Smash Bros. Character/Roster Merit

[SonicMario]

Hello everyone, I'm making this thread to talk about character merit in regards to Smash Bros. So you have a good idea how I approach the characters in Smash. Unlike most multiplayer games, characters are hugely important because they're supposed to have some sort of meaning for Nintendo or at the very least the Smash Bros. franchise itself for multiple reasons. This isn't Mario Kart where they could literally add Baby Metal Koopalina (And that's no typo, I mean Rosalina in the form of a Koopaling) and I wouldn't give a rat's ass as long as Luigi and most of the other assured characters that the roster of Mario Kart 64 provided. In Smash Bros., bad inclusions would really stick out because pretty much most of the inclusions have excellent merit.

SUPER SMASH BROS. 64

I'd like to go through this by starting with the first game and then talking about what we know so far about Smash 4's roster and what characters have the merit to come back to.

I don't think anybody can question that at least most of the Original 12 all have their merits. For the sake to keeping this short. I'm not going to go over Mario, DK, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, and Luigi because at the time of SSB64 even then it was easy to see why they were included because they were well established franchises (Or sub ones in the case of Donkey Kong and Yoshi). I do want to cover however the two characters of the Original 12 still unconfirmed for Smash 4. But because it seems to be a tradition, not many really doubt their return. Let's start with the little boy with the psychic powers that most of us playing SSB64 never knew who he was.

Bold = Something that gives the character Merit
Underline = Something that gives the character less Merit

NESS

Ness is a very interesting and really well-loved inclusion looking back. Earthbound probably would have been remained in obscurity had Ness not been included. So any fans of the Earthbound/MOTHER franchise have a lot to thank the Smash Bros. series for.

At the same time though, Ness has somehow gotten a magic to him that has even attracted those who have not played more then five minutes of an Earthbound game (Me being one of them). The only time I played Earthbound on a ROM I had and had no idea what to do at the beginning as a kid. And never really went back to trying to go through it more. Yet, when I thought he was cut for Brawl (Remember "Up Until Now" ?) I felt like a hole had been cut right out of my heart. And to this day, I don't understand completely why I did. But it's as if cutting anyone from the Original 12 would be the absolute hardest character cuts to take. On nearly the same level if they ever took out Sonic. Something about possibly never seeing Ness' smiling face on the character select screen and instead we had Lucas, which while I'm not saying he's bad. But having just Lucas would not have felt the same at all. To my great relief there would be a leak that showed that Ness indeed was returning. While yes I do know that Lucas was planned to replace Ness back in Melee, and likely would have lessened the impact because then there would be a precedent for characters not returning in the Smash Bros. series had that happened. Anyway, It excited me that he was back, and he even became one of my 4 mains in Brawl/Project M and I think I've gotten pretty good with him too. At this point, cutting Ness would feel like Nintendo committed a Smash Bros. edition of the Ten Commandments that says "Thou shall not cut any of the Original 12 under any circumstances" Which speaking of which, let's get into the one character that provides actually a quite a bit of controversy because some don't believe she deserves the permanent and the holy "Thou shall not cut him/her" status that each of the Original 12 has received

JIGGLYPUFF

Ah, Jigglypuff. She's the one character that probably most would say whether they liked her or not. That if there's anyone that had to be cut from the Original 12. She'd be the one to go. Some even still clamor for the day that she is cut but has been continually denied the satisfaction twice thus far and a likely third time coming up. Personally, I'd feel it'd be a terrible mistake to cut Jigglypuff at this point. Could just be more of that talk that makes me sad when a character I don't even play their games for yet makes me sad when there is the possibility that they'll not be back talking. But whether we like it or not, Jigglypuff has a place in Smash. And while for 2 of the 3 official Smash Bros. games she was far from the best character. Taking her out now would still be pissing off players who have dedicated themselves to maining the little Pink Puffball Pokemon since the first game. And it says something when the Pokemon Franchise have probably had the most radical cuts out of any franchise in the Series (Mewtwo from between Melee and Brawl, the Pokemon Trainer most likely between Brawl and Smash 4) yet Jigglypuff still stands strong.

Again, it just feels like there's some strange force protecting the place that the Original 12 have. Some people who don't want Jigglypuff or even Ness to come back try to say that the concept of an Original 12 is purely made as a fan construct and if Nintendo truly wanted to they could say no to Jigglypuff or Ness at anytime. But the thing is, there's an easy answer to that: But they haven't. Until it does, the Original 12 being permanent Mainstays is not such a farfetched idea. You can come up with many excuses. Like Jigglypuff being one of the last few characters made in Brawl shown by meaning that the development team care less about Jigglypuff. But the thing is 1. Jiggs made it in over Mewtwo that's for sure 2. Toon Link was also one of the last remaining characters finished yet he's already been confirmed for Smash 4. Meaning character priority is completely different between Brawl and Smash 4.

