Princess Céline
It's teatime!
I want Shovel Knight.
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS Discussion
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Tyrell Badd
"The hated boss who beats you down..."
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You know who else has an amiibo?
Resetti
Resetti for Smash Switch
Resetti
Resetti for Smash Switch
SonicMario
Star Spirit
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memoryman3 said:
Am I missing something? When did I mention a Zelda character anywhere I said in my previous post? Unless you're referring to how I was fine with Impa in the previous post before that one which was a reply to your roster in which you put Impa in. I was literally just posting what was in my opinion that I liked and/or would be ok with, and/or disagree with your roster.
I still have yet to see how Daisy is at all important to Video Game history. Or how she's on a level that most of the Mario characters already in Smash are. Daisy getting merchandise, Amiibos, playable in spin-off titles mean nothing compared to notable presence in multiple mainline games. Notice how that's something that Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., and Rosalina all have in common while Daisy remains relatively unacknowledged in these games.
The only Mario representative Daisy has an argument against is Dr. Mario, but even he represents an entire series of puzzle games that have been around since the early 90's and while I would prefer he had been an alt. costume. He is still Mario himself.
All three of those examples were CENTRAL CHARACTERS TO MAINLINE GAMES FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE FRANCHISES.
If Smash Bros. was a Mario centered game. You'd have a point. But it's not. It represents all of Nintendo plus a little extension into gaming as a whole with the 3rd Party characters. Mario's the flagship franchise of Nintendo so naturally it's going to get a good chunk of representation. But that doesn't mean we should rush to put every character that's commonly playable in the spin-offs cause that often means less room for franchises that could use the Smash Bros. exposure to gain more popularity. Which both the MOTHER/Earthbound and Fire Emblem series have done. I would much rather we get introduced to new characters from franchises I've never played through Smash then overwhelm the roster with one series even if it is the flagship franchise.
And I just don't see how Daisy is at all important enough. No amiibo, no merchandise, no new mario party/mario kart/mario maker costume/any new mario sports game/any other kind of Mario spin-off that includes Daisy as a playable is going to change that. Daisy needs mainline game appearances. That or standards must lower alot for Mario newcomers. That'd be the day Daisy and Waluigi probably gets in Smash together. Showing us all that they've just about ran out of Mario newcomer ideas where we're including characters that have been spin-off fodder since the late 90's.
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Strange thing is, despite of being a spin-off only character, Waluigi still received an Assist Trophy before any other Mario character aside from some generic enemies.
Princess Céline
It's teatime!
Well, Daisy has three trophies in Smash 4 (four if you count Baby Daisy), and she has had a trophy since Melee.
Then again, Waluigi has also had a trophy since Melee and I think it is possible but unlikely that he will be "promoted to playable", like Charizard and Little Mac before him.
Then again, Waluigi has also had a trophy since Melee and I think it is possible but unlikely that he will be "promoted to playable", like Charizard and Little Mac before him.
MnSG
Cosmic Beauty
Rusty Bucket Bay said:
Waluigi has been a spin-off only character though. Whereas for Charizard and Little Mac, they actually are affiliated with mainstream titles.
In fact, it should be noted that all of the playable Pokemon in Smash 3DS / Wii U are Kalos region natives, and they can be acquired in either Pokemon X or Pokemon Y.
MnSG said:
Siiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhh
why is it always the Rosalina fans who like to bring this up? You do realise that the amiibo are part of the main series Mario line....right? Also, I laugh at the people who make these horrible, made up rules about "spin-offs' when apparently, someone like King K Rool, who has not been relevant to DK for almost a decade...if ever, is deserving. I mean, there was once a game that had Daisy as a captain....and Dixie Kong and King K Rool were just crew fodder. Why are 'spin-offs' so detrimental? They are Mario games, just like how Mario Galaxy is a Mario game. They keep making them, and they keep putting characters like Daisy in them all the time. Enough for her to be the second most recurring female video game character of all time.
