Debate Your Character! (Newcomers AND Unconfirmed Veterans allowed)

SonicMario

SonicMario

Star Spirit
CURRENT CHARACTER DEBATES
Ghirahim (Started By: NSY)
Wolf (Started By: GalacticPetey)
Isaac (Started By: BMB)
Chrom (Started By: Lily)
Ridley (Started By: Smashgoom)
Pac-Man (Started By: Ernesth)
Mii (Started By: Lolcrawler) (Follow-up by: Miiself SonicMario)
Ghor (Started By: YoshiMonsta)
Gengar (Started By: SpinyMaster347)
Dillon (Started By: '3K)
Lucas (Started By: Timmy)




Hello, welcome to Debate Your Character. This is a thread I designed specifically for character debates. Which is often, as long as it doesn't devolve, a very fun part about Smash Bros. speculation. And I hope we have some great discussion on the subject of particular characters

You can debate for any unconfirmed veteran or newcomer except for the select few that I think we can all agree cannot be argued against. These characters are:

-Yoshi
-Wario
-Diddy Kong

I'd put Captain Falcon and Ness up there too. But it doesn't seem fair that if Jigglypuff is a character up for debate. Then the other unconfirmed Secret characters from the original game aren't as if Jigglypuff's appearance in the game is somehow inferior to every other character from the original game (Even if you think that's true, I wish to treat every character fairly.) The things people complain about Jigglypuff can also apply to Ness and Captain Falcon, the fact that to some she's "an irrelevent pink puffball pokemon that's not as cool as Captain Falcon or as interesting of a fighter as Ness" doesn't change that. But anyway from there, everyone else is fair game or at least have one particular thing that can be debated even if that one thing isn't something that will prevent them from getting in the game.

Newcomers are a bit easier since you just have to name them. Here's a form to fill out when you're selecting your character.

For Uncomfirmed Veterans said:
(Picture of the character (Optional))

Character Name:
Series:
Smash Bros. game(/s) the Character was Playable in:

Reasons why people think this character will/should be cut (Or in the case of characters like Mewtwo and Roy, won't return from Melee)

Rebuttals/Opposite Argument to the reasons above

Opening Statement on why you believe this veteran should return
Click to expand...

For First Party Newcomers said:
(Picture of the Character (Optional))

Character Name:
Series:
Debut Game: (The first game to feature this character)

Reasons why people don't think this character will make it in

Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above

Opening statement on why you believe this character should be playable
Click to expand...

For 3rd Party Newcomers said:
(Picture of the Character (Optional))

Character Name:
Series:
Debut Game: (If the character debuted on a system that was not Nintendo's, list both the first game ever that the character was in and the first game they were on a Nintendo system)
Character's History with Nintendo: (THIS IS IMPORTANT)

Reasons why people don't think this character will make it in

Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above

Opening statement on why you believe this character should be playable
Click to expand...

When you've made your post with this form. People who may disagree with you may start arguing with your points as soon as right after you've posted. If you're not the one who submitted the post but it's a character you support as well. You can join in and give your own thoughts about the character. Other then that, have a couple of rules.

1. Obviously no 4th party character. No Mickey Mouse, No Goku, No anything that didn't debut in a video game.

2. No characters that have never appeared on a Nintendo system. It's pretty self-explanatory. But even if it's a video game character but they've never been on a Nintendo system at all. They shouldn't be up for Smash Bros. debating.

3. Be polite to the users you're debating against. Whether you agree or disagree with a user's point of view. Don't needlessly insult them or look down upon them just because they don't agree with you.

4. Multiple character debates can happen at a time. And you can support your character while at the same time arguing against someone else's character. It might be a little more proper to use the hr lines to separate your posts between them so that there's less confusion.

5. As an addendum to the previous one. While you can debate on multiple characters, and on different sides of the opposition. Only one character per user can be put up for debate. If you want to debate in support of another character besides the one you already put up. Get a friend to post a form for the character even if that friend doesn't want to participate in debate.

6. The debate goes as long as the participants are willing to. Even if the person who originally brought up the character wants to bow out. Someone can take their place and continue arguing in their place. They also of course end if there's a clear confirmation of the character being playable or absolutely deconfirmed. And of course, all debates will come to an end when the full roster has been leaked leaving this thread useless.

