Debate Your Character! (Newcomers AND Unconfirmed Veterans allowed)

[Baby Mario Bloops]

Ernesth, I can give so many reasons why that won't happen, but I'll limit it.

1 - They are not going to add 8 characters in from the same series, even if it is the Mario series. They already have a ton, and the last thing they need is to add a buttload more. They wouldn't have 13 newcomers with 9 of them being from the same series.

2 - Even if one or two of them get in, it still is too many for the ratios between the other series. Bowser Jr. is the most likely, but Rosalina's addition basically made it to where the odds of another character from the series would be slim to none.

3 - There are better representatives for the Mario series. Bowser Jr. is a upper one, but we also have Waluigi and Toad who have appeared in the Mario series before, who would probably be more likely than any of the 8 you've mentioned.

4 - "With as many characters and newcomers as possible" does not make a better roster. It makes it more of a fangame. People may complain about Smash's character selections, but if the fans made the decisions, well...just take a look at twitch plays Pokemon, or check out the miiverse posts asking for powerpuff girls and goku as newcomers. Asking for these characters with that reasoning does not put it above some of those requests on miiverse.

 

[Smashley]

The Koopalings? Yeah, that's not going to happen.

Their main issue with them is that you can't really have one without having them all. Therefore they'd have to either:

-Somehow group all seven in one spot. I don't see how that's even possible.
-Give each one an individual spot. This isn't much better. They're not going to give seven bosses from one series each a spot of their own. Mario Kart's more understandable, since it's a Mario game, but in a game about the entirety of Nintendo, twelve Mario characters is absolute overkill.

Additionally they're not really wanted (I have seen Ludwig get a few mentions, but not many, and I don't think they'd only add one Koopaling), and the Mario series already got a newcomer. There's not likely any room left for a sixth, let alone seven more. Also they're not going to add random characters just for the sake of adding them, they don't have time to add more than like say ten new characters, maybe fifteen at the very most (including what we've already seen).

Overall the Koopalings have absolutely no chance whatsoever of being playable in Smash.

I may or may not do Isaac tomorrow.

 

[ernesth100]

Character: Slime(Rocket, to be specific)
Series: Dragon Quest(Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime)

Reasons Why I think they might make it: Ummm. I just want to see a slime in here especially after remembering playing this game.

Rebuttal: Character is not really known that well at all...or much less remembered despite having his own game.

Why You think the character should be playable: Because he's cool in Rocket Slime(Rocket: http://dragonquest.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket ). His moves could be the Elasto Blast and picking up and throwing enemies. The Final Smash could be him summoning his tank!

It would be awsome!

 

[GBA]

ernesth, you can only nominate one character for debate at a time.

OK, I don't mind the Koopalings in the Mario series, but there's no way they'd work as characters in Smash Bros. Like Smasher said, it'd be unusual to single out one as playable, ridiculous to fit all seven of them into one slot and a total waste to make each a separate character, since they'd all use really similar (if not the same) attacks. Bowser Jr. is a different case, only because he's slightly more characterized thanks to games like Sunshine. But despite that, Nintendo practically considers him part of the Koopalings now, so that really hurts his chances.

Anyway, Rosalina is a much better Mario rep, and like Smasher and BMB, I really doubt we'll have more than five Mario characters.

 

[ernesth100]

Okay so maybe no koopalings but Bowser Jr likely.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I love how my debate gets completely ignored.

Anyway, don't expect Bowser Jr. or the Koopalings. I could list my reasons as to why this is horrible idea, but everyone already said it.

 

[Lily x]

I suppose I will do one

Character Name: Chrom
Series: Fire Emblem
Debut Game: Fire Emblem: Awakening

Reasons why people don't think this character will make it in
Awakening was too recent, there are other main characters in awakening which could have more interesting movesets (Robin and Lucina), possibility of bringing back Ike instead of adding Chrom

Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above
Awakening wasn't really too recent and Chrom is the main lord and it fits the pattern of having Marth+Newest Lord as SSB reps. Also, there is potential with his moveset as they can decide to not restrict him to just sword based moves (Great lord lance using) and it is very possible that FE could have three reps for the game.

