Super Mario 3D World

[Revin]

Rosalina's inclusion was a big surprise, since I was thinking more about Yoshi or Wario. However, chances are, you might have to snatch every Green Star first before using her.

that would be stupid why would they make you do that you'd basically have finished everything by the time you'd done that and then there would be no point in playing as her

looking at this screenshot, it looks like we might get a galaxy type stage, so maybe you unlock her after you've beaten that?

 

[Purple Yoshi]

Although the fact that characters like Waluigi and Toadette had their debut in spin-off series while Rosalina started off in a main series 3D Mario game has to count for something. As for why it isn't Daisy? Simple. Rosalina is more interesting and they found it easier to think of ideas for her unique controls. After all, Daisy is basically a Peach clone. At least that's how she started off. I don't know what they would do if they added her in.

 

[New Super Mario]

Daisy can stick to spin-offs for all I care. hehe

 

[Crackin355]

Cool, Rosalina is playable. Totally didn't think it would happen but it's a nice addition.

I don't really care that she got in and Daisy hasn't.

 

[santanoice]

- Daisy had only a small handful of platformer appearances and was just a damsel in distress / object / obtainable / etc in them.

Omg...after having to look up like so many articles for my research paper, I really hate looking at those words now...

Aren't we all? *sigh*

Anyways, Daisy could have a little more establishment in terms of characterization, but it's not her fault, it's Nintendo's. I do feel that she deserves more of a backstory besides in Super Mario Land. She has basically been demoted to Waluigi status, where she is the secondary princess to Princess Peach that appears as another appealing female option to play as in spin-offs. It is quite sad because Daisy can have more potential to be in a main game sort of situation, but unfortunately she has not been given that opportunity yet.

Toadette is somewhat in the same boat, though she got a good appearance in TTYD. She mainly is just the female version of Toad, thus another female [almost] purely for spin-offs as a women choice. Would love to see her and Daisy both in a main Mario game, just as I would love to see Waluigi appear in a main game of either Mario or Wario.

With Rosalina though, I'm very happy that they are doing it with her. She is a very developed character, and with this and Mario Party 3DS, it will be her 6th appearance. In that time, she was one of the main NPC in SMG and a major cameo in SMG2, a playable character in Mario Kart Wii and 7 (and even had a course), and now potentially a host/cameo in MP3DS and playable in a main 3D Mario game. She is also the only female "princess" in the Mario series to not have been captured by an evil villain [yet]. She has one of the most detailed backgrounds of all the Mario characters throughout the series, and it was in a mainstream Mario game rather than in a Mario RPG where it is usually expected.

Now, do I want Daisy to be playable in a main Mario game? Yes. Do I want to see Toadette at least appear in a main Mario game? Yes.

However, what they are doing with Rosalina is a step in the right direction. I feel like everything they are doing with this game has been a step in the right direction. They are coming up with more original bosses after all those sad disappointments, Peach is actually the one saving someone instead of vise versa, and we get another famous Mario character playable. Not to mention the fact that many levels are actually inspired from/by other Mario series (Mario Kart, 3D Open World Mario, etc.). These past 8 years have basically been games (MP9, Sticker Star, etc.) that have been influenced by the Mario platformers, but now there is a lot of things from other games. A step in the right direction.

This. This so much.

Something tells me that this really is going to be a turning point for many Mario games after the NSMB suffering. I feel as though we are going to start seeing more of the lovely classics like Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 1 and less of the NSMB stuff. At least, one could hope.

I don't really have a problem with the NSMB series. I mean, I adored NSMBW because it felt like a throwback to everything I loved about SMB3, and I very much enjoyed NSMBU because it was a prettier NSMBW with challenge modes and Miiverse. However, like you, they have felt very stale as of late. Also, the openness of Super Mario 64 was, like, the turning point that made me really love video games because suddenly they weren't just toys, they were new worlds that you can go into and explore, and that blew my mind.

Then I see articles like this which kinda suggest that Open-3D Mario games are bad because the 2D fans didn't like them and because they didn't sell as well. But this feels so wrong because of the feelings I have towards Super Mario 64. I really wish Nintendo would just accept that it's okay to have a different audience for the 2D, Open-3D, and Linear-3D and that making something special that caters to each group individually, because they feel so much purer than something that meshes them all together.

