Your headcanons

There's a difference between "bare bones" and "bare minimum". Creating the most basic Mario story that's already been done time and time again, only now some of the characters have a copy of themselves hanging out with them and playing the exact same role in the story, is bare minimum. Say what you want about M&L's plots but at least they've tried to be interesting (an evil witch wants to awaken a magic artifact, aliens invade the Mushroom Kingdom and also there's time travel, some weirdo takes over the kingdom and it's up to Bowser of all people to save the day, something something evil dream man). Sure, they're not always the most groundbreaking stories, but they're not doing the most trite things possible.

Also, "it's never been that great anyway" is a terrible defense for anything, honestly. If there's something that can be improved, then improve it. Don't use that as an excuse to let it wallow in poor quality, and absolutely do not make it even worse!
 
ZelenPixel said:
wait they have??? thats so cool i love worldbuilding
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From the Super Mario Odyssey article on Mario Wiki (citations available on the original website):

Super Mario Odyssey's theme is highly focused on "surprises" and "travel," and the developers incorporated many of their travel experiences around the world.[18] For instance, elements of the Sand Kingdom were derived from Kenta Motokura's experiences during a trip to Mexico, and the Luncheon Kingdom's food aesthetics was inspired by Italy and other European countries.[22]

The developers recognized that when people travel to foreign countries, something that really has an impact is the different currencies. Therefore, they wanted to have Mario collect and use different regional coins in each kingdom. Since the player travels outside the Mushroom Kingdom, the diverse art style between all the different kingdoms aimed to recreate the feelings of surprise and discovery when visiting foreign lands. It was also noted that a lot of time was spent in getting the right balance between familiar Mario concepts and completely new ones.
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We all know how terrible the game turned out will all this totally complementary attention to detail....................

Now, granted. This stuff took off as a need to contain the core mechanic of capturing enemies in a sandbox environment, and only further developed through a sort of domino effect. I agree gameplay is definitely something that should be championed first and foremost in a Nintendo game. However, worldbuilding, while not necessary in Mario games, makes the difference between the serviceable, if somewhat bland and disappointing (New Super Mario Bros.) and the excellent.
 
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Waluigi Time said:
There's a difference between "bare bones" and "bare minimum". Creating the most basic Mario story that's already been done time and time again, only now some of the characters have a copy of themselves hanging out with them and playing the exact same role in the story, is bare minimum. Say what you want about M&L's plots but at least they've tried to be interesting (an evil witch wants to awaken a magic artifact, aliens invade the Mushroom Kingdom and also there's time travel, some weirdo takes over the kingdom and it's up to Bowser of all people to save the day, something something evil dream man). Sure, they're not always the most groundbreaking stories, but they're not doing the most trite things possible.

Also, "it's never been that great anyway" is a terrible defense for anything, honestly. If there's something that can be improved, then improve it. Don't use that as an excuse to let it wallow in poor quality, and absolutely do not make it even worse!
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Ah yes, the ol "because the other ones were different from the usual stuff, that meant they had more effort in them" despite them still being extremely basic scenarios that have no more depth to them then the usual kidnapping scenario.

Look, the Mario & Luigi game plots have never been worth a crap for the stories in of themselves, what made them entertaining was the personalities of those involved and when it came to that Paper Jam has no less effort put into it than any other Mario & Luigi game. It just didn't have any new faces attached to them.

Also another thing that amuses me is that people always get so hung up on the "kidnapping peach" part of the plot when Paper Jam was ironically one of the few Mario & Luigi games where Peach is rescued only 3 quarters into the game with the real emphasis being put on recovering the book the paper people come from and stopping the Bowsers from conquering the world with their new souped up flying fortress.

Side note, not sure why Odyssey is being brought up when the M&L series has never had that level of "world building" and again is a mid budget light hearted rpg series compared to Odyssey being a large budget console game.
 
Odyssey was brought up to illustrate that good worldbuilding can enrich a game.

Mario & Luigi games may not be at the same scale as Odyssey, but from what I've seen the series still has a lot going for it in that area. Yes, new faces, new characters help make a game more fresh.

Look, you shouldn't feel cornered for liking more vanilla stuff in Mario. It's perfectly fine to. But don't deflect arguments that have never been made just to justify that your vision is "more right". I never said Odyssey is on the same level as M&L.
 
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I just find the notion of a Mario based crossover rpg actually making use of the primary characters of the franchise as "bad" ridiculous.

Like if you told me the game has too many mini games, the locals are kinda boring or that the game just wasn't fun then I'd get it but what characters it uses? Nah I don't see it, especially since more often then not the best characters in the M&L games were the long timers.
 
AlphaDream was in a declining state at that time so idk I wouldn't be surprised if the declining budget was the reason Paper Jam's universe felt bare-bones and cookie-cuttery at points.
 