Opening statement on why you believe this character should be playable
It would fit the pattern of fire emblem reps in previous ssb games, awakening is a very populat game so a character from the game should get included and Chrom is the most likley rep as Robin could be quite difficult to fit in and Lucina, although being a very popular character, wasn't the main lord and is a spoiler character, to an extent. Also, due to the fact he can use Lances as a great lord and the 'pair up' system in awakening could mean he could have an interesting moveset, despite mainly being a swordsman (I had an idea of Lucina/masked marth being included into his final smash)

 

[GBA]

Just addressing the ones I missed:

GP at this rate I doubt Wolf will be dropped. I completely agree that he's unique with his smash attacks and such. I just hope some of his special moves are changed *cough*Landmaster*cough*

Isaac would be the choice rep for his series, and I'd really like a sword/magic user like him. Mac made the jump from assist trophy to playable, but then again he had a massive revival with Punch-Out!! Wii. iirc Isaac isn't playable in the latest GS game, his son is. Still, I'd love it if he were revealed with a GBA VC rerelease of Golden Sun (or just the rerelease would do really).

I'm indifferent on Chrom. So long as he's vastly different to Marth and Ike I wouldn't mind.


I might write one of these myself when I can.

 

[GalacticPetey]

People often say that they don't want another swordsman in Smash. Well, all the swordsman play vastly differently.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

yeah, but clearly we need weapons other than swords and fists in smash. dedede was a good start, and this smash they should finally introduce a SPEAR USER

...

too bad there aren't any famous ones except ephraim from fe8

 

[ernesth100]

Can I do Rocket now?

 

[SonicMario]

yeah, but clearly we need weapons other than swords and fists in smash. dedede was a good start, and this smash they should finally introduce a SPEAR USER

...

too bad there aren't any famous ones except ephraim from fe8

A spear using character are why some are clamoring for Bandanna Dee from the Kirby series. But considering I believe most believe the Kirby series is set with Kirby, Dedede, and Meta Knight. Probably won't happen.

Also Ernesth, you can only pick one character for discussion. So either you pick the Koopalings, Bowser Jr, Slime, or drop them all and go for whatever you mean by Rocket.

 

[Smashley]

yeah, but clearly we need weapons other than swords and fists in smash. dedede was a good start, and this smash they should finally introduce a SPEAR USER

...

too bad there aren't any famous ones except ephraim from fe8

Bandana Dee's pretty popular

I don't think he's very likely, though.

i don't like ninjas

Okay so maybe no koopalings but Bowser Jr likely.

Bowser Jr. is actually plausible, yeah.

I don't see it happening anymore though, simply because I doubt there's room for another new Mario character. That said if there is I think it would be him as he's one of the only remaining characters that has major roles in the platformers. (and Toad has been pretty much shot down at this point).

 

[ernesth100]

So yea thas true but...can I do Rocket now? I really want Rocket.

 

[Smashgoom202]

I feel like I'm about to send up a flare by doing this, and I know there are people better equipped at debating this kind of thing then I am (and not just because I usually steer clear of debates), but I feel a topic like this wouldn't be complete without this guy right here:

Character Name: Ridley
Series: Metroid
Debut Game: Metroid (Nintendo Entertainment System, August 6, 1986)

Reasons why people don't think this character will make it in Ho boy, where do I start?

• He's too big.
• He's too awkward.
• He's not that important.
• There are better Metroid choices.
• There are better character choices in general.
• It's so obvious why he can't make it in that I'm not even going to give a reason and just call you delusional for saying he should be in

Rebuttals/Opposite argument to the reasons above

Well, first off, the whole "too big" argument has been so prevalent that it's turned into a meme by this point. Unfortunately, much like the Chuck Norris meme fooled people into thinking he's actually that awesome, people were fooled into actually thinking Ridley is too big. Here's the thing, though, it's been established numerous times, INCLUDING Super Smash Bros. series creator, Masahiro Sakuria, just this week, that size is an irrelevant issue when it comes to these games. If a character has the potential for an interesting moveset, or is popular enough, they'll get in. Trying to argue based on size is also a moot point when the characters in this series aren't even to scale. Going by the official heights of characters such as Pikachu, Kirby, Little Mac, and ESPECIALLY Olimar, none of the characters heights in this game are accurate in the slightest, and are instead modeled in such a way in which they can be playable. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to say Ridley can be scaled down to be playable, especially considering that in the opening cutscene of Super Smash Bros. Melee, Ridley was seen and is pretty much the same heigh as Samus. Behold!

The "too awkward" argument is going to be harder for me, because I'm not all that good at thinking up movesets. However, there have been a number of dedicated fans who have made their own mock versions of Ridley, proving that it IS possible to make a coherent playable Ridley. I kind of wish I had some footage or screenshots of this, but I don't have any immediately on-hand. Also keep in mind that he doesn't necessarily have to stand up on two feet and can move on all fours like he did in the Prime games and Other M.

