Killjoys in gaming

Dimitri said:
Having to revisit or replay a level/dungeon in a game that you previously already "cleared", so your forced to go back and get another star/item/flagpole ect. in an area that is identical to an area that you played in the beggining of the game but the devs got lazy and decieded to recycle an entire world/level but change the enemys and color scheme.
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What is your opinion on cases where this happens, but something has changed to make the level feel different (time has passed, something out of the ordinary is happening while you're revisiting, the entire area was destroyed during your absence and it's now in ruins, etc.)?
 
Pokémon:
* Pokémon being able to escape your Pokeballs despite having only 1 HP or inflicted with a status effect.
* Pokémon that can't be gotten through normal means (events, post-game, trade, etc.)
* Changing your DS' clock causes all time based events to stop working.
* Pokémon left in the Day Care can't evolve, and you don't get to choose which moves they'll forget to make room for the new moves.
 
Oh shit, I completely forgot one of the biggest for me:

Gameplay elements that depend on luck alone. This can be everything, from critical hits, over the chance to capture a Pokémon, to having to fight the same enemy again and again because you want to get an item that they drop at a rate of 1/128. Luck-based mechanics like these are a relic from a time where video games weren't yet as complex as they are today and therefore couldn't afford a more intricate system. That excuse does not hold water anymore however.

I mean, how does it feel to lose because some random enemy got a critical hit? How does it feel to fight a boss battle for half an hour and to be close to victory, only to be hit by an attack that can randomly inflict three different status ailments, one of which is a paralyzing effect which makes you helpless while the boss reduces you to a pile of corpses? It's just frustrating. How is it to win a battle due to a lucky critical hit on your side? Maybe exciting at first, but what if you would have lost without that critical? You didn't win because of your own skill. Your achievement becomes worthless, why did you even bother with the battle?

Incidentally, this is one of the reasons I love Paper Mario so much. There's so little luck involved, battles are a lot like math puzzles. You always know (or can find out) which attack does how much damage, and how much more damage is necessary to defeat an enemy. This gives you the ability to plan ahead and strategize in a way I've seldom seen in other RPGs. It's amazing! It's also one of the few things where I prefer the original Paper Mario over TTYD, because the latter reintroduced the dreaded luck elements into a system that was fine without them. I'm looking at random-miss-fog and the bingo wheel here. Awful! :'(
 
What about Fire Emblem?

There's still an element of luck involved, but you can modify the odds in many different ways so that it ends up in your favor. Kind of like a math problem.
 
meh critical hits in games aren't really that important. About the only thing they amount to is giggles, as most games dont rely on them.

Item drop rates though piss me off and one of the things that has turned me off from many mmorpgs as well as games like borderlands(despite the fact that borderland games are fun, i just hate rare item drop rates).
 
Random encounters are bad enough, but when the developers make the boss rematches random encounters, like in Megaman Battle Network, that's an entirely different story, especially if certain conditions must be met for said boss to show up (I'm looking at you Bubble Man). To make things worse, if you want the best possible reward, you have to S-Rank them (finish the fight in under 30 seconds, you can't get hit at all, unless you have Guts Style, and you can't move).
 
Walhart said:
What about Fire Emblem?

There's still an element of luck involved, but you can modify the odds in many different ways so that it ends up in your favor. Kind of like a math problem.
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Oh didn't I love it when I lost Kyle because of a critical hit today.[/sarcasm]
 
Walhart said:
What about Fire Emblem?

There's still an element of luck involved, but you can modify the odds in many different ways so that it ends up in your favor. Kind of like a math problem.
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Fire Emblem doesn't fall victim to my rant.

Gameplay elements that depend on luck alone.
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It doesn't depend on luck alone. As you said, there's lots of different ways to manipulate the odds (through things like weapon choices or which unit to use against which enemy, etc), and while the final outcome is still random, you can see all the relevant odds and statistics on screen before every decision you make. That ultimately makes it ok.
 