I'd like to have an immerisve Mario game with a big cohesive world to explore, that being said. I only realize this after having played Breath of the Wild but as the plumber. Odyssey is nowhere near that scale but it provided a taste of the open nature of it? No other Mario games really do this. I'm not expecting it, as it's not Mario's style, but it'll be cool!
 
speculative biology nonsense incoming
i was talking about this on the mario wiki discord but, a few days ago, i somehow came up with this thing of piantas trees being... not real trees at all and they cant do plant things at all. this species name is a lie. basically its some structure that mainly serves for thermoregulation, as they evolved in a hot climate (i.. guess because they apparently did primarily live on mountains as the superstar baseball bio implies). so the leaves is their skin and they have muscles. for the leaves. yeah enjoy that
i think it just evolved to mimic trees for whatever reason. better disguise?
why does the tree have different colorations, and potentially has a flower, depending on the gender i Do Not Know. i guess it was just a combination of sexual selection, disguising with different trees for different niches, and "idk it just happened that way i guess". i also have no explanation for the tree spinning it just. Does, Inexplicably, which is funny i think

and yet despite all this stuff i still havent figured out just what kind of vertebrate (i decided to headcanon them as vertebrates to make this easier on myself) they are
 
yeah thatd be another function of it! not sure how much itd help shade considering the leaves are pretty small, but im sure it has some benefit
 
The DKC Cartoon is canon DK lore and I will not see any arguments to the contrary.
 
In the sports games that aren't based around a large team, Bowser always comes in 2nd behind Mario and he keeps getting involved in the hopes that he can one day beat him.
 
Donkey Kong might be decent in most sports, but he's utterly atrocious at golf. As far as bad sports players goes, Donkey Kong's golf performance is the worst. It is said that his golfing is so terrible, it emits its own unique smell, and people who run golf courses have to warn people of DK's presence.

Waluigi is amazing at golf and tennis, but terrible at any other sport. You'd think his height would give him an advantage in basketball, but people way shorter than him just dribble around him.

Peach doesn't really have a sport where she's bad at but I can't think of any sport where she's great at. I think she's probably good at tennis because she really can hit those corners.

Daisy's best sports are the ones she gets to beat people up in. Like soccer. Or boxing. Rumor has it she can beat Bowser at wrestling.

Luigi's best sports are soccer and baseball (like his brother, he always goes for shortstop). He's also good at kart racing to the point his room is filled with trophies and Mario is super jealous. On the other hand, Luigi is bad at golf and he's even worse at dodgeball.

Baby Luigi is amazing at tennis. It's just that he's way too shy to really participate, so that's why he's only been playable in one tennis game compared to Baby Mario's decent attendance. Baby Mario prefers kart racing the most (second dodgeball, and he's REALLY good at dodgeball. he also effortlessly does three pointers in basketball) but I think he'll beat the crap out of most people if they give him the opportunity. Baby Mario doesn't like golf because he's a guy of snap decisions.

Mario's favorite sport is probably golf but he's great at baseball (he always goes for shortstop) and basketball, and he's only okay at tennis and soccer. Mario is a subpar kart racer who consistently gets 5th or 6th. There's a reason despite the name ownership, his racing records are practically never world record times compared to Daisy, Funky, Toad, and others.

Bowser is too clumsy and bulky to be great at most sports. He's pretty bad at tennis and his golf shots go far but they're ridiculously imprecise. He excels in boxing because weight classes aren't a thing and he's also surprisingly good at twirling ribbons. I guess overall he's great at baseball, but only when batting and pitching. Bowser really hates dodgeball.

Toad does just fine in most sports. He does best when he's not in team sports because pressure for him to be a submissive sidekick is usually too much for him to handle.

Yoshi doesn't look like a character that'll excel in any sport, but maybe he can surprise people. He's decent at fielding in baseball, though he has a super weak arm. Maybe he should just spit the ball out. Yoshi does really bad at kart, but that's only because his nose really limits his visibility.

Bowser Jr.'s specialty is basketball. Just, basketball. I don't know how he does it, but he's so good at basketball, he humiliates Waluigi on a daily basis and surprises Mario. He could beat Baby Mario probably, but we never gave Baby Mario the chance to dribble officially.

Wario is terrible at any sport. This is because he's both bad at the games and people keep beating him up.
 
Super Mario RPG happen in the Downfall Timeline of Zelda
Mario and Luigi father Jumpman was the Mario of the Donkey Kong games
Jumpman was the Mario of Donkey Kong 1989 cartoon
Donkey Kong Jr is the normal Donkey Kong
Super Mario Land is the last game of the timeline after Mario give up on Peach love
Banjo exist in Mario Universe but retires after the second game Luigi also retires Mario retires after Super Mario Land
Wario games take place after Mario
 
Bowser's ambition in Odyssey was bigger than what he actually achieved before being defeated. Remember what SPM established about what happens when he and Peach marry? He was going to revive the Chaos Heart and this time use it himself to become ruler of all worlds.
 
I always got the impression that had to be done in a specific room to work.
 
i had a silly idea of petey not actually leaving isle defino for a while until mario scooped him up for golf or something, and he wasnt causing too much trouble for some reason, and in that time all the piantas just taught him to dance. for Some Reason. So he keeps doing it
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this makes no sense but honestly what in mario ever does
 
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