All-in-all, Smash 64's roster is not something you want to mess with. Not one of the Original 12 being cut would go over well with everybody. We already have 10 of the 12 confirmed. We're either going get further proof of the divine right the Original 12 have by the end of this, or massive rioting over just one of the two characters should they not make it in. If both Jigglypuff and Ness were to not return… let's just say the Smash Bros. series would have it's own version of the Mass Effect 3 ending backlash…

SUPER SMASH BROS. MELEE

Alright time to go into Melee. In other words, probably the game with the worst roster in quite a bit of ways including Merit. Yeah. Peach, Zelda/Shiek, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Falco, Marth, and Mr. Game and Watch all have excellent merit to them. But like I said before, just one questionable inclusion can raise question marks in Smash Bros. and there were at least a few. As with SSB64, I'm not going to cover already confirmed Melee veterans. I'm going to go down the list starting with what of the characters currently unconfirmed that were introduced in Melee from who has the most merit, to the least in my opinion.

MR. GAME AND WATCH

Mr. Game and Watch is really the one character of the unconfirmed that really does subtly have the best merit out a lot of them. He may have been an out of nowhere choice to many. But this guy is older then Mario. He has his own moveset. And him being just a 2D model with blips for sounds, he's an easy to implement character. Plus as the Pac-Man trailer showed. You could have four classic Pre-NES era born characters fight with Game & Watch, Pac-Man, Mario, and Donkey Kong.

MEWTWO

Funny how the first character in Smash with a Unique moveset to be cut is in the Top 2 of characters with the most merit. Maybe that just goes to show just how Melee's roster kinda messed up things regarding merit-able characters. But yeah, Mewtwo is an immensely popular Pokemon. There are many people who did not like how Mewtwo wasn't included in Brawl and is probably the most wanted returning veteran just cause of how many miss him. Strangely enough, I would of gone to a funeral for Ness had he not made it. Yet I didn't really bat an eye too much for Mewtwo. I would say maybe Sonic helped with that but even with Sonic included I would have been sad had Ness not been included. And unlike the Earthbound franchise, I was a huge Pokemon fan at one point. Anyway, Mewtwo did have a unique moveset that was cut. And that was a darn shame. Even if competitively he didn't really do too well. But the fact he was cut in the first place does make his return rather questionable, especially after Greninja's reveal. That said there could be room for 6 Pokemon or even 7 where Mewtwo and Jigglypuff could both get in. If there is any competition between the two for a spot. Well let's just say we saw how that turned out in Brawl's development. No matter how "cooler" Mewtwo is in comparison to Jigglypuff in some people's opinions. But nonetheless there's still room for both. Nintendo doesn't have to honor the Grass types by bringing something like Sceptile into the game. As both SSB64 and Melee had absolutely no Fire, Grass, or Water types whatsoever. It was Electric, and Normal in SSB64. And Electric, Normal, and Psychic in Melee. It would be a shame to completely drop the whole idea since it does represent the three traditional starter types in all Pokemon games. But it's a sacrifice that had to be made with the loss of the Transformation gimmick for characters.

FALCO

Falco is a character that will always receive the love from the tourney heavy guys. And there would be riots among them if Falco were to not return. Falco does have seniority on his side. His only competition really could be Wolf should they shrink Star Fox's representation. However as popular as he is with Star Fox fans and Competitive Smash players. It still doesn't hide the fact that he started out barely different from Fox. He would get fixed in Brawl at least somewhat. But how he was in Melee keeps him just out of the Top 3 of our unconfirmed Melee characters in terms of Merit

ICE CLIMBERS

Ice Climbers is an interesting inclusion because while they as fighters were unique with the player controls one while a bot is programmed to attack with your character or try to get back to where you are if you separate. However, unlike Retro reps that represent something in Nintendo's History like Mr. Game and Watch and ROB do or are brought back to reboot the franchise eventually like in the case with Kid Icarus. Ice Climbers come from a game that isn't even really that amazing and probably a big case of "They're included only because Sakurai seems to like them". However, being unique as well as a character that while it has been said they've been having troubles programming on the 3DS version. I think that more so confirms them rather then make them likely cuts. Because that means the team has been trying to include them, and with Rosalina and Luma seeming just fine. I think we'll see Ice Climbers eventually even if we have to wait until the full roster reveal.

GANONDORF

Now it might be odd to have Ganondorf this low The thing is, it's true that he's an important inclusion being that him and all his forms are the Main Villain of the Zelda Franchise. However what completely ruins this from being excellent merit, is for some reason Sakurai or someone had the idea that he should just be a slower, and faster Captain Falcon. And has been in both Melee and Brawl. There's absolutely no doubt that he'll return in some form. But people still do complain about how a main villain of a big franchise doesn't even have his own Moveset. From here on out the other inclusions however I don't really look upon as all that favorable.