It makes me worry that we'll never see another open world like Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine, and that kids who are now turning the age I was when I first played Super Mario 64 won't have that sudden mind explosion about games being another world, and that makes me sad.

I disagree. Rosalina has been in the series for six years now, which is a long time mind you.

Would you mind counting how many years Toad has been here?

I was addressing the fact that everyone considers her a 'newcomer,' which makes sense compared to the other characters in the series but compared to every other game character in existence it is quite a long stretch.

- Daisy had only a small handful of platformer appearances and was just a damsel in distress / object / obtainable / etc in them.

Everyone has their love in main characters. In the same word, Peach shouldn't be playable because she also meets these things.

Daisy and Toadette had been an issue in SMB titles because they have been playing contradictory roles in Mushroom Kingdom. Everything could be fine if Nintendo just randomly pick Azalea and Mrs. Zess to be recurring characters. If you want to argue that Daisy doesn't deserve more spotlights, you should blame Nintendo why they shot themselves in the foot.

Peach has had a couple of opportunities to shine, such as her roles in the Super Princess Peach and the Paper Mario series (a bit of a stretch but still a thing), so compared to Daisy she does have that exploration. It's not much, yet it still is comparatively close to other Mario characters like Mario and Luigi.

It also doesn't really help that, as far as we've seen, Daisy in terms of character has never really offered more than Peach at all other than being worse tempered (Mario Strikers). Most literature people would tell people to ditch her completely because her character as it stands can just be encapsulated in Peach. Same deal with Toadette being encapsulated in Toad (I honestly can't think of a difference other than her being a girl).

However, what they are doing with Rosalina is a step in the right direction. I feel like everything they are doing with this game has been a step in the right direction. They are coming up with more original bosses after all those sad disappointments, Peach is actually the one saving someone instead of vise versa, and we get another famous Mario character playable. Not to mention the fact that many levels are actually inspired from/by other Mario series (Mario Kart, 3D Open World Mario, etc.). These past 8 years have basically been games (MP9, Sticker Star, etc.) that have been influenced by the Mario platformers, but now there is a lot of things from other games. A step in the right direction.

It's a correct statement. Yes, no matter what, if Nintendo is willing to give more main characters playable and unlockable elements, we expect it to happen in future SMB titles. However, they should also get rid of their old problems.

Pretty much.

Just to be clear, I wasn't by any means arguing that they the other characters shouldn't get their chance to shine (I know people have been hammering about a Waluigi game for many years now) but I don't think 3D World is really the place for it, because in this game their exposure is just another body of the default character skeleton, rather than having their stories explored. Unless they decided to do a 'library' thing for each of the characters in 3D World like they did for Rosalina in Galaxy (which would be kinda cool in all honesty), then I don't know how adding them is really going to benefit their character at all. I was basically saying that if we're choosing characters for this game based purely on character establishment, then Rosalina is a more appropriate choice, despite her infancy in the series.

 

[Purple Yoshi]

Yes, sure, if Nintendo REALLY wanted to, they could have made it Daisy. But they didn't, because they like Rosalina more, and the team that made this game also made the Galaxy games, I think.

 

[Dorayaki]

Rosalina has more character development than any of those other losers, except for Wario and he doesn't really appear in Mario games anymore.

In the light of characters' debut order, it's that how much effort Nintendo themslelves put in giving developments to characters, and in theory older characters would receive more development than newcomers. There have been many chances like main titles, subseries and RPGs. But in most time Nintendo didn't take them, which is why they became infamous.

For Wario's case, not only he has own series, but at least he had returned once in SM64DS, so he's not in this topic this time.

I disagree. Rosalina has been in the series for six years now, which is a long time mind you.

Would you mind counting how many years Toad has been here?

- Daisy had only a small handful of platformer appearances and was just a damsel in distress / object / obtainable / etc in them.

Everyone has their love in main characters. In the same word, Peach shouldn't be playable because she also meets these things.

Daisy and Toadette had been an issue in SMB titles because they have been playing contradictory roles in Mushroom Kingdom. Everything could be fine if Nintendo just randomly pick Azalea and Mrs. Zess to be recurring characters. If you want to argue that Daisy doesn't deserve more spotlights, you should blame Nintendo why they shot themselves in the foot.