I think we just have to wait and see. If Daisy comes in, and she kicks butt, I bet you will see a lot of very happy Mario fans, and she'll be generally liked. None of this lame 'spin-off' talk.
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
Guys, stop giving memoryman the time of day. He's delusional and doesn't know what he's talking about. It's best to ignore him and if you're going to talk character speculation, do it with someone who knows what they're talking about.
GalacticPetey said:
Yes, so everyone who doesn't think Daisy has a chance 'knows what they're talking about'? Please. When did fans start making up terms such as spinoff characters?
memoryman3 said:
Oh please, so what she has an amiibo, she still hasnt appeared in a single main game EVER since sml, and nintendo still doesnt care about the rpgs, its been proven over and over again because 9 times out of 10 they still are just regarded to spin-offs, the rpg characters, waluigi, and so forth are nothing more then sidelines that have no significant impact, they got trophies almost everything ever in nintendo games, which doesnt mean anything.
It's not false logic, its the proven logic of nintendo. You prove to me, that daisy has appeared in a main mario game since sml, and maybe ill think otherwise, because as someone that doesnt mind daisy, there really is no point in hoping for a playable position in smash, like seriously.
I can see the bloody ass from here.
and gp is right, since you think lucas and lucina didnt have a following and probably didnt even register that they're main characters of their own games.
Daisy is not even a character in her own game, she's a plot mcguffin if anything.
Considering the existence of Jigglypuff and Luigi's status during the 64 era, 'relevancy' and all that nonsense doesn't mean anything. It never has since the original, notably because Samus didn't even have an N64 game.
It just happens. Doesn't matter if it's good, bad, or eh, it just happens.
It just happens. Doesn't matter if it's good, bad, or eh, it just happens.
MnSG
Cosmic Beauty
I've done a good amount of hacks for Smash Wii U, but there's one moveset hack that I set up a few weeks ago that improves Duck Hunt's Wild Gunman special move. Normally that move struggles to KO even the lightest fighters.
Note: The data below uses Mario as a test subject in Training. The KO% may not be fully accurate, especially for the gunman with the black suit.
Wild Gunman
Damage dealt and knockback growth have been buffed. The sombrero gunman now has KO potential, being able to KO even the heaviest fighters before their current damage hits 150%.
Quick Draw Aces
When compared to Wild Gunman, Quick Draw Aces increases the damage dealt by 5 for each gunman, but each gunman has less attack range. Additionally, because they attack quicker, their knockback is weaker, which also means that they make KOs later than normal.
Mega Gunman
This custom special move received the most significant buff. When compared to Wild Gunman, Mega Gunman increases the damage dealt by 10 for each gunman, and their knockback growth is increased further as well. As a result, their shots have become comparable to Little Mac's KO Uppercut. However, the shots can still be blocked, and the giant sized gunmen have a large start-up delay before attacking. Also, the gunmen's size increase means that shorter characters and characters who can crouch low can potentially avoid any shots made by the gunmen. However, the sombrero gunman's shots can hit even the shortest fighters, and his shots can KO even the heaviest fighters before their current damage hits 50%. In fact, all gunmen (including the bearded gunman with the red scarf) can make KOs before their opponents' current damage hits 100%.
Final Notes
If you're able to do hacks for Smash Wii U, you can always try out these buffs by heading to the following link.
http://gamebanana.com/gamefiles/5207
Note: The data below uses Mario as a test subject in Training. The KO% may not be fully accurate, especially for the gunman with the black suit.
Wild Gunman
Damage dealt and knockback growth have been buffed. The sombrero gunman now has KO potential, being able to KO even the heaviest fighters before their current damage hits 150%.
Quick Draw Aces
When compared to Wild Gunman, Quick Draw Aces increases the damage dealt by 5 for each gunman, but each gunman has less attack range. Additionally, because they attack quicker, their knockback is weaker, which also means that they make KOs later than normal.