The last few "arguments" are ones I've genuinely seen from the "Anti-Ridley brigade" and ones I feel shouldn't even be worth addressing, because it shows a lot of ignorance on the side of those people, but because of the nature of this topic, I'll do so here.

"He's not important", in what sense? He's not an important Nintendo character? Well, honestly, that's kind of hard to quantify, seeing as the Metroid series has been one of those "major-minor" Nintendo franchises, not as big as Mario, Pokemon, or The Legend of Zelda, but still very relevant... at least in the West. See, while the Metroid Prime series has been massively popular in the West, it wasn't all that hot in Japan, due to the Japanese not being big on first-person shooters. They attempted to remedy that with Metroid: Other M, but that ended up pissing off Western players, and now the series is in sort of a limbo... Despite that, though, I think the fact that they're still making Metroid games, as opposed to series like Star Fox which has only a handful of titles released one seven five years or so, or series' like Kid Icarus and Punch-Out!! which were mostly retro franchises that recently got rebooted, shows that it's still relevant and a major contender in Nintendo's arsenal.

As for not being important in the Metroid series itself, or saying there better Metroid characters to choose from... okay, this one kind of shows they don't know a thing about the Metroid franchise. Ridley is the most frequent antagonist in the series, and has made the most appearances outside of Samus Aran herself. In fact, not only that, Ridley is directly tied to Samus's character, having been the leader of the group of Space Pirates that destroyed her home village and killer her birth parents. He's basically to her what Bowser is to Mario or Ganondorf is to the various Links of The Legend of Zelda series; he's her arch-enemy, and probably THE most important character in the series besides Samus and perhaps Mother Brain. As for other potential Metroid characters, there really isn't all that much to choose from. One could say that Dark Samus, or any of the other Bounty Hunters or characters from the Prime series would be good choices, but remember, the Metroid Prime series isn't that popular in Japan, so it's likely they won't be that prevalent on Sakurai's mind when making the choices for the roster. One could also say that Adam Malkovich or Anthony Higgs could make it in, and while that game appears to be more popular in Japan then the West, and while they're more relevant being in a more recent game, they don't have that much to offer as far as movesets are concerned. We don't even see Ada Malkovich fight that much in the games, not to mention what we DO see is pretty much standard issue from the Galactic Federation and not really that impressive compared to what Samus can do. And again, they're not as prevalent as Ridley is when it comes to the Metroid series.

The last two "arguments" are the most common ones I've seen, aside from "Ridley's too big", and really, I don't have much to say about that. It's totally cool if you want to see other characters in the game over Ridley, but I don't think that means Ridley has any less of a shot to get in, just because you, specifically, don't want him. And the last one really pisses me off, ESPECIALLY because it's so common. I mean, with all the arguments I've seen for how Ridley can be playable, this smug dismissiveness for the very IDEA that Ridley can be playable is just the biggest load of bullcrap I've ever seen regarding the Super Smash Bros. series! ESPECIALLY when that same person keeps saying they want Shadow the Hedgehog, Goku, and whoever playable in the game! Ugh...

Opening statement on why you believe this character should be playable

Well, this is kind of weird, considering I feel like I've already given part of my reasons why he should be playable in my rebuttals, but regardless...

Ridley is one of the primary antagonists of the Metroid series. He's usually not the main antagonist, it's usually Mother Brain or some other bigger entity, but he's usually there, ready to fight, regardless of how many times he's been destroyed by Samus. As such, he always seemed like a prime candidate for being a playable character in the Super Smash Bros. series, the same way with King Dedede before he was confirmed in both Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS (who people, similarly, used to argue he'd be more fitting as a boss then a playable character). And even though I said that the Metroid series is in a weird kind of limbo at the moment, it's still a relatively major franchise Nintendo has, so I'm disappointed to see the lack of representation the series has gotten over the years. Really, in my mind, Ridley has been long overdue for making a playable appearance.

Also, I just thought Ridley looked cool, a kind of pterodactyl-like dragon alien. It's also been said that despite his monstrous appearance, he's actually quite intelligent, making some speaking appearances in certain manga and comics based on the Metroid games... of course, some people seemed to have missed that in certain Metroid games and in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, where he really does behave like a mindless monster, but whatever. As for how he'd play, like I said, I'm terrible at creating movesets, but I've seen this one awesome suggestion that says that he can be like an inverse of Little Mac: bad on the ground, but an absolute BEAST in the air! I could totally see that working!

Ever since Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS was announced, Ridley was and continues to be my number one choice for newcomers, here's hoping he finally makes it!