However, what they are doing with Rosalina is a step in the right direction. I feel like everything they are doing with this game has been a step in the right direction. They are coming up with more original bosses after all those sad disappointments, Peach is actually the one saving someone instead of vise versa, and we get another famous Mario character playable. Not to mention the fact that many levels are actually inspired from/by other Mario series (Mario Kart, 3D Open World Mario, etc.). These past 8 years have basically been games (MP9, Sticker Star, etc.) that have been influenced by the Mario platformers, but now there is a lot of things from other games. A step in the right direction.

It's a correct statement. Yes, no matter what, if Nintendo is willing to give more main characters playable and unlockable elements, we expect it to happen in future SMB titles. However, they should also get rid of their old problems.

Simple. Rosalina is more interesting and they found it easier to think of ideas for her unique controls. After all, Daisy is basically a Peach clone. At least that's how she started off. I don't know what they would do if they added her in.

Rosalina started off in a main series 3D Mario game has to count for something.

Simple. As said, it despends on how much development Nintendo put in, so they can think how to endow her with unique moves like how they did to the others.

Playability is one thing, and her role in story is another issue. We don't consider how characters start off, but how they "position".

 

[santanoice]

Off topic: Dorayaki stop deleting your posts, now my response doesn't make sense because it is a few posts ahead. *sniff* :'[

 

[Dorayaki]

I was addressing the fact that everyone considers her a 'newcomer,' which makes sense compared to the other characters in the series but compared to every other game character in existence it is quite a long stretch.

Maybe correct. But somehow I think Rosalina hasn't appeared in too many games after Galaxy titles.

It also doesn't really help that, as far as we've seen, Daisy in terms of character has never really offered more than Peach at all other than being worse tempered (Mario Strikers). Most literature people would tell people to ditch her completely because her character as it stands can just be encapsulated in Peach. Same deal with Toadette being encapsulated in Toad (I honestly can't think of a difference other than her being a girl).

It's like what I said, "character developement". Nintendo gave too many plumbers/toads/princes-likes but created too few characters that are original enough like what they did with Wario ones (ninja girls, doggy taxi drivers... etc). If Nintendo understood how to differentiate similar characters and grab every single opportunity to do that, it doesn't matter today. Even for Rosalina, she had an important role in Galaxy but isn't given a more clear role in the entire Mario world via later Mario games.

 

[MnSG]

Rosalina's inclusion was a big surprise, since I was thinking more about Yoshi or Wario. However, chances are, you might have to snatch every Green Star first before using her.

that would be stupid why would they make you do that you'd basically have finished everything by the time you'd done that and then there would be no point in playing as her

looking at this screenshot, it looks like we might get a galaxy type stage, so maybe you unlock her after you've beaten that?

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[santanoice]

I was addressing the fact that everyone considers her a 'newcomer,' which makes sense compared to the other characters in the series but compared to every other game character in existence it is quite a long stretch.

Maybe correct. But somehow I think Rosalina hasn't appeared in too many games after Galaxy titles.

So far Mario Kart Wii and 7 (and I guess 3D World now). 5 appearences in 6 years isn't terrible, though I guess she could have been in a Mario Party or something. *shrug* It is interesting reading the reception to her character after just her original appearance in Super Mario Galaxy and how people were already then pitting her as one of, if not the best female character in the series (not sure if they included spin-off games like Paper Mario as well, though).

Nintendo gave too many plumbers/toads/princes-likes but created too few characters that are original enough like what they did with Wario ones (ninja girls, doggy taxi drivers... etc). If Nintendo understood how to differentiate similar characters and grab every single opportunity to do that, it doesn't matter today.

Exactly.

Even for Rosalina, she had an important role in Galaxy but isn't given a more clear role in the entire Mario world via later Mario games.

I'd debate that it wasn't really relevant or necessary in the more recent games, which might also explain her lack of appearances in them. She was given the role of the nurturer/mother of the Lumas - the things that grow up to be planets / comets / everything in the universe - which is a large job and means she has a story outside of whatever Mario is doing. It made sense to talk about it in the Galaxy series but not really in something like NSMB.

It would be interesting to see if 3D World does explore her story a bit more but I don't expect it at all.

 

[Dorayaki]

I'd debate that it wasn't really relevant or necessary in the more recent games, which might also explain her lack of appearances in them. She was given the role of the nurturer/mother of the Lumas - the things that grow up to be planets / comets / everything in the universe - which is a large job and means she has a story outside of whatever Mario is doing. It made sense to talk about it in the Galaxy series but not really in something like NSMB.