Mega Gunman
This custom special move received the most significant buff. When compared to Wild Gunman, Mega Gunman increases the damage dealt by 10 for each gunman, and their knockback growth is increased further as well. As a result, their shots have become comparable to Little Mac's KO Uppercut. However, the shots can still be blocked, and the giant sized gunmen have a large start-up delay before attacking. Also, the gunmen's size increase means that shorter characters and characters who can crouch low can potentially avoid any shots made by the gunmen. However, the sombrero gunman's shots can hit even the shortest fighters, and his shots can KO even the heaviest fighters before their current damage hits 50%. In fact, all gunmen (including the bearded gunman with the red scarf) can make KOs before their opponents' current damage hits 100%.
Final Notes
If you're able to do hacks for Smash Wii U, you can always try out these buffs by heading to the following link.
http://gamebanana.com/gamefiles/5207
Lady Rosalina said:
Whoa Whoa WHOA there Rosalina fan, no need to get on your high horse and act all high and mighty now that she's in Smash. Are you seriously suggesting someone like Lucina or Lucas had a greater following than Daisy, just because of your bias against sports games? Heck, Lucas and Roy were non existent in the states before Smash! If we can have someone like them, there is NO reason why Daisy should not be in Smash Switch. I think it is a good thing that we have all the "main Mario characters" (correction: we don't), as it leaves the door open to her.
In fact, I am going to say that she is a shoo in. Why? If you noticed, some of the main developers behind Smash 4 are working on Mario Sports Superstars...with Daisy promotional content ahoy. The timing is perfect. She WILL get in.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
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7GrandDad said:
You may have somewhat of a point on Samus. But Jigglypuff and Luigi are kind of bad examples.
Pokemon was HUGE at the time Smash Bros. was being developed. Pokemon was literally everywhere and it's a peak that the Pokemon series have not matched since. And besides obviously Pikachu, Jigglypuff was another one of the Pokemon being promoted alot in the Anime as she often appeared in a few episodes not to mention she was the most popular Pokemon in Japan at that time. Jigglypuff also worked as an easy character to make since Sakurai could base her off Kirby a bit. Many convenient things at the same time worked for Jigglypuff to get in Smash 64
As for Luigi not only was he also an easy character to make just basing off Mario but he's the natural 2nd choice for a Mario rep (Notice that Mario and Pokemon are the only franchises to get two characters with the same symbol in the original Smash 64)
Though even going back a bit on Samus. If you kinda notice how rosters go with the Smash games they seem to base alot on what were big franchises on the previous console generation. And before the N64 was the SNES. The only exception to that was of course the Pokemon characters which were on Game Boy, but again that's due to just how big Pokemon was booming at the time. On the SNES you had the many Mario games (Which both Mario and Luigi were playable on), Donkey Kong Country, A Link To The Past, Super Metroid, the first F-Zero, Earthbound/MOTHER 2, Yoshi's Island, Kirby's Dream Land 3 + Kirby Super Star, and the original Star Fox
Some of those characters are updated to reflect any N64 games they had at the time. But they were all in a sense relevant to the SNES era of gaming. If you look at future rosters notice how most of the Melee Newcomers have something to do with a N64 game. Same with Brawl's when you look at the newcomers in the Gamecube and/or Game Boy Advance lineup (It could even be argued Sonic and Snake go along with this. Metal Gear Solid 2 got a Gamecube port and there were many Sonic games on the Gamecube and GBA). And it couldn't possibly be argued that Smash 4 didn't do it's job to represent some top-sellers of the Wii Era when you have the Miis, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, and Little Mac.
If you want to look at relevancy anomalies then look no further then the retro representatives that Sakurai likes to pull at least once per game since Melee. You had Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch in Melee, ROB in Brawl, and Duck Hunt in Smash 4. But for the exception of the Ice Climbers (Which admittedly may have been included just for their unique duo properties) they represented a pretty important part of history or certain accessory (Like the Zapper) for Nintendo.
memoryman3 said:
alright dude
you can make it all up, if you want to be delusional and ignore that these are main characters, if you are so incompetent to ignore what anyone else says regardless of their fandoms or not, then whatever.