YOUNG LINK

Young Link is just rather odd. I know Sakurai has said he considers the Kid Link to be the true link. And how there was the whole time travel gimmick in Ocarina of Time and Link was a kid for all of Majora's Mask. He's not as bad as the other inclusion of an alternate version of an already existing character which I'll get to soon. And Toon Link basically keeps what Young Link was in spirit while also representing a whole nother section of the Zelda timeline. And while it's cool to have the option since it seems like the younger link seem to be better fighters then the Adult Link in either Melee and Brawl. His inclusion still is confusing. But at least his inclusion represented something that was already well-known unlike…

ROY

While Smash Bros. kinda always has been a bit of a promotional tool in not just characters representing franchises, but also in the trophies. It's worse if the inclusion is pretty much blatant advertising for a game that had not even come out yet. And as what Fire Emblem was back then it was Japan Only. So the inclusion kinda feels useless even more in Western Markets. And just leave people scratching their heads. I can't deny there was a cool factor to him with him having a fire sword and I get that he gained a cult following. That even Project M decided to bring him back along with Mewtwo starting with Project M 3.0. But the way he was included just rubs me the wrong way. There's actually a character in Smash 4 that I'm having some of the same feelings for even if it's not quite as bad as with Roy. But I'll get to that when I get to that.

PICHU

Oh Pichu, so many question why you were added. Some people may be even surprised that I don't have Pichu at the very bottm. I'll get to that, but for now. It just seems rather insulting that the 2nd Generation of Pokemon is represented by what is just a weaker, se lf-destructing Pikachu. And to add salt in the wound, in the forbidden 7. Pichu is nowhere to be found despite Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were all on there. Pichu was not even considered to return in Brawl whatsoever. Pichu is actually a bit of a controversial subject if you go to the Project M forums on Smashboards. Some people do want to see what the developers can do with Pichu to make him not such a joke character. But others don't want them to spend a single second trying to bring Pichu back. Pichu is often regarded to many as the one inclusion where many ask just what were Nintendo, Sakurai, or Gamefreak thinking in regards to the inclusion. Maybe it's even the popular opinion that Pichu is the absolute worst inclusion of the series. However, I do think there is one worse. And it's in the same game.

DOCTOR MARIO

No. No. No. NO. This is not how you pad a roster. Young Link may have also been another version of an already existing character. But at least he still represented something that had merit with Majora's Mask and half of Ocarina of Time. Dr. Mario only serves to represent the few games of Puzzle games that Dr. Mario has had. But you would think if Nintendo really wanted a Puzzle rep. They'd go for Lip from Panel De Pon that is represented with the Lip's Stick in the items, or heck… even a Tetris Block. That's right, a Tetris Block would have been a much better idea then Dr. Mario. There's just no excuse for Doctor Mario whatsoever. He'd be better as an Alt. Costume which something Project M has done very well and even managed to make it so Mario had the Pills with the proper sound effect. Also I do like the Dr. Mario series. I play the Dr. Wario game that's a part of WarioWare on my 3DS on occasion that's essentially the same game. But who honestly believes that they deserved to be represented in Smash in terms of the roster? Or even if there were demand. Wouldn't something like the Viruses be a better idea even if that wouldn't really go well either? At least it'd be something Unique compared to Dr. Mario who is literally just a slightly better Mario. Worst of all however, is how he may still have been considered for Brawl considering his presence in the Forbidden 7. I'm just going to say now that had that happened. It would destroy the very idea of merit in Smash Bros and would pave the way for more "What the fuck were you thinking?!" additions in the future. Luckily, Dr. Mario did not return. And we did not have an inclusion like his in either Brawl or Smash 4 thus far. This is the closest Smash has gotten to what people have a problem with Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina in Mario Kart 8. Only it's 10x worse because in Mario Kart games you don't have to give a single flying fuck who's playable. But in Smash all characters with no exception should have a merit to them. Now technically the Dr. Mario games do give them more merit then Pink Gold Peach or Baby Rosalina. Because a real equivalent of them would to make an alternate version of a character that was never in a previous game for. But compared to any other character included in Smash previously and even after which, Dr. Mario sticks out like a sore thumb. Even Pichu makes more sense since it was used to represent the newest generation of Pokemon even if it wasn't the greatest choice they could have chosen. And at least it was a different Pokemon even if a Pichu is essentially a Baby Pikachu and it even had a gimmick that was all it's own. Granted a gimmick that no one likes (Using electric attacks hurts itself) but a unique gimmick nonetheless. But Dr. Mario has barely anything, only representing a small series of games within the Mario franchise, is appearance is just Mario in a different costume with a pill replacing the Fireball. Dr. Mario overall plays pretty much just like Mario and he's only played competitively because people discovered some of his moves make him slightly better then Mario. Which, just makes you ask why they didn't just give those properties to Mario in the first place.

