Collab: Removing "he/she"s

Singular "they" should be dealt with like British vs. American spelling: if you don't like it, fine, don't use it - but if you see it already in use, leave it alone, because it is considered to be proper grammar on the wiki, and this is never going to change.

Just as both British and American spelling, punctuation and grammar are accepted on a first-come, first-served basis, so too is the singular "they" (which, seeing as plenty of Americans use it, isn't actually a strictly British/American thing). It makes the wiki more inclusive and fair to everyone, since we can all use the language we were taught, rather than forcing any given faction to conform to the other (this also makes writing easier, since you don't have to worry about converting your writing to another set of rules you don't know as well). Of course, this means we all have to put up with grammar and spellings we don't personally agree with as we read through the wiki, but again, that's more fair than making it uniform and forcing one side to always have to put up with the stuff they're not used to. Seeing as the entire wiki uses both standards, it's not inconsistent, and "both standards are correct" is actually a much more simple and straightforward stance than picking a side and having to explain all the little grammar, spelling and punctuation points that come with it.

In short, you'll put up with my singular "they"s while I'll put up with your "color"s, and we'll each write our own content the way we see fit. We both give a little, and we both get a little back. Fair's fair.
 
I understand. But I have to agree that singular "they" is SO much better in terms of use than "he or she". That's how much I hate "he or she" because it's just too wordy and, well, just awkward.
 
Came and checked to see if this is done or not. I don't want projects to be abandoned. I handled this type of scenario when I was writing Mario Party series mini-game articles back then. It was somewhat stale to keep repeating the word "player", or "they" all the time because I have to write a set of rules and instructions on how the mini-game is played out. Maybe better writing would've alleviate that in the past.

I was about to create a list of articles that need fixing, but the wiki's built-in search engine only grabs up to one thousand results, and search engines might've not capture all the results. So to easy myself and others, I decided to list down keyboard suggestions to use for the wiki's search engine.

The thing is that the search engine the wiki has only pulls up exact words. Utilizing the quotation marks makes all the difference (with certain bugging exceptions). Here's the list:
  • "he/she"
  • "he or she"
  • "she or he"
  • "he, she or they"
However, there are some entires that don't work in the wiki search engine. It will probably had to be entered on a mainstream search engine:
  • "s/he"
  • "him/her"
As a last resort, in the sense that you either can't get all of them, or that you feel that's not enough, use a search engine as your tool to find those entries. Utilize "-user" in the search box by having it and not having it, both of them will have unique search results not found one over the other.

There might be more obscure ones that we don't know; I found out "he, she or they" by accident.

Repeat this until there are no entries. Even better yet, to make sure users are better prepared to tackle this very same problem: put in the same instructions as this post in the guidelines so users can jumpstart their work and be done with it.


By the way, it's time for me to call in a discussion regarding the term "player(s)", having the "(s)" plugged in. I searched up Google by using this entry:
site:mariowiki.com "player(s)"
Click to expand...
And came up several results for this. I'm not sure if this sounds correct for that it allows the user to say either "player" or "players". "They" sounds like a worthy replacement. It doesn't say these are not allowed. Should this be clarified/refined in the MarioWiki:Manual of Style?
 
RAP said:
By the way, it's time for me to call in a discussion regarding the term "player(s)", having the "(s)" plugged in. I searched up Google by using this entry:
site:mariowiki.com "player(s)"
Click to expand...
And came up several results for this. I'm not sure if this sounds correct for that it allows the user to say either "player" or "players". "They" sounds like a worthy replacement. It doesn't say these are not allowed. Should this be clarified/refined in the MarioWiki:Manual of Style?
Click to expand...
I also dislike the use of "player(s)". In terms of a replacement for this word, I wouldn't agree on substituting it for "they" all the time. You'd need to mention the involvement of the players initially, and then refer to them as "they" thereafter. Or else it doesn't sound right. Also, the use of "the player" should only be when the particular game is only played solo (i.e. not multiplayer). "Players" could refer to both players in general, and articles where multiple people are able to play, like the Mario Party series minigames. So it's case by case, and whichever word is better suited would logically get the spot. And yes, I do agree that it should get it's own point in the Manual of Style, along with some possible notes about the same goals of this very thread.
 
Wondering if we have to pass a proposal to change/add more rules regarding outright not using "Yous" or "You". I'm questioning whether proposals are for little things instead of proposals potentially having big impacts. For instance, in Template_talk:DidYouKnow, I suggested an archive of previous DidYouKnow entries so that users who wanted to read more trivia more with more accessibility can read it from the beginning to the latest. User:YoshiKong popped up and suggested on creating a proposal to approve this. I mean, I only created two proposals (three if you count my collaboration with Knife) that critically affects the ways the wiki functions. The three are (in order of creation):
I don't think there are any proposals asking permission on adding something, unless that counts as a "New Feature".
 
I noticed something kinda strange:

Some proposals are written twice on the wiki.

For example, http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_21#Move_Galleries_from_Main_Articles_into_Gallery_Articles and http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/2010/58 are the same proposals.

I don't see the point of this?

EDIT: I haven't posted this in the right topic :/
 
Yeah, as I explained over in the proposal archive collab thread, there was a short-lived plan to give all archives proposals separate subpages. Once we're done upgrading MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive, I (and any other sysop who's interested) will go around and delete the subpages. (No need for anyone to tag them for deletion in the meantime, or whatever, by the way: there should be links to all of 'em in one of RAP's old drafts that we can then use for search&destroy purposes.)


RAP said:
Wondering if we have to pass a proposal to change/add more rules regarding outright not using "Yous" or "You". I'm questioning whether proposals are for little things instead of proposals potentially having big impacts. For instance, in Template_talk:DidYouKnow, I suggested an archive of previous DidYouKnow entries so that users who wanted to read more trivia more with more accessibility can read it from the beginning to the latest. User:YoshiKong popped up and suggested on creating a proposal to approve this.

I don't think there are any proposals asking permission on adding something, unless that counts as a "New Feature".
Click to expand...
The "no 'you'"s thing is already an established, actively enforced rule: there's absolutely no need for a proposal about it.

Proposals have a wide range of scopes, but they're not necessary for everything. Minor changes that aren't likely to be contested usually don't need 'em, and the admins periodically pass new rules n' things without proposals (again, generally small things). However, making an archive isn't minor, so yeah, that idea would require a proposal. There are tonnes of proposals in the archives about adding things: why wouldn't there be?
 
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