7. A debate isn't a debate without opposing views. So very popular characters like Ridley or possibly K. Rool that are almost universally wanted might be difficult to make a debate for since if there's one person or even a few who wants to argue against a character like Ridley, they're surrounded by people who do and may feel overwhelmed enough to not want to continue debating if the majority is going to argue against the view.

8. If the character is a veteran that's pretty much guaranteed to come back in some form such as Ganondorf or Pokemon Trainer. The the point of the debate might not be whether if they'll be cut or not. Is if they'll stay the same as they were in Brawl. If you want to bring up characters like Ganondorf or Pokemon Trainer. You must be on the side that thinks they'll stay generally the same from Brawl (Ex: Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon still being Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle) while the other side debates it will be different pokemon (Ex: Something similar to Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle but they're replaced by Gen. 6 Starter Pokemon and their evolutions)

9. If there's a character you support that's already been put up. You can put up your own form if you feel they didn't explain your side enough, and it won't take away from your own character choice if you do so. (In other words, you can make more then one form other then the character you nominated as long as someone else nominated it)

Have fun! ^^
 
Character Name: Ghirahim
Series: The Legend of Zelda
Debut Game: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (2011)

Reasons why people don't think this character will make it in:
  • He's only appeared in one game
  • Lot's of people dislike him
  • Zelda doesn't need more than 4 reps

Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above
He may have appeared in one game but he's not the only character who would had done that, take a look at the Ice Climbers and Ness. While lot's of people dislike him, there are just us much people who Ghirahim and the while haters may be a bit pissed but it's not going to ruin their experience will it will enhance the fans experience. Also Zelda I think is big enough for 5 reps and if it is too much, then they can ditch Shiek. (who has also only appeared in one game)

Opening statement on why you believe this character should be playable
A lot of big Wii games are getting newcomers from them, Mario Galaxy got Rosalina, Wii Fit got Wii Fit Trainer and Punch Out got Little Mac. It should only be fair that Skyward Sword gets one and I think the best character other than Groose of course is Ghirahim. Ghirahim will crete an intresting moveset with all the powers he has and he will bring variety to the roster as I feel there is a current lack of villains in the roster, .

Also I suggest that if this kicks off nicely, it should be stickied.
 
Now I'm not going to be a big opposer. As I haven't played Skyward Sword, so I can't really give a fair opinion on Ghirahim. But there's a bit of an issue in your rebuttal.

NSY said:
Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above
He may have appeared in one game but he's not the only character who would had done that, take a look at the Ice Climbers and Ness. While lot's of people dislike him, there are just us much people who Ghirahim and the while haters may be a bit pissed but it's not going to ruin their experience will it will enhance the fans experience. Also Zelda I think is big enough for 5 reps and if it is too much, then they can ditch Shiek. (who has also only appeared in one game)
Click to expand...

You basically contradicted yourself.
 
I'm a big Ghirahim supported. I know he's not really important in the Zelda franchise, but they can do so much with the moveset. He can do both magic and melee moves, which I don't think any other character has.
 
I am against this character. People often say that Ness and Ice Climbers barely have any games, so why not Ghirahim? Here's the difference though. Zelda is a massive franchise, while Mother is much smaller. In addition, Zelda already has five characters. Six would be too much.
 
The only issue I have with Ghiraham is that he's not a recurring character in the Zelda series, which is one of your points, yes, and even though Ness isn't exactly a recurring character either, I don't think his inclusion justifies Ghiraham's inclusion. Ness was the main protagonist of the game he was in (from a series that only has 3 games as opposed to more than 20), and has basically become the flagship character of the Earthbound/Mother series thanks to Smash Bros., so they're both on completely different levels of notability.

Regardless, everything about Ghiraham rocks, his powers, his attitude, his moveset potential, his tounge, though Ganon, Toon Link, Zelda/Sheik and Link represent the series well enough that I doubt we'll get a villain-of-the-month character from Skyward Sword for representation. I reckon that Zelda could use an extra rep, but I'm on the fence as to whether that rep should be Ghiraham or not.

Also with Zelda and Link retaining their TP looks it makes me think even less that he'll be playable.