 

[Dr. Javelin]

what's your response to the fact that ridley was in brawl, and was way bigger than an average brawler

if he was shrunk down for ssb4 he would look puny compared to brawl

 

[Zae]

what's your response to the fact that ridley was in brawl, and was way bigger than an average brawler

if he was shrunk down for ssb4 he would look puny compared to brawl

considering ridley has gone various sizes before it wouldnt surprise me.

in the original metroid he was like the size of samus, while in super metroid he was amazingly bigger, in fusion there was two ridley's.

one was incased in ice and was the size of super metroid ridley, later he got possessed by the virus and was exceptionally bigger.

all the prime ridley's seem to be the same size more or less.

You see in most games ridley changes sizes, so actually that would be very plausible.

 

[ernesth100]

Character: Slime(Rocket, to be specific)
Series: Dragon Quest(Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime)

Reasons Why I think they might make it: Ummm. I just want to see a slime in here especially after remembering playing this game.

Rebuttal: Character is not really known that well at all...or much less remembered despite having his own game.

Why You think the character should be playable: Because he's cool in Rocket Slime(Rocket: http://dragonquest.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket ). His moves could be the Elasto Blast and picking up and throwing enemies. The Final Smash could be him summoning his tank!

It would be awsome!

But seriously what do you think of this.

 

[Mario4Ever]

one was incased in ice and was the size of super metroid ridley, later he got possessed by the virus and was exceptionally bigger.

nitpicky shit, but Ridley's body disintegrated after the X took his form. He wasn't possessed.

Spoiler

technically a clone, if we consider that part of Other M canon, he was dead after the Queen Metroid attacked him

 

[SonicMario]

But seriously what do you think of this.

Slime/Rocket is owned by Squaresoft. I don't think he's the prime candidate if Square gets a rep in Smash Bros. I would think that'd go to a Final Fantasy rep, or heck if Dragon Quest is eligible then one of the Main characters of that Series would probably get in before the Slime. Slime's only crossover appearances was in Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street, I doubt he gets in Smash Bros. the same exact way though

 

[ernesth100]

one was incased in ice and was the size of super metroid ridley, later he got possessed by the virus and was exceptionally bigger.

nitpicky *bleep*, but Ridley's body disintegrated after the X took his form. He wasn't possessed.

Spoiler

technically a clone, if we consider that part of Other M canon, he was dead after the Queen Metroid attacked him

Is Mecha Ridley a clone or did samus and pikachu beat Ridley that bad that he had to get body part replacements?

 

[Zae]

@ernesth100:

personally i doubt the slime would ever be playable due to the fact that he's only a protagonist of not one of the more popular games.

Honestly the protags of dq4,5, or 8 would have better chances as those are the most popular ones.

nitpicky shit, but Ridley's body disintegrated after the X took his form. He wasn't possessed.
*spoiler*

oh okay, havent played fusion in awhile so i wasnt entirely sure.

 

[ernesth100]

But seriously what do you think of this.

Slime/Rocket is owned by Squaresoft. I don't think he's the prime candidate if Square gets a rep in Smash Bros. I would think that'd go to a Final Fantasy rep, or heck if Dragon Quest is eligible then one of the Main characters of that Series would probably get in before the Slime. Slime's only crossover appearances was in Mario Sports Mix and Fortune Street, I doubt he gets in Smash Bros. the same exact way though

Yea, but it sure would be cool.

 

[Smashgoom202]

what's your response to the fact that ridley was in brawl, and was way bigger than an average brawler

if he was shrunk down for ssb4 he would look puny compared to brawl

Hm...Well, part of me thinks that's the fault of Masahiro Sakurai for making him a boss in the first place, but regardless, you can lean on the excuse that there was a Giant Donkey Kong in the original Super Smash Bros. and your fight a larger then average Bowser at the end of Super Smash Bros. Melee's Adventure Mode (not Giga Bowser, but right before Giga Bowser, if you unlock that particular fight). You could say Ridley had a Super Mushroom for his appearance in Brawl, and he's just as capable of being powerful when shrunken down to "normal" size.

Plus there's what Fighter Zae said about him having various sizes in the games he's from.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

You could say Ridley had a Super Mushroom for his appearance in Brawl, and he's just as capable of being powerful when shrunken down to "normal" size.

are you serious

i guess the various sizes thing has some merit, but in the most recent games he's stayed consistently bigger than bowser or donkey kong or any other large character. much, much bigger. in every appearance he's been able to grab samus in one hand, and samus isn't exactly the shortest character