Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS Discussion

[Ray Trace]

if only we can assign voice clips to olimar......

he's the best character to port baby luigi over proportion-wise

 

[YoshiGo99]

I have done something good, and I probably won't go any further than that with this. It's Omega Saffron City, I can probably make Omega stages for the other N64 stages that didn't make it in. I am clueless on lighting and all that jazz to make the stage perfect.

Spoiler

 

[GalacticPetey]

New tier list is out. From the Smash 4 Backroom on Smashboards

--------------------TOP--------------------
S: Diddy Kong, Cloud, Sheik, Rosalina, Mario, Sonic, Fox
A: Zero Suit Samus, Ryu, Mewtwo, Bayonetta
-------------------HIGH--------------------
B: Pikachu, Meta Knight, Villager, Mega Man, Ness
C: Toon Link, Corrin, Marth, Captain Falcon, Greninja, Lucario
--------------------MID---------------------
D: Yoshi, Pit, Donkey Kong, Peach, Dark Pit, R.O.B., Luigi
E: Olimar, Robin, Bowser, Lucas, Wario, Ike, Lucina
--------------------LOW-------------------
F: Mr. Game & Watch, Pac-Man, Little Mac, Palutena, Kirby, Duck Hunt, Link
G: Shulk, Samus, Wii Fit Trainer, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Falco, Roy
------------------BOTTOM----------------
H: Charizard, King Dedede, Zelda, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff

 

[Magikrazy]

Rest in Pac peace

 

[Weasel]

i'm so glad mewtwo isn't utter trash anymore

 

[GalacticPetey]

Same with Marth. He's still not as dominant as his Melee or Brawl incarnations but he's been getting better.

 

[freakworld]

mario is s tier?

when did that happen lol

and how is dr. mario G tier then, they are not /that/ fundamentally different

 

[GalacticPetey]

It's simple.

Mario is good. Doc is bad. Besides, Marth and Roy are on opposite ends of the list in Melee.

 

[freakworld]

It's simple.

Mario is good. Doc is bad.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Oh, I don't know, Mario won those measly national tournaments like GOML 2016 and Smash 'N' Splash 2, and CEO 2016 or whatever.

Doc has a pretty different playstyle, by the way. I don't think Doc in of himself is a horrible character, but he's just inferior to Mario in nearly every way.

 

[Ray Trace]

Huh I expected Bayo to be higher

Is it the nerf, not enough time, or both?

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Really? I'm a bit surprised Bayonetta retained her very viable standing despite all her major nerfs. Diddy and Sheik too. I guess it's just a testament of how good these characters really are.

 

[GBA]

i'm so glad mewtwo isn't utter trash anymore

his placement is the most surprising to me, what did they fix about him? i haven't played this in months

 

[GalacticPetey]

Since he was added, they've done a number of things. Improved his overall speed, decreased landing lag on aerials, improved some hitbox sizes and durations, increased damage on some moves. He actually dashes faster than Sheik now.

This explains it:
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Mewtwo_(SSB4)#Update_history

 

[YoshiGo99]

So I've been doing some modding. I remade the entire made from scratch, I just need to scale it properly, the rest of the stuff such as collision and lighting I don't know how to do. There's also some tweaks that need to be made such as the background (it should be smooth)

I did an Omega version too.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

^Thats actually a really cool stage.

I don't think that the new tier list has accurate placings for the characters, so far most of the changes have been placed off results in tournaments, which is heavily affected by what character people decide to main. Dark Pit was better than Pit in the last list, now he's not and there are two characters between them even though they are still really similar. Although Marty is obviously better than Lucina, they are way too far apart. Dr. Mario and Roy I can understand since they have a lot of differences.

 

[GalacticPetey]

All tier lists go off of tournament results. If a character is doing good in tournament, that usually means they're a good character. Compared to a game like Melee, Smash 4 is still young. The tier list two years from now will probably look different and more accurate.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

I always view their lists as how good the character is, not how viable the character is in tournaments, so maybe it's just that my view is wrong.

 

[Magikrazy]

Also the full bottom tier list is Charizard, Dedede, Mii Gunner, Mii Brawler, Zelda, Ganondorf, Mii Swordfighter, Jigglypuff.

 

[Cirdec]

Ganondorf, trash tier since Brawl...
Well at least Mewtwo is good now.

 

[Ray Trace]

I always view their lists as how good the character is, not how viable the character is in tournaments, so maybe it's just that my view is wrong.

It is wrong for several reasons.

First character 1 v 1 battles in a controlled environment like tournaments are the best way to test a characters movesets; this system is the most alike to science even. Multiple tournaments are like multiple tests performed so that's when people start compiling lists like these off results from said controlled environment.

Second, player skill is still a pretty huge factor. Competitive players that you should not let your guard down when facing a lower tier character, they can still have plenty of skill to back them up. However the character disadvantages put them at a disadvantage too which is something they are well aware of hence why they don't place as high as they like. I mean some metagame was developed in the past with lower tier characters like in Melee, gimpyfish Bowser who placed pretty highly for a Melee Bowser.

Tier lists are complex and take a lot of knowledge to fully understand how they operate.

 

[Ray Trace]

Well

The Good: It's playable

The Bad: Literally everything else

I don't know why the rig implodes in the root bone of this model, need to look into that.

 

[Crypt Raider]

I always view their lists as how good the character is, not how viable the character is in tournaments, so maybe it's just that my view is wrong.

It is wrong for several reasons.

First character 1 v 1 battles in a controlled environment like tournaments are the best way to test a characters movesets; this system is the most alike to science even. Multiple tournaments are like multiple tests performed so that's when people start compiling lists like these off results from said controlled environment.

Second, player skill is still a pretty huge factor. Competitive players that you should not let your guard down when facing a lower tier character, they can still have plenty of skill to back them up. However the character disadvantages put them at a disadvantage too which is something they are well aware of hence why they don't place as high as they like. I mean some metagame was developed in the past with lower tier characters like in Melee, gimpyfish Bowser who placed pretty highly for a Melee Bowser.

Tier lists are complex and take a lot of knowledge to fully understand how they operate.

Tournament results are indicators and not data. Player pool, skill, and metagame, in addition to defining what tournaments are significant (the Superbowl vs. some weekly event in Minnesota vs. some regional where 2 top players decided to fly to) are fluctuating way too much to just say "Mario had an average placing of 27.4, the highest of any character, so Mario is #1". So tier lists are often subjugated to personal opinion and perspective, the backroom's tier list is a compilation of a lot of higher up players giving their personal ranking and not backed with anything scientific.

A note about low tiers, they often do better than you would think because most players are very unfamiliar with them and thus fall for things they shouldn't. Amsa (the Red Yoshi meme guy) was top 20 in the world, but not even the best in Japan, because the Japanese scene knew the matchup way more thoroughly than Mew2king and Mango did.

 

[Starlight24]

The only mod i have done in Smash is this one, which i really like.

I enjoy Kerri Kane's original portrayal , but having the chance to actually customize some of Laura's clips is a big yes on my part. I love a more womanly Rosalina delivered from her.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Well

The Good: It's playable

The Bad: Literally everything else

I don't know why the rig implodes in the root bone of this model, need to look into that.

That's pretty cool so far. Is it over Olimar?

I haven't looked into Smash 4 modding yet but it seems pretty easy. Can it be done on PAL Wii Us yet?