Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS Discussion

[Time Turner]

Ike and Luigi are not clones! Especially Ike.

They've certainly got quite a few points in common with Marth and Mario, respectively.

 

[yoshi123]

All I see for Ike & Marth is that they share a Sword, Down Smash & Counter, don't see how they're close to being clones lol

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Reversinator. Toon Link was probably one of the more "clone-ier" ones.

Ike and Luigi are not clones!

Not to start arguments or the whole Ness/Lucas thing again or anything, but I'm interested in hearing why you think Mario & Luigi aren't (semi-)clones but Ness and Lucas are. =P

 

[New Super Mario]

All I see for Ike & Marth is that they share a Sword, Down Smash & Counter, don't see how they're close to being clones lol

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Reversinator. Toon Link was probably one of the more "clone-ier" ones.

Ike and Luigi are not clones!

Not to start arguments or the whole Ness/Lucas thing again or anything, but I'm interested in hearing why you think Mario & Luigi aren't (semi-)clones but Ness and Lucas are. =P

Mario and Luigi only share two specials and I think Ness and Lucas share 3 and a final smash. Sure, Ness and Lucas have different playstyles, but they still have the same moves. (and I more so want Lucas gone just cause I really don't think Earthbound needs two reps atm)

But come on, Ike and Marth are totally different.

 

[yoshi123]

All I see for Ike & Marth is that they share a Sword, Down Smash & Counter, don't see how they're close to being clones lol

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Reversinator. Toon Link was probably one of the more "clone-ier" ones.

Ike and Luigi are not clones!

Not to start arguments or the whole Ness/Lucas thing again or anything, but I'm interested in hearing why you think Mario & Luigi aren't (semi-)clones but Ness and Lucas are. =P

Mario and Luigi only share two specials and I think Ness and Lucas share 3 and a final smash. Sure, Ness and Lucas have different playstyles, but they still have the same moves. (and I more so want Lucas gone just cause I really don't think Earthbound needs two reps atm)

If characters have different playstyles though, doesn't that not make them clones?

They share WAY more than just 2 specials...

Spoiler: Moves that Mario & Luigi share

Tilts: Forward Tilt, (maybe?) Down Tilt and Up Tilt (Jabs are a bit debatable though for Jabs most characters tend to have a 3 hit combo and usually share same animation so I'm not counting that :p)

Smashes: Up Smash and Down Smash are the same thing with the same animation other than power...

Aerials: Up Air, Back Air, Neutral Air (then again most characters have Neutral Airs which are a sex kick)

Grabs/Throws: All 4 throws and the pummel share the exact same animation and the same purpose.

Mario can actually approach, can juggle pretty well (Up Air and Up Tilt work very well on heavies), can interfere with recoveries and has decent speed but forgoes KO power and has a mediocre recovery, while Luigi can juggle just as well, can recover well (Green Missile and Luigi Cyclone are pretty helpful), has great KO power, but has poor traction (he slides all over the place and it makes it hard for him to approach except with Luigi Cyclone lol) and is one of the slowest characters in Brawl.
At worst though, I'd label them semi-clones since parts of their playstyles and about 1/2 or 1/3 of their moves are pretty similar, but the differences are enough to not be considered clones.

Spoiler: Moves that Ness & Lucas share

Tilts: Down Tilt (animation is a bit different but it's a quick kick and both can cause tripping lol)

Smashes: Forward Smash

Specials: PK Fire, PK Thunder, PSI Magnet

Aerials: Up Air

Grabs: Pummel (but most characters share a headbutt animation when they pummel someone before throwing anyways, so...)

And a Final Smash.

I've already explained Ness & Lucas' playstyles before and other things on those 2 lol

And I don't really think Earthbound needs like 3 or 4 characters or anything, but I thought 2 characters would be decent. =P

 

[New Super Mario]

Um, yeah, special moves, like b-moves.

The other moves really don't make much of a difference if they're the same or not. (in terms of, if they feel cloney or not)

 

[Peachy]

Mario and Luigi only share two specials and I think Ness and Lucas share 3 and a final smash. Sure, Ness and Lucas have different playstyles, but they still have the same moves. (and I more so want Lucas gone just cause I really don't think Earthbound needs two reps atm)

But come on, Ike and Marth are totally different.