Brawl overloaded on Twilight Princess trophies because it was the most recent Zelda game at the time, and with Skyloft and the Bottled Fairy item both alluding to SS I guess the most I can expect from Ghiraham is a trophy or maybe AT, but I guess it'd be fine if he was playable.

so SM we can only have one character debate going at a time, right?
 
well she has appeared in more games then Ghirahim though, even though most of those are just spin-offs.

Rosalina may also be pretty popular too, whether that means anything or not though is beyond me.

Honestly i dont like Ghirahims design but i dont know much else besides him aside from some boss battle where he can catch your sword between his fingers.
 
I don't really have anyone I want to nominate right now, although you'll likely see me participate if this thread continues to be popular. I don't think Ghirahim is likely at all, so let's go.

Unlike Ness or Ice Climbers, Ghirahim isn't the star of his game. He is yet another one-time Zelda character who is unlikely to ever have another major appearance again, and whose popularity will most likely decrease with time. Most other Zelda one-shots, such as Skull Kid (ok there are more than one but we all know the one from MM is the only one that was requested), Midna, and Zant, have failed to reach playable status, and I think Ghirahim will have the same fate. Sure, Sheik did make it in, but she's part of one of the series' main characters. No one-shot Zelda characters that are actually their own character have become playable. Replacing Sheik with Ghirahim like NSY suggested won't happen, considering that Sheik represents one of the most popular games ever.

Ghirahim also has quite a bit of competition for a Zelda slot, most notably Tingle and Toon Zelda. Tingle, while he does have quite the hatebase in America, is possibly the character not already playable in Smash that appears in the Zelda series the most. Toon Zelda/Tetra is probably the most popular choice for a new Zelda spot. She's also a part of the forbidden seven; she's been considered for Smash before.

Skyward Sword seems to be getting quite a bit of attention in Smash; so did Twilight Princess in Brawl, but we didn't get a playable character from TP, so it may not really mean much. Then again, the Toon games got quite a bit of attention too and we got Toon Link. Link and Zelda themselves clearly aren't based on Skyward Sword, so that DOES hurt him.

Additionally, while Zelda is a major series, it's not quite on the level of Pokemon or Mario. It also already has all of its main characters (Link, Zelda, and Ganon), as well as someone to represent the Toon games. I'm not sure that they would want to add a fifth right now.

He does have a few things going for him. He is still fairly popular and the Skyward Sword content MIGHT help him out, but I don't think it's going to be enough to earn him a spot.

Olaf said:
Besides, if Rosalina can get in, I'm pretty sure Ghirahim is equally qualified.
Click to expand...

Unlike Ghirahim, Rosalina has had several appearances since her debut; she appeard in the sequel, has appeared in spin-offs, and even became a playable character in Super Mario 3D World. She's become a rather important character in the Mario series, so I don't think her inclusion really helps Ghirahim all that much.
 
I don't see Ghirahim getting in unless Demise does, and I don't see that happening unless Ganondorf is replaced, or Demise is an alternate form.
 
For Demise to be a stage hazard or an assist trophy, Ghirahim would also have to have one of those statuses, since the two are...linked with one another, in a sense.
 
I don't think Demise or Ghirahim will be showing up as stage hazards. The Skyward Sword stage doesn't look like it will have hazards (good thing too, I want to actually be able to enjoy the stage). Skull Kid is also already an assist trophy.

The two will probably be regular trophies.
 
One thing I see definitely going against Ghirahim is game sales.

We have Wii Fit Trainer due to the whole success of Wii Fit.

Villager is from Animal Crossing, which is another very successful Nitendo series.

Rosalina has been introduced for being from the best selling Wii Mario game/duo.

Skyward Sword though did not sell that good. It did recieve high critical ratings and such, but overall the fanbase is quite split, and the sales were not as good as they were with Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time.

Plus, with them keeping the TP-style Link and Zelda, the inclusion of Ghirahim would not fit well with the crossover. I mean, yes, we have Toon Link, but there's a reason he's called "Toon". They have kept the same style Link, Zelda/Sheik, and Ganondorf.

