerving it is with it's spindly legs compared to it's modern day equivalent.

Maybe someday we'll have that jamboree... *Stares wistfully into the sunset*
 
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Man, modern scuttles with the old design would be so terrifying.

I'd freaking love that!
 
A majority of the songs in the M&L are rather forgettable, with only a few exceptions. Super Mario RPG has a better soundtrack with more songs that I enjoy, but it's still rather weak.
 
Both game series have serviceable, inoffensive music that I don't have any strong opinions on.

Except Partners in Time's The Final Requiem. That's a keeper.
 
I think part of the reason the plot of SPM is played straight is because it's satire on different literary cliches and isn't supposed to be taken seriously
 
I thought the soundtrack of Super Mario RPG is not bad, although it was a surprise to find out that Forest Maze is considered the best track.

Thank you for reading.
 
ArchagentEverlasting said:
I think part of the reason the plot of SPM is played straight is because it's satire on different literary cliches and isn't supposed to be taken seriously
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At times it can feel like satire but it doesn't really pull the trigger on it enough. It has too many moments where it wants you to take it seriously to be effective satire.
 
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