As such, Dr. Mario remains the most embarrassing inclusion in the entire Smash Bros. series in my honest opinion. Thankfully Smash Bros. has never made another inclusion like it since. And still hasn't. It's the biggest reason why while we had a good amount of great additions in Melee both Brawl and I think Smash 4 has already far surpassed the character selection. Melee does have the excuse that it had a really short development time. It was made within one year, though to make sure the game kept the quality, Sakurai worked himself tiresomely every day throughout that year. It's really obvious that many of the clone-ish characters were included just to beef up the roster. Because without clones you only have 18-19 characters in the Roster. Which is just the Original 12 plus 6-7 more characters. And that's just too small of an addition number for a sequel to Smash Bros. So I understand why clones were added in the first place to make the roster bigger then it would have been otherwise. I am nonetheless still puzzled by Dr. Mario despite this fact because even knowing that it kinda spells laziness. I would of rather Dr. Mario not been included at all. 24 characters would be a nice even number anyway. And despite odd inclusions like Roy and Pichu it'd be like Smash Games included at least 12 new characters in each installment. That said, the combination of Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, and Ganondorf being a Captain Falcon clone has cemented Melee as the worst game roster-wise. The game as a whole is better then SSB64. But if a Smash game was defined by the overall merit of all the newcomers in the game. Then Melee is the worst of the series. Luckily, the next game in the series would not only fix the mistakes in Roster Merit by clearing most of the strange additions but also adding quite a bit of characters that have excellent merit. Even characters that aren't owned by Nintendo each having their own merit in their own special kind of way.

 

[SonicMario]

SUPER SMASH BROS. BRAWL

While Brawl's gameplay changes that made it completely different from Brawl has split the Smash Bros. fanbase on which game was better. There's usually at one thing that most people agree upon: Brawl had the much better selection of characters. Not just because the Roster was bigger then Melee's by at least 10 not counting Transformations, but also pretty much every character in the game has some sort of merit. Once again, only newcomers from Brawl currently unconfirmed for Smash 4 will be included in this. Quite literally the only Newcomer in Brawl I have some beef with is Toon Link but at least he's kinda basically Young Link done much better and at least he represents something. But I can't talk about him here because he's already been confirmed for Smash 4 anyhow. Again, I'm going to list what I think what each of the unconfirmed have from the most merit from the top, to the least at the bottom. That said, unlike with Melee, I like every one of these additions so even being my least favorite of the 7 unconfirmed Brawl Newcomers is not a bad thing in this case.

WARIO

Starting with the fat man himself, there should be absolutely no qualms about Wario's inclusion. He's a character that easily could of made Melee as well. If roster inclusions weren't so rushed. What else I can say other then he was a very welcome addition as he was announced in the game's first trailer. For some reason his farting was cited as one of the reasons Brawl was rated Teen. When even with Snake and Wario's farting. Brawl should have been E10+ regardless. Not that it matters too much though I suppose. Wario should be showing up sooner or later. We already saw the W symbol in the Assist Trophy showcase on both Ashley and Waluigi oddly enough. (I'm kinda half-hoping that's a sign we'll see Waluigi popping up more often in any new Wario games. Making his inclusion in the next Smash all the more likely. He'd probably have a better chance as a 2nd Wario rep as opposed to a sixth Mario rep). The question will be however if the Biker outfit will remain his default or not. Or if it will be switched for his usual Plumber outfit. I think no matter what we'll have the choice again. As many other characters are getting neat costumes. But we'll just have to wait and see

META KNIGHT

Meta Knight's rather infamous in Smash. He's a really popular character inclusion. But ever since the time he's been banned in some Competitive Smash tournies. He's sometimes deemed as the character that "broke" Brawl. Even jokes about how "Of course he's broken! Meta is in his name!". Nonetheless, not many people really doubt his return to Smash. He's probably just switched places with Dedede this time as he'll be the unlockable this time while Dedede is the starter in his place. The only thing really against could be if Sakurai's modesty showed up heavily again and he was kept out for the same reason he wasn't in Melee. Sakurai not wanting to flaunt his franchises. That said Palutena did get in Smash 4 thanks to Uprising, and it was thanks to Fan Demand that Meta Knight and Dedede got in Brawl despite Sakurai's modesty about his series so it's a bit of a moot point.