So far Mario Kart Wii and 7 (and I guess 3D World now). 5 appearences in 6 years isn't terrible, though I guess she could have been in a Mario Party or something. *shrug* It is interesting reading the reception to her character after just her original appearance in Super Mario Galaxy and how people were already then pitting her as one of, if not the best female character in the series (not sure if they included spin-off games like Paper Mario as well, though).

I'm talking about her "position" in Mario world. She started as an obvious outsider, even though she was a very detailed character in her own story. I hope to see her given relationships with other characters and more side stories like you said.

There is the part I feel bad for Rosalina. There had been lots of Mario titles between Galaxy 2 and 3D World (Olympics, Sticker Star.... etc). If Nintendo really want to promote her, she should have been more titles, five or six is far from enough. For those who think Rosalina deserves a place in 3D World, I don't think they're happy with the fact too. There is still imbalance that Nintendo should deal with in the future.

 

[santanoice]

I guess. I don't really care enough about the party games to miss her from them but others may feel different.

 

[Xluidi]

Well, to be fair, no one played most of the spin-off Mario released between Galaxy and now.

As for the discussion: I think Rosalina is in simply because she was a major character in the last 3D Mario games and the dev team didn't want to abandon her, seeing as she's a unique character (God of the Galaxy), while if other "major" characters would just be too similar or just don't fit. (Daisy is another princess, Yoshi is always a powerup in Mario platformers, Wario is no longer a Mario character for all we know, etc.) And seeing the reaction to her, I think they made the right choice seeing as how everyone likes Rosalina, while other choices could be considered annoying (except Waluigi, which would be great, but he'll never appear in a mainline Mario game)

 

[Revin]

As for the discussion: I think Rosalina is in simply because she was a major character in the last 3D Mario games and the dev team didn't want to abandon her, seeing as she's a unique character (God of the Galaxy), while if other "major" characters would just be too similar or just don't fit. (Daisy is another princess, Yoshi is always a powerup in Mario platformers, Wario is no longer a Mario character for all we know, etc.) And seeing the reaction to her, I think they made the right choice seeing as how everyone likes Rosalina, while other choices could be considered annoying (except Waluigi, which would be great, but he'll never appear in a mainline Mario game)

i agree with this post

 

[Dorayaki]

As for the discussion: I think Rosalina is in simply because she was a major character in the last 3D Mario games and the dev team didn't want to abandon her, seeing as she's a unique character (God of the Galaxy).

If other "major" characters would just be too similar or just don't fit. (Daisy is another princess, Yoshi is always a powerup in Mario platformers, Wario is no longer a Mario character for all we know, etc.) And seeing the reaction to her, I think they made the right choice seeing as how everyone likes Rosalina, while other choices could be considered annoying (except Waluigi, which would be great, but he'll never appear in a mainline Mario game)

Makes some sense. Waluigi can be in if Nintendo doesn't want him to be in any Wario game .

I don't think having Rosalina means not having the others. It's how those characters are developed in order to be different, since Nintendo didn't really think about how to create much different characters as a choice of Mario games, as said.

 

[The Shy Guy]

10 days or less to know if Rosalina is making a cameo or not.

Easy Rosalina is loved by everyone but New Super Mario blablabla being a little bored

 

[santanoice]

Why would Waluigi be a protagonist alongside Mario anyway? I mean, Wario has always appeared to be driven by money but Waluigi doesn't really appear to have the same motivation, he's just an antagonist that gets associated with Wario a lot.

 

[MnSG]

Mario: Balance
Luigi: Jumps higher
Peach: Floats
Blue Toad: Runs fast
Rosalina: Star Spins

But if Yoshi was included, he'd probably utilize his tongue to grab and defeat enemies.

 

[Dorayaki]

Why would Waluigi be a protagonist alongside Mario anyway? I mean, Wario has always appeared to be driven by money but Waluigi doesn't really appear to have the same motivation, he's just an antagonist that gets associated with Wario a lot.

I'm not sure which part you're referring to. The fact is Waluigi hasn't made any mainstream game appearance (in both Mario and Wario titles). He seems to naturally make money with Wario, but he didn't. It's also strange for him to save the world with Mario. We're not sure which role Waluigi can take until Nintendo make the decision.