If anything, there might be an inclusion from TP. I mean, Rosalina has became a newcomer in a series that started right before Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I understand that a lot of TP stuff was included in Brawl, including a stage. But it was pretty close to the SSBB making, and it would have been released a year after TP had it not been for Sonic's Inclusion, so many we'll even see a character from that game. I don't even know if we are going to get another rep.

I will admit that out of the all the characters in Skyward Sword to be playable, Ghirahim would be the more likely choice. Others I could see would be Ghirahim and Impa and Groose and Fi. A potential - but not likely - person from TP would be Midna (which I would love). It'll be nice to see what they have in store for another Zelda stage for the Wii U, since I am 100% positive there'll be at least one more Zelda stage. For all we know it could be the place where you fight The Imprisoned, or it could just be a WWHD fight (though honestly, I think The Pirate Ship will be a retro stage that would represent Toon Link's stage). There could be where Ghirahim could be (if we are at the past location after you fight off the horde of monsters to get to him).

My point is, Ghirahim as a character is slim to none imo. I deifinitely see him as a stage hazard or an assist trophy, but as a character? Maybe 5% chance.
 
5% is about where I'd put him too. He's got several things against him in my eyes, but the SS content and some popularity is enough to make him a slight possibility.
 
GBAToad said:
so SM we can only have one character debate going at a time, right?
Click to expand...

No we can have more then one at a time. If it gets to be too much though. I could put a character limit. But I feel only one at a time just narrows the scope too much. Not everyone wants to debate about particular characters. (Like since this first debate if Ghirahim, not everyone here might be Zelda fans so they might not be interested in this one) So if they want to bring in another character for discussion while still discussing the other. It's allowed.

Though I highly suggest if it's done that the hr lines be used to seperate them. So that it's not too confusing.



Like here could be the post where you're supporting your character



And here could be where you're posting on a character you're arguing against
 
If you don't mind, I think I'll start up another debate. This time on whether or not a veteran will return.

Character Name: Wolf
Series: Star Fox
Smash Bros. game the Character was Playable in: Brawl

Reasons why people think this character will/should be cut: Similar to Fox and Falco. People think he's a clone (even though he's not even close).

Rebuttals/Opposite Argument to the reasons above: Wolf is not a clone at all. Plus he is a good villain to represent Star Fox, which I feel deserves three reps.

Opening Statement on why you believe this veteran should return: A lot of people didn't like that Wolf was in Brawl. People thought he was a clone. However, Wolf is not a clone at all. People only look at the special moves. Wolf's jabs, tilts, smashes, grabs, and aerials are all unique. Even then, Wolf's special moves have different properties than Fox's and Falco's. In addition, Wolf is a good representative for Star Fox and also allows for there to be another villain in Smash.
 
3DIsaac.jpg


Character Name: Isaac
Series: Golden Sun
Debut Game: Golden Sun

Reasons why people don't think this character will make it in - He hasn't really had a new game in awhile; not that relevant anymore we don't need another swordsman.

Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above - He has appeared in Brawl; he's a retro character, which they brought back Little Mac; he has other powers/moves he can have besides his sword.

Opening statement on why you believe this character should be playable - Isaac is a great representation for the Golden Sun series, being the main protagonist. No one has yet made an appearance for the series except for him, being an Assist Trophy. Little Mac was an assist trophy in the previous SSB game, and has now became a playable character, which could easily be the case for Isaac as well. If Sakurai plans to keep up with having more series represented, then Isaac is a perfect example of where to go next!
 
issac would be a more enjoyable sword user though as he has various psyenergy attacks among djinn summons as well.

So in short it would be a mix of magic and sword play.
 
I'd support Isaac's inclusion in the game.
 
Character(s): The Koopalings/Bowser Jr.

Reasons Why I Think They'll Make It: To add a better roster with as many characters and newcomers as possible. And newer challenges.

Rebuttal: They're are alot of koopalings so theres a chance they wont be able to incorperate them all.

Why You Believe this character Should be playable: They could make Bowser Jr. a character you unlock by completing a certain challenge with Bowser. Then using Bowser and Bowser Jr. to complete mpre challenges you unlock the Koopalings. Also they all seem to have they're moveset practically made out for them just look at New Super Mario Bros Wii. It'll be a larger expansion of the Roster allowing people more character choices overall as well.
 
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