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[chillv]

This thread is refering to stuff such as...

Player handicaps
Power Cookies (Pac-Man Party)
Shiny Tanuki Suit & P-Wing (Super Mario 3D series)

Spoiler: Super Guide (New Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Donkey Kong)

Although I believe the Super Guide does not let you take secrets such as Kong letters or star coins with you, it still allows you to progress through the game as if you beat the level legitimately.

Spoiler: Different difficulty levels

Usually, games give the player no penalty for playing on a certain difficulty

Spoiler: Items

Items are usually able to used by all players but can make it a little bit easier for anyone to win.

Spoiler: Certain characters

Characters can sometimes have abilities that others don't

Basically, I am refering to any feature in a game that makes things easier for the player and still gives them the reward that players who decide to play normally would get.

I personally have no problem with this. In my opinion, people who have a problem with stuff like this want to look superior to or better than others with certain games but can't accept the fact that they can't.

Spoiler: Long line of text. Also, rant

Sometimes people call certain characters and items cheap and that's why they ban them in professional matches. However, I personally believe these are people who are mad because their complex strategy is not effective, but their opponents simple and almost effortless strategy is. As a result, they call what their opponent is using for their strategy cheap instead of excepting the fact that they are as good at the game as the person who is playing against them. Also, the games people say this about, I don't see how you can consider yourself as a professional at them anyway because I can see a novice beating them at said games without the items.

Anyway, I thought this would be an interesting topic to discuss. However, please be respectful.

 

[Crypt Raider]

Sometimes people call certain characters and items cheap and that's why they ban them in professional matches. However, I personally believe these are people who are mad because their complex strategy is not effective, but their opponents simple and almost effortless strategy is. As a result, they call what their opponent is using for their strategy cheap instead of excepting the fact that they are as good at the game as the person who is playing against them. Also, the games people say this about, I don't see how you can consider yourself as a professional at them anyway because I can see a novice beating them at said games without the items.

professional matches ban things that require a disproportionate amount of skill or effort that trivializes everything else, and when two players of roughly equal skill compete, the one using said character, item, or strategy is going to have a huge advantage and forces the other to use it too, creating a pretty stale meta

i'm going to guess you're talking most about smash bros here; you're crazy if you think two pros of equal skill are going to have a fair match when one uses meta-knight and the other uses mario, and items are bullshit because they introduce a higher dependency on random chance to a game's outcome

 

[GalacticPetey]

Sometimes people call certain characters and items cheap and that's why they ban them in professional matches. However, I personally believe these are people who are mad because their complex strategy is not effective, but their opponents simple and almost effortless strategy is. As a result, they call what their opponent is using for their strategy cheap instead of excepting the fact that they are as good at the game as the person who is playing against them. Also, the games people say this about, I don't see how you can consider yourself as a professional at them anyway because I can see a novice beating them at said games without the items.

professional matches ban things that require a disproportionate amount of skill or effort that trivializes everything else, and when two players of roughly equal skill compete, the one using said character, item, or strategy is going to have a huge advantage and forces the other to use it too, creating a pretty stale meta

i'm going to guess you're talking most about smash bros here; you're crazy if you think two pros of equal skill are going to have a fair match when one uses meta-knight and the other uses mario, and items are bullshit because they introduce a higher dependency on random chance to a game's outcome

I used to be one of the people who thought that tier lists were stupid and I didn't like that certain smash characters and stages were banned.

I now realize I was wrong. There's a reason Meta Knight is banned. There's a reason only six stages in Melee are legal in tournaments. I agree with what Groden says. Things are banned because they give people unfair advantages and allows them so win with no skill.

 

[chillv]

I understand what you guys are talking about and do agree. However, I feel that those types are games are so simple to the point that a novice can beat a so-called pro at them regardless.

Anyway, how do you feel about stuff like the Super Guide and Shiny Tanuki Suit?

 

[DragonFreak]

I feel like they put them there to make them easier for younger players. I disapprove of it. They just soften them.

 

[Icemario]

I feel like they put them there to make them easier for younger players. I disapprove of it. They just soften them.

I agree. It makes them dependent on them.

 

[chillv]

I feel like they put them there to make them easier for younger players. I disapprove of it. They just soften them.

I agree. It makes them dependent on them.

Yeah, I remember playing through most of New Super Mario Bros. Wii with the Super Guide and skipping many levels in Donkey Kong Country with the Super Guide.

However, I don't have a problem with the Powerups

 

[Daniel Dyce]

Well I guess if you want to be a pussy then yeah you can use them.

 

[Driftmaster130]

Game developers are just weakening players by adding advantages. New Super Mario Bros (DS) was like a total puzzle, leaving players to figure out everything for themselves, which is actually fun.
With New Super Mario Bros. Wii, it was a different story with the Superguide. It suddenly takes the fun out of playing the levels all the way to the end, it's pretty much like when you're taking a test you cheat by getting all the answers and not learning. Same here, except a game isn't learning, it's fun, and having a step-by-step how to do it guide pretty much takes the fun out, except for people who play games just to beat them and then wait for the next one to do the same.

In other words, I don't know if companies are intentionally diminishing gamers or they just want to sell better knowing people will find it easier to beat a game.

 

[chillv]

they just want to sell better knowing people will find it easier to beat a game.