It's fully obvious, that you cant listen to any sort of criticism that doesnt fit your fantasy.
It's very apparent that you are just an attention whore and nothing more, since nothing you say makes sense and you always seem to be the most interested in being a bad representation of any fan of daisy, good job.
and im done with this, its a wasted effort, so have fun guys.
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I think it's pretty obvious that Nintendo has to be very choosy when it comes to managing limited resources in a now-highly anticipated game, but I think it's totally fine they include Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt since they're interesting additions in of themselves. In the meantime, I'd welcome Tamagon, Takamaru, or a car from FX Race (or whatever that game is) as a playable character, they seem worthy, yet obscure, to be the next retro WTF addition.Northern Verve said:
Though we kinda go back to my point that Sakurai chooses whoever he wants, breaking a lot of the "rules" fans like to set up, to be honest.
SonicMario
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LeftyGreenMario said:
Yeah I wasn't saying that there was something wrong with them of going a little outside-the-box when it comes to characters that weren't important or popular in the previous and/or current console generation. As I do like that Sakurai handpicks at least one retro choice that he feels he could make a new moveset for. Often a moveset you don't often see in fighting games.
But what I like most is certainly that regardless of how surprising they are, they still represent something in Nintendo's long history. Examples including Mr. Game and Watch representing the first time Nintendo dabbled into video games with the two-screen design of some Game and Watches still relevant to this day via the DS and 3DS family. Along with ROB which was a peripheral disguised as a toy so that NES systems would still sell even as the Video Game Crash of 1983 threatened to destroy that market altogether.
Though sometimes the character just provides a unique way to fight that the other characters don't provide. The Ice Climbers game by itself probably isn't really an important part of gaming. But it fit with a plan Sakurai wanted for a 2 characters fighting as 1 kind of deal. (Which is why I kinda understand the view of some people who say "Both Ice Climbers or Bust" even if having just a single Ice Climber would make sure they stayed in Smash 4) And there is potential for other characters who's games that may have not been that big but certainly would provide fun moveset potential in Smash.
Northern Verve said:
So would someone like Daisy, who could properly represent a big part of Mario that is very overlooked on message boards. Aren't the Smash 4 team developing Sports Superstars?
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
Even if Sakurai does decide to represent the spin-offs with a character, which is clearly of low importance to him, it would most likely be Waluigi. The fact that he was chosen to be an assist trophy over several other Mario characters should make it very clear that when Sakurai thinks about the spin-offs, his mind drifts to Waluigi first. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch for him to make the same jump Little Mac did from assist to playable.
The situation right now is this: Sakurai hasn't given the spin-offs much thought in regards to representation on the roster. They are either low priority, or of no concern at all. And the one time he does reference them with an assist, he chooses Waluigi to be the face of those games.
The only advantage Daisy has going for her over Waluigi is that her model would take less time to create since he could build it off of Peach and borrow some of her attacks. But Waluigi just makes more sense for a possible spin-off character.
The situation right now is this: Sakurai hasn't given the spin-offs much thought in regards to representation on the roster. They are either low priority, or of no concern at all. And the one time he does reference them with an assist, he chooses Waluigi to be the face of those games.
The only advantage Daisy has going for her over Waluigi is that her model would take less time to create since he could build it off of Peach and borrow some of her attacks. But Waluigi just makes more sense for a possible spin-off character.
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My response was mainly to 7Northern Verve said:
What characters I do NOT like is Corrin, though, especially since he's tied as DLC so I'll probably get my ass whupped in Mario vs. Corrin MUs. Otherwise, though, it's annoying (for me) to miss out on characters simply because I don't like them and don't like to fork a bunch of dollars for a character I won't use.