SNAKE

You may be asking why I have Snake in the Top 3. While it's true he's not all that important to Nintendo. He has an entirely different merit that effect the Smash Bros. franchise as a whole and I felt deemed him at least above four other characters who were Nintendo owned. 3rd Parties would have never come into Smash without the inclusion of Snake. There would be a decent suggestion for Sonic even without the knowledge that 3rd Parties are even possible. But demand for Sonic was huge upon learning 3rd Parties were now possible in Smash. Just think about how the franchise would have been without Snake included. While the Nintendo purists would of loved this more. We would of never gotten the hype reveal of Sonic in October 10th, 2007. And I really believe we would of never got our Megaman or Pac-Man reveals either that we have in Smash 4. Nintendo would of likely remained strictly Nintendo characters without Snake. Snake was also the most shocking reveal in Smash Bros. franchise history. No one ever saw it coming, and no character reveal in Smash Bros. will ever have the same intensity. This was huge for Smash Bros because it's been proven that 3rd Parties are some of the most hypable stuff just because they're so limited and they've chosen 3 characters that have the merits on their own as classic icons as well as have a good history with Nintendo. Snake also had his own moveset, and even though some people say he doesn't fit. I think the quirkiness of stuff like his Codec calls for each of the characters in the game made him work well anyway with the cast. It's also nice to see a friendship between two highly known game developers be the reason this happened in the first place. Sakurai and Kojima made 3rd Parties in Smash possible. That said I can't say he does have obstacles in his way for Smash 4 that despite having merit enough for the Smash Bros. franchise alone. Might keep him out anyway. He's still 3rd Party meaning they have to ask Konami's permission again which could be denied. Plus the last Metal Gear game on a Nintendo system was Metal Gear Solid 3D. Which was a remake of Snake Eater put on the 3DS. With no sign of a Metal Gear game on the Wii U as of yet. And as Sonic, Megaman, and Pac-Man has all been confirmed. It kinda seems like they're being advertised as if they'e the only 3rd Parties in the game. That said, Sonic and Megaman was basically advertised as a bit of a duo for a time back around when Sonic was confirmed to return. Not to mention the Rayman trophy makes things quite interesting from a 3rd party front. Could Snake appear in the game after all? Even if it's the ultimate gut punch as just a regular trophy? I'm personally hoping Snake returns after all, but I'll understand if he doesn't. I think he will be by far the most missed character if he is not in Smash 4 though. Yes, even more so then Mewtwo. We would be playing Smash 4. And see we can see Sonic, Megaman, and Pac-Man all fight each other to out hearts content. Yet the game would be missing the one character that had he not been included. None of them would of ever got that close to getting in Smash. Sonic fans like myself, and those who wanted Megaman and Pac-Man in Smash Bros. owe a lot to Solid Snake.

POKEMON TRAINER

A bit odd that the character likely gone from Smash 4 is this high. But he did have quite a bit of merit to him. It's just limitations of the 3DS version just couldn't allow for the Pokemon Trainer's main gimmick. That said if Smash 5 is Console Only again or at least the next Nintendo handheld can handle transformations better. Then Pokemon Trainer shold be a top candidate to be one of the cut characters to come back in some way. He's high simply because of importance to the Pokemon franchise. It's just technical limitations that prevents him from keeping that merit through more games. At least we'll have his Charizard to keep us company until then.

ROB

ROB is basically Brawl's Mr. Game and Watch. Though a far less popular inclusion in comparison to Game & Watch because of instead of being this amazing surprise that people unlocked all of a sudden. He's a character that got hate on for quite a bit just for not being "*insert heavily wanted character Pre-Brawl*". However as the years passed by, ROB has actually some hidden merit to him that people just had to let him grow onto. ROB back in the 1980s was just a NES peripheral that only worked for two games. And while it's arguable on just how much impact ROB actually had on the saving of the Video Game Industry after the big crash. As it's probably realistically Super Mario Bros. in 1985 that truly brought the industry out of the hole caused by the crash. We can't deny that it was a smart move to try to disguise ROB as a Toy to be a bit of a trojan horse for Kids and their Parents to buy more NES systems and thus make money in an industry that seemed to be on the decline. If anything it might of at least had been a curiosity for kids to get the system to try out the new Robot toy they have. And later on they would get Super Mario Bros, which would be the true hit of the system. Going into the 90s though and most of the 2000's. ROB went into quite a bit of obscurity. Oddly his first playable appearance for the longest time was in a Mario Kart game of all things. Mario Kart DS. ROB was also a character people thought weren't making in because there were screenshot of Enemy ROB when it turned out there was going to be a Playable ROB despite that. Even though ROB was not well-liked at first. He would grow in many people's eyes as he provided his own moveset and place in the game as a really neat homage to the NES era. That said the Story Mode might be cause for concern for those who want ROB to return. As of course ROB was the Ancient Minister in that game. It's quite possible that ROB was included as basically the story mode's representative to be a surprise when you played the Story mode when you're shown just who the Ancient Minister was. And now without the Story mode, there may not be a need to have him come back if push comes to shove. That said, a unique moveset and regardless of just how much of an impact ROB had on saving the Video game industry. Even being a little retro has gone a long way, the Ice Climbers don't seem like they're going anywhere soon and their only overall impact was a single game on the NES that hasn't aged well. So I wouldn't find it too farfetched that ROB comes back in Smash 4. Besides if ROB doesn't come back. Nintendo would miss the opportunity to return ROB to his old role with the idea with the Amiibos. You have to admit it would be cool to have a summonable ROB buddy once again in video games even if's way different from the original ROB. There's just something way too fitting about that

WOLF

Wolf is an interesting addition as he's the 3rd character for the Star Fox series. Yet some question if Star Fox with it's infrequency doesn't deserve that many. However Wolf is a popular character within the franchise that's been in the series since Star Fox 64. His "Can't Let You Do That, Star Fox" is still just one of the many memetic mutations from that game. In Brawl, he's also far more different then Fox then Falco was. He had a moveset that at it's core was similar. But pretty much most if not all his A moves were different. And even his Special moves required him to play quite a bit different from either Fox or Falco. Despite this however, because he's the newcomer he's likely going to be the one cut if Star Fox reps shrink at all. I would not be surprised at all to see him make a return to Smash 4 however