 

[Revin]

Why would Waluigi be a protagonist alongside Mario anyway? I mean, Wario has always appeared to be driven by money but Waluigi doesn't really appear to have the same motivation, he's just an antagonist that gets associated with Wario a lot.

wario appeared in sm64, and that didn't really have a reason except just having wario playable

Mario: Balance
Luigi: Jumps higher
Peach: Floats
Blue Toad: Runs fast
Rosalina: Star Spins

But if Yoshi was included, he'd probably utilize his tongue to grab and defeat enemies.

personally, i think if yoshi was included there would be no way he would be a seperate playable character

 

[Anser]

I'm saying this in an unbiased opinion (ignore the fact that she's my second/third favorite character in the Mario universe), but I think that Rosalina was included because it's obvious she made a big impact when she debuted. She instantly called people's attention and received a fair amount of acclaim. I'd say that out of 10 people, 8 love Rosalina, 1 just likes her and the other one either doesn't mind her or just hates her. She's a likable character with an actual backstory, which is something people appreciate. She is good-looking, and she stood apart from Peach and Daisy by playing a completely different role from what we're used to and having a vastly different personality from them. I even think that she got included out of pure fan-service, and that's something I can completely understand. I can totally expect her being playable in Mario Golf: World Tour now and I think it's pretty obvious she's returning for Mario Kart 8. She may have debuted six years ago, but her "career" in the Mario universe is just about to skyrocket, if you ask me. That, at the risk of being over-exposed. I hope Nintendo manages to balance her appearances. I definitely do NOT want to see her in an Olympics game, a Mario Strikers game, or Party games (I know about Mario Party: Island Tour). At least not being playable.

By the way, after YEARS, and only two different ones, we got ourselves new Rosalina artwork!!

Spoiler

 

[Dorayaki]

I'm saying this in an unbiased opinion.

Very unbiased, yes. I only disagree that Rosalina shouldn't be in spinoffs. It's just a similar way how Nintendo treat Daisy now.

In a market view, I agree that Rosalina is a very considerable and not-surprising choice. Still, it's based on the fact Nintendo didn't play an active role in character developments before Rosalina's debut. Bowser Jr was also given many spotlights, though now it seems that Rosalina receives more than his.

If yoshi was included there would be no way he would be a seperate playable character

Not to mention Yoshi's series, as a sidekick so far he still has enough spotlights in SMB titles.

 

[Anser]

I'm saying this in an unbiased opinion.

Very unbiased, yes. I only disagree that Rosalina shouldn't be in spinoffs. It's just a similar way how Nintendo treat Daisy now.

In a market view, I agree that Rosalina is a very considerable and not-surprising choice. Still, it's based on the fact Nintendo didn't play an active role in character developments before Rosalina's debut. Bowser Jr was also given many spotlights, though now it seems that Rosalina receives more than his.

If yoshi was included there would be no way he would be a seperate playable character

Not to mention Yoshi's series, as a sidekick so far he still has enough spotlights in SMB titles.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but just in case, I was being unbiased. I was just stating facts. Even if I hated her I would have had to recognize that she did make a big impact. I don't think she's getting more spotlight than Bowser Jr., though. He's been the main villain in quite a few games and has been a recurring villain since his debut. He is definitely another important character in the series.

 

[santanoice]

Why would Waluigi be a protagonist alongside Mario anyway? I mean, Wario has always appeared to be driven by money but Waluigi doesn't really appear to have the same motivation, he's just an antagonist that gets associated with Wario a lot.

I'm not sure which part you're referring to. The fact is Waluigi hasn't made any mainstream game appearance (in both Mario and Wario titles). He seems to naturally make money with Wario, but he didn't. It's also strange for him to save the world with Mario. We're not sure which role Waluigi can take until Nintendo make the decision.

Well everyone was suggesting that maybe Waluigi should be a playable character but given what we know about him already that is completely out of character.

I didn't play SM64DS so I don't really know if there was any real motivation for Wario to work alongside Mario and such.

I hope Nintendo manages to balance her appearances. I definitely do NOT want to see her in an Olympics game, a Mario Strikers game, or Party games (I know about Mario Party: Island Tour). At least not being playable.

I'm okay with her being in the spin-off games as long as still remains best known for her significance to 'Super Mario Galaxy' world and not just being another character for party games like Waluigi and Daisy have essentially become.

I would especially like her in Strikers because Strikers is awesome and she is awesome so it seems fitting, but hey. :P