Theres your answer right there

Although it does take the challenge away from games, it prevents people from shying away from the game because of it's difficulty. However, I feel that they should just allow more than one difficulty level so all players can have a balanced challenge. Maybe something like how Kid Icarus Uprising did with it's difficulty.

 

[Crypt Raider]

I understand what you guys are talking about and do agree. However, I feel that those types are games are so simple to the point that a novice can beat a so-called pro at them regardless.

can you provide an example of a widely-played video game or an esport that uses bans that has no important skill gaps whatsoever?

does chess not involve any skill because the mechanics are relatively simple to learn?

 

[chillv]

I understand what you guys are talking about and do agree. However, I feel that those types are games are so simple to the point that a novice can beat a so-called pro at them regardless.

can you provide an example of a widely-played video game or an esport that uses bans that has no important skill gaps whatsoever?

does chess not involve any skill because the mechanics are relatively simple to learn?

Yes. However, chess is very strategic board game that requires you have strategies to have any chance at winning in my opinion.

Examples of the games I am refering to are Smash Bros. and Mario Kart. Smash Bros is a very simple fighter that a player can simply just improvise and have a chance at winning in my opinion. Mario Kart is a very simple kart racing game and the items are so simple to use effectively that I feel that a complete novice can have a chance at winning in my opinion. However, these are just my opinions, so you are open to disagree.

 

[Zae]

well smash bros is easy to learn but hard to master.

Like all fighters smash has its own complexities of mix up, approaches, and a variety of tactics to use in a number of situations.

So while it is easy to learn, when real skilled players fight each other you can really see its not as simple as you might believe.

 

[chillv]

well smash bros is easy to learn but hard to master.

Like all fighters smash has its own complexities of mix up, approaches, and a variety of tactics to use in a number of situations.

So while it is easy to learn, when real skilled players fight each other you can really see its not as simple as you might believe.

Doesn't look so hard to master to me. However, that's just my opinion.

 

[Zae]

well smash bros is easy to learn but hard to master.

Like all fighters smash has its own complexities of mix up, approaches, and a variety of tactics to use in a number of situations.

So while it is easy to learn, when real skilled players fight each other you can really see its not as simple as you might believe.

Doesn't look so hard to master to me. However, that's just my opinion.

Well it depends, we goin' with brawl or melee?

There was more competitive value in melee, while a lot of it was removed in brawl to make it non-competitive(which is literally impossible).

I'd mention 64 but no one cares

 

[GalacticPetey]

well smash bros is easy to learn but hard to master.

Like all fighters smash has its own complexities of mix up, approaches, and a variety of tactics to use in a number of situations.

So while it is easy to learn, when real skilled players fight each other you can really see its not as simple as you might believe.

Doesn't look so hard to master to me. However, that's just my opinion.

You've obviously never watched a competitive match of SSBM. It's anything but simple. These players are pressing buttons and playing mindgames at an ungodly speed.

 

[chillv]

Stuff like this is the reason why I try to keep my opinions to my self here or on the internet in general unless I agree with everyone.

This is mostly because from my own experiences in real life and the internet, I feel that everyone around the world disagrees with me and hates my opinions

 

[Zae]

welcome to life kid

 

[chillv]

welcome to life kid

I have been introduced to life years ago.

Also, the crying and angry face is just an exaggeration. I just have a problem with the fact that people bash at me for having completely different views instead of just... you know, dealing with the fact that they can't change the way I view things no matter what.

 

[Zae]

welcome to life kid

I have been introduced to life years ago.

Also, the crying and angry face is just an exaggeration. I just have a problem with the fact that people bash at me for having completely different views instead of just... you know, dealing with it.

...you dont seem to be dealing with it yourself

but eh whatevas, thats off topic.

 

[chillv]

welcome to life kid

I have been introduced to life years ago.

Also, the crying and angry face is just an exaggeration. I just have a problem with the fact that people bash at me for having completely different views instead of just... you know, dealing with it.

...you dont seem to be dealing with it yourself

but eh whatevas, thats off topic.

Um... take another look...

Anyway, let's switch to something else

How do you guys feel about games that give different difficulty levels but give every player the same rewards with no extra rewards for playing on a higher difficulty.

](To be honest this is rather controversial topic to discuss)

 

[DragonFreak]

Stuff like this is the reason why I try to keep my opinions to my self here or on the internet in general unless I agree with everyone.

This is mostly because from my own experiences in real life and the internet, I feel that everyone around the world disagrees with me and hates my opinions

No, say your opinions. People are going to disagree with you. Who cares? Say them anyways. As long as you're not somehow trolling or something of the like.

 

[NSY]

The Super Guide/Cosmic Guide/White Tanooki Suit all do nothing but take pressure of the player. Video games are supposed to be a challenge to player and part of the challenge is figuring how to pass every level and if you cannot pass the stage, your stuck. Now thanks to this feature you can now breeze though the game.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

While you can breeze through the game, there are small disadvantages including lack of bragging rights, and that should be enough to put off many players.

 

[Shyghoul]

Really I don't see the problem with Super Guides, Cosmic Guides, etc. So what if it softens some players who decide to use them, as long as those players are having fun it really doesn't matter, and if you don't want to use them yourself because it makes the game too easy, then don't use them, they're not a required function.