Caliborn said:
I prefer the original Paper Mario over TTYD, because the latter reintroduced the dreaded luck elements into a system that was fine without them. I'm looking at random-miss-fog and the bingo wheel here. Awful! :'(
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You can use Bobbery's Bomb, Bob-Ombast, or his appeal to clear the fog. Flurrie's Gale Force might also work.

Also, the bingo is only bad if you get a poison mushroom bingo.
 
Caliborn said:
Gameplay elements that depend on luck alone.
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It doesn't depend on luck alone. As you said, there's lots of different ways to manipulate the odds (through things like weapon choices or which unit to use against which enemy, etc), and while the final outcome is still random, you can see all the relevant odds and statistics on screen before every decision you make. That ultimately makes it ok.
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Ah, okay.
 
Another reason why some like the original PM more than sequel is because I've heard the sequel has a lot of backtracking.
 
Poliswag said:
Caliborn said:
I prefer the original Paper Mario over TTYD, because the latter reintroduced the dreaded luck elements into a system that was fine without them. I'm looking at random-miss-fog and the bingo wheel here. Awful! :'(
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You can use Bobbery's Bomb, Bob-Ombast, or his appeal to clear the fog. Flurrie's Gale Force might also work.
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Yes, but IIRC every attack that somehow disturbs the battlefield has a chance to call the fog back, including Bobbery's attacks. Or at least that's what happened to me. Plus, switching back to Bobbery every second turn just to waste the partner attack to clear the fog is pretty tedious on its own.

NSY said:
Another reason why some like the original PM more than sequel is because I've heard the sequel has a lot of backtracking.
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I personally forgive the game for that because I think it is amazing in enough other regards.
 
psh you complain about fog when you haven't played a certain rpg where normal enemies have a 75% chance of causing instant death to a party member.


oh boy smt games can do this too, damn bosses and attacking 4 times in a row.
 
Zae said:
psh you complain about fog when you haven't played a certain rpg where normal enemies have a 75% chance of causing instant death to a party member.


oh boy smt games can do this too, dang bosses and attacking 4 times in a row.
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Get used to SMT's multiturn bosses, Mr. Seizure-Signature
 
Serge Breaker said:
Zae said:
psh you complain about fog when you haven't played a certain rpg where normal enemies have a 75% chance of causing instant death to a party member.


oh boy smt games can do this too, dang bosses and attacking 4 times in a row.
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Get used to SMT's multiturn bosses, Mr. Seizure-Signature
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I already am used to it really, i still need to slaughter matador.

Freaking bastard that dude is.
 
BEEEEEAAARRRS said:
creepers blowing up and wrecking the terrain even though they were nowhere near you
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I love playing on superflat so when I see a crater in my wonderful land it greatly upsets me.
 
When a game suddenly takes a huge difficulty curve. I was plowing through story mode in BT3, then the fight with Kid Buu came. He kept spamming his rush. It didin't help that I had to play as Hercule for part of the fight. I had to keep re-trying that level.
 
When I'm playing with others and they become a killjoy themselves.

I just want to have fun and not get into an argument because something bad happened to them in the game.

It is because of this I tend to just play games alone.
 
General Zod said:
When a game suddenly takes a huge difficulty curve. I was plowing through story mode in BT3, then the fight with Kid Buu came. He kept spamming his rush. It didin't help that I had to play as Hercule for part of the fight. I had to keep re-trying that level.
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spam his specials.
 
Caliborn said:
This can be everything, from critical hits,
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I don't mind critical hits if I'm the one dealing them. ;)


you want to get an item that they drop at a rate of 1/128
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Fun times in EarthBound and Mother 3. Fun times.

I remember getting a fucking pizza from one of the Sharks at the beginning of the game in less than 5 minutes, but it took me over 2 hours to get the Sword of Kings. Really great stuff.
 
I'm rather annoyed whenever I have a normal Pokmeon use a super effective move with a high attack or special attack stat and the opposing Pokemon hangs on with a sliver of HP. Yet, when another one of my Pokemon uses it, the opposing Pokemon goes down in one hit. -_-

Also, I wouldn't call it luck based, but I hate how in Megaman Battle Network I have no control over what element my style change will be. Oh well, at least I can control what substyle I get.
 
The minigames from BIS.
 
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