You kind of just contradicted yourself there. You just said they have different playstyles, which auto-means they are not clones lol

Which they are not. PK Fire/PK Thunder may be the same named moved, but is used so differently when using one of the PSI boys. Their playstyles are drastically different. Play as Ness, then play as Lucas (or vice versa), I mean one right after the other, match to match. You'll see their playstyles are nothing alike and not similar in the slightest.

Also, if you wanna know what clones are, look at Melee. Look at characters like Fox/Falco, Pikachu/Pichu, Link/Young Link, Marth/Roy, C.Falcon/Ganondorf. Literally, the only difference between them are stats and some different way of using fighting attacks, but they are exactly the same.

Um, yeah, special moves, like b-moves.

The other moves really don't make much of a difference if they're the same or not. (in terms of, if they feel cloney or not)

But Ness/Lucas' specials are not executed the same way...

 

[Iggy Koopa Jr]

I love Kirby in the Smash Bros, and I hope they didn't change the final smash. Or mabye thhey are going to make his smash the Ultra Sword or something more recent.

 

[Duskull]

Could work, they might also implement the other ones so there could be multiple Final Smashes

 

[Iggy Koopa Jr]

Could work, they might also implement the other ones so there could be multiple Final Smashes

Multiple? That might work. Or not. One is enough.

 

[DragonFreak]

I think that at least Toon Link was the least clone-y of the clones

Luigi, Lucas, Lucario, Ike, if you're in the mood to start arguments... There are plenty of clones that are less "clone-y" than Toon Link.

Wait, who's Lucario a clone of?

 

[Zae]

I think that at least Toon Link was the least clone-y of the clones

Luigi, Lucas, Lucario, Ike, if you're in the mood to start arguments... There are plenty of clones that are less "clone-y" than Toon Link.

Wait, who's Lucario a clone of?

he isnt, but people think he just replaced mewtwo.

 

[DragonFreak]

I see. Well, I guess he kind of did.

 

[GalacticPetey]

On the subject of Toon Link, I have an idea as to how to make him different.

All of his sword moves are different than Link's. I.E. his aerials, smashes, tilts, throws, and dash attacks.
Give him Young Link's fire arrows.
His side special is replaced with the Wind Waker that creates a gust of wind to blow the opponent away and does some damage. Link gets his regular boomerang.
Up special traps opponents like Young Link and Toon Link in Brawl.
Different physics like size, shape, weight and speed. Make Toon Link a quick and light character. Make Link a heavy fighter.

 

[Ray Trace]

At least make Toon Link use the Deku Leaf for a recovery

 

[Rocker64]

There is only one true clone:

Dr. Mario

 

[GalacticPetey]

Technically, Mewtwo is a clone. He's a clone of mew.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

@Reversinator, my point was that people should stop complaining because it's not like this addition of a returning character will destroy the game.

 

[DragonFreak]

Technically, Mewtwo is a clone. He's a clone of mew.

Yeah, why wasn't Mew every playable? Mew is so much better than Mewtwo IMO.

 

[Tyrell Badd]

@Reversinator, my point was that people should stop complaining because it's not like this addition of a returning character will destroy the game.

It won't destroy the game, but it means one less spot for a potential newcomer, especially since the 3DS limits the character roster of the Wii U significantly. I like Toon Link, but you're kidding yourself if you there aren't other potential newcomers from the same series (i.e. Skull Kid; not Ghirahim because he's a terrible character).

 

[Magikrazy]

I just read the last page. Everyone was fighting over clones.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/clone
There you go. Read it.

 

[SonicMario]

especially since the 3DS limits the character roster of the Wii U significantly.

I don't think it effects it that much myself. The 3DS maximum filesize is almost as big as a Wii disc's limit. And most of Brawl's Data was spent on Subspace + the Soundtrack.

 

[Time Turner]

there's a term ssb called sex kick in reference to ssb

why

 

[Mario4Ever]

Because of Matt Deezie, who I guess is "the founder of competitive play."

 

[Tyrell Badd]

there's a term ssb called sex kick in reference to ssb

why

Spoiler: explicit content and nudity

why isn't "sex kick" a move in pokemon yet?

 

[Iggy Koopa Jr]

I always loved Kirby in the series. I really am impatient the stages in 3DS. But seeing that in the Spirit Tracks platform, Toon Link conducts the train, there will be 2 Toon Links at the same time.