LUCAS

Now before any Lucas fans get mad at me for saying he has the worst overall merit. I just want to say I don't hate Lucas. I think it's great that he's in the game with Ness and all so the fans of Earthbound can select their protagonist they like more or like to fight as more. And I'd really like Lucas to return as long as Ness does as well. I know that Mother 3 usually is known for having the best overall story of the Earthbound games and just like what I said Wolf. He may be similar to Ness in basic core moves, but he still has a different playstyle that differentiates him enough to make him his own character. However with having Wolf's Pros. He also has one of his cons. Even though everyone and their dog once thought Lucas was replacing Ness due to the whole "Up Until Now" debacle during Brawl. It looks like the shoe's on the other foot this time. Because now Ness has Seniority, and not to mention Earthbound has been re-released on the Wii U to give further exposure to Ness while Mother 3 officially remains in Japan shores only. But this is only if Earthbound representation shrinks at all. It's entirely possible for Lucas to return as well. There are some people that are hoping that the jokes in the Digital Event at Nintendo's E3 was cluing us in on something. The guy who was put on fire and later disintegrated by Reggie in the Robot Chicken skits complained about a new Starfox game and Mother 3. As of now we have the former confirmed. Could we actually get what Earthbound/Mother fans have been clamoring for in a surprise announcement some day?

Overall, Brawl was a return to form after some odd additions in Melee. Pretty much everybody in Brawl has their merits. There's a big reason why there's quite a bit who would prefer no one was cut at all from Brawl even though it is inevitable that someone's not going to return. Ivysaur and Squirtle already looking to be the first casualties. The only questions are if they'll be the only ones. Or could be one or even two or more of the 7 I mentioned here not make it in at the end of it all? We're less then 2 months from knowing for sure (Even less if CoroCoro indeed is showing every playable character in the game. But again, they said something similar for Brawl prior so don't entirely take their word for it). So only time will tell. Until we know Smash 4's full roster Brawl still holds it's title as the best complete roster so far. We have to wait and see if Smash 4 proves to surpass even Brawl's near perfect roster.

SUPER SMASH BROS. 4

Now it's finally time to go over the merits of the currently confirmed Smash 4 newcomers. I have to say that so far the Newcomers for Smash 4 are… interesting to say the least. Some gladly have earned their place in Smash. Others however are a little more questionable. Even if I'd say none of the inclusions are as bad as Pichu or Dr. Mario's inclusions. And even some of those who do have a place are somewhat controversial within the Smash fanbase for what they represent. Again, I'm starting with most meritable to least in my honest opinion.

MEGA MAN

Without a doubt, Mega Man so far is the character with the most merit out of all the Smash 4 newcomers so far. After it turned out Brawl would only have Sonic and Snake. Megaman basically became the New Sonic as he became the most requested Third Party character after of course Sonic having gotten in the series in the first place. There was doubts however since Megaman was kinda on the down low with not many new games and including Capcom getting scrutiny for going as far as canceling a new Mega Man game. Many are saying Capcom have forsaken their old mascot and left him to die. Regardless if this is true our not. At least the Mega Man fans have the elation to know that he'll be among Nintendo's best in Smash 4. And he truly has earned it already with his pedigree in the NES days of the many classic Megaman games. Those games were quite difficult, but those who persevered and managed to learn all the tips and tricks to going through a Mega Man game found themselves having a really enjoyable game style matched by nearly no other. For a time he was already a Nintendo Icon considering he's one of the main characters in the Captain N the Game Master show where he's friends with Pit, Mario, and even Konami's Simon Belmont (Which funnily enough, there are quite a bit of people who wouldn't mind Simon got in just to complete the Captain N cast). So while he was never officially Nintendo, back in the day not many people had the same distinction between 1st Party and 3rd Party like we do now. So to some, people may have been thinking he was owned by Nintendo anyway just looking at how the franchise was bringing Mario game types of success. So in some ways, Mega Man's inclusion in Smash feels like a long-time coming even if copyright prevented him from getting in 64 or Melee, and he just didn't have the demand that Sonic had prior to Brawl. But this is a character that's earned the merit to be in Smash Bros. long ago but because of the limitations on 3rd Parties didn't come to pass until just now. Even as someone that isn't really much of a Mega Man fan myself. I have to say that I welcome you with open arms to Smash Bros., Mega Man it's been a long time coming

MII FIGHTERS

What's that? One of, if not the most controversial Newcomers is #2 in Merit Ranks? Yes. And here's why: The Wii would not have not been the success it was without the Miis. Just look at the Top 10 most successful Wii Games. The Top 3 were all Mii related games. Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Wii Fit in that order. When most of the other newcomers represented what was successful on the Wii. Smash games have the tendency to celebrate the biggest things about the previous generation by representing them in the Roster in some way or another. And if the Miis were not included, there would be a huge hole in the game's attempt to celebrate the Wii. What's more is ever since the Direct, we've known that Custom Movesets is a new addition to the Smash series that will be introduced in Smash 4. And we know now as of E3, Miis will be the most customizable out of all the characters. Not just through appearance, but there's three different types with 12 specials to choose from meaning those who experiment with the Miis will be rewarded with the ability to mix and match between the equivalent of nine characters with their own Special Moves and it's made even more astronomical in customization with the reveal that the Miis will also have different playstyles depending on their height. If you prefer playing faster characters or more powerful characters then you get from the default Mii size, you can shrink or make your Mii Taller similar to how you can change the size in the Mario Kart games to pick the Mii to have your favorite weight class. So if one moveset isn't working out in your current Mii's size. See if it works out better if your Mii is faster or stronger. So much to do, and that's why I believe the Mii Fighters will basically be the very symbol of Custom Movesets when it comes out even though it will be available to all fighters. This is an awesome concept that could really make Smash 4 stand out from the previous Smash games and only makes me more excited to try out at least most of the combinations with the Miis as long as with the other fighters. Not only are the Miis one of the most deserving newcomers in the game due to the success they've brought to Nintendo these days, they're being used in a way that will define what's new in Smash 4 that not even most of the other characters can say the same. As a neat bonus, the Mii Fighters also are the new Multi-Man fighting team (There's a small amount of footage confirming this in the 3DS trailer we got at E3) which explains why their symbol is the Smash Bros. symbol. So not only are they representing the new idea introduced in Smash, they are also successors to the Polygon Team, the Wireframes, and the Alloys from all the previous games before hand. Except this time they'll be among the playable characters, and actually quite clever way of both including a deserving character and paying homage to the Multi-Man teams of the past by having them playable.

LITTLE MAC

Little Mac is another of those characters that probably had this a long-time coming. But just didn't have the exposure that could get him into the first two games. He would get some attention in Brawl, but only as an Assist Trophy. But luckily he's now in Smash 4 as the only character so far to have been promoted from Assist Trophy to Playable. He's also based on his appearance in the latest entry in the Punch-Out franchise that came out on the Wii that has been given critical acclaim. And now he'll be able to punch not just Donkey Kong this time around. What also makes his fighting style unique is he has a KO meter that if it's full and he manages to get a good special punch in he has a one-hit KO move. That while rewarding, probably is a bit difficult to perform however. Other difficulties Little Mac however is he won't be that good in the air, though he'll be a tough opponent if he manages to keep his foe grounded. But anyway, as a boxer it's only fitting that he's got in the ring with Nintendo's best after all these years. It will be quite nice to see him fight.

PAC-MAN

Pac-Man is a very interesting inclusion because it really brings a sense of a larger purpose for Smash Bros. then it's original conception. With Pac-Man in the game. We have a representative of early 90s 16-bit retro gaming (Sonic), Late 80s/NES era rep (Megaman), Early to Mid 80s rep (Mario), and a rep that harkens back to the days gaming could mainly be found in Arcades (Pac-Man). 4 Classic Gaming icons are in the same game for the very first time and we can all see them fight each other on-screen. Pac-Man be also basically be the founding father of Video Game mascots that almost all the characters in the game owe their very existence to. But really the selling point will be Mario Vs. Sonic Vs. Megaman Vs. Pac-Man regarding his inclusion. That should bring anybody looking to nostalgia it up coming along to buy the game. His moveset is also pretty classic taking moves from many older games. He even got to have his Pac-Man World design as opposed to the Ghostly Adventures one that many people have expressed dislike for. So that made people who were initially against him because of that design warm up pretty much instantly. However that said, there are a few things that kinda lower his merit for Smash Bros. While he is a gaming icon, he's mainly known for the Arcade games as opposed to Megaman's influence on the NES in the 80s or Sonic's rivalry-turned-friendship with Mario. Despite all the games he's had on Nintendo platforms not many recognize him for that and just associate him with the original arcade game that's one of the few widely recognized games nearly around the world. What's more is that Pac-Man didn't get in the Smash Bros. games the same way the others were. Both Sonic and Megaman got in through massive fan demand, Snake got in through the friendship between Hideo Kojima and Sakurai. Pac-Man mainly got in because Namco just happened to be helping make the game. Don't get me wrong I'm happy Pac-Man is in and all. But he doesn't feel like he earned it like Sonic and Megaman, and it doesn't seems like a personal thing like Snake's inclusion was. It feels more business supported rather then getting in through legit fan demand or an actual connection to Sakurai or Nintendo bringing Pac-Man in. At least with Pac-Man not using the Ghostly Adventures design it's not quite as blatant of an advertisement as it could have been. But nonetheless the implications of Pac-Man just feel less meritable because of this compared to the other 3rd Parties that have been in Smash. Nonetheless, Pac-Man's place as an icon of Gaming History still gives him excellent merit that makes him one of the more deserving characters in the game.

 

[SonicMario]

VILLAGER

Villager is just a nice addition that represents the loved Animal Crossing franchise. It's also proof of just how Sakurai's thoughts can change between games. As before Brawl, Sakurai considering an Animal Crossing Villager to be way too peaceful to fight in Smash Bros. But lo and behold, this time around he's a capable fighter that doesn't stray too far from the franchise's roots. And while he wasn't the most expected first newcomer revealed, people warmed up to him pretty fast and from what I'm hearing from people who played him in the Demo he's so far been pretty good. Animal Crossing has been referred in Smash since Melee. Though back in Melee, Animal Crossing was a "Future Release" but the franchise got a stage in Brawl and finally managed to get it's own character in Smash 4. Aside from the memes that portray Villager as a serial killer, this is really neat to see a franchise normally known for being generally peaceful still manage to make a good moveset in Smash Bros. What I like about the Smash series is it can turn the unexpected into capable fighters in their own right even against characters who are more fighting oriented. And Villager is just one of the perfect examples of that. A character does not have to have a fighting pedigree in order to get into Smash. And that's something that's amazing about the Franchise cause it doesn't have to discriminate between characters that deserve to be in smash but don't have an easy to make Moveset as opposed to those who do. Without that distinction, we never get characters like Captain Falcon, Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, or Villager.

ROBIN

While I'm not a Fire Emblem fan myself, I must say how glad I am that we have a new rep that isn't just another sword user. Yeah he/she still uses a Sword, but it's not the only thing he/she fights with. As it seems he has magic that summons lightning, fire, and even dark magic. I always considered Robin to be a bit of a dark horse rep when hearing about him/her. If Chrom wasn't playable, I was sure as heck Robin would be the next in-line. And sure enough that's what happened to the surprise of many. Possibly disproving a leak that almost everyone believed, meaning Speculation is completely free again. While I wouldn't of minded if the Gematsu Leak was true or even that's all the newcomers we got. It is good to see that maybe we don't know the final roster after all with Robin's reveal.

PALUTENA

I have to admit that Palutena is something I was a bit wrong about. I never really expected Kid Icarus to get a 2nd character prior to the direct despite the leak that was out there. But I was convinced that Palutena was inevitable after the Direct basically all but confirmed her with teases and things that made it more obvious like the change to Pit's Final Smash. Kid Icarus is a long-running franchise. So I suppose it's fair it at least got one more rep. And Palutena is a good choice to bring yet another female into the cast. What's interesting to note that Palutena is the only character so far other then the Mii fighters that has different special moves within her custom movesets instead of just variations of a default moveset like the others have. So finding out her combinations will be interesting. While I'm entirely not excited for her, I know she was a really popular choice that's made many people happy that she's in the game. And at least I've seen a full let's play to get anything Uprising related that pops up in Smash 4.

WII FIT TRAINER

Oh Wii Fit Trainer, the character literally no one saw coming and has since been a bit controversial in some areas. Literually if you made Wii Fit Trainer's initials and switched them around you literally get people's reaction to learning she is an actual Playable Character (WTF). That said does this mean she doesn't have that much merit. Well arguably she kinda does. She's a part of one of the best selling Wii Games of all-time. Wii Fit is only beaten by Wii Sports and Wii Play for what games had the best sales for any game on the Wii. It's just no one imagined that they would make the Trainer playable whatsoever. It was literally a choice not even those who look for the more obscure characters to support ever saw coming. This does present a problem though. If you look at Wii Fit, you're not forced to see the Wii Fit Trainer at any point of the game. If you never go to the Yoga or Strength Training sections of the game. You barely see a second of the Wii Fit Trainer. And even if you do, she doesn't strike as someone major enough to get in Smash. The inclusion makes a little more sense if you consider Wii Fit Trainer like the 2nd rep of the Wii series and the Mii Fighters the main rep of that series. Wii Fit Trainer as an inclusion would of made even less sense if Miis were not playable in Smash 4 because Wii Fit Trainer is not the star of the game. The star of the game is you, or otherwise the Miis. I think many would be scratching their head a lot more about Wii Fit Trainer being a character without the Miis in there. Granted some are probably going to scratch their head at both otherwise. But anyway, Wii Fit Trainer is one of the lower merit characters because literally any merit the Trainer has is just riding on the coattails on the success of the Miis not any special focus on herself. At the very least, she looks like she could be an interesting character at least. She could end up growing on people when people start actually playing as her in the upcoming games.

ROSALINA

Rosalina is the first fifth character to carry the Mushroom Symbol since Dr. Mario. And is much better choice then Dr. Mario is. Rosalina actually represents what is a major game of the Mario series. And she's a unique character using a different take on duo fighting then the Ice Climbers did with the addition of Luma. The Mario series definitely needed a new rep that could bring their own type of fighting into the fray instead of just being a direct copy of one of the characters. And Rosalina provides that. HOWEVER, was she really the best choice to be that 5th rep? I mean she's part of representing the Wii generation. But with the Mii Fighters and even Wii Fit Trainer being there. Is a character who's relatively just a supporting character throughout Super Mario Galaxy and someone you can talk to throughout the game really already have enough for Smash Bros when there are choices in the Mario series that do have a little more merit to her? Don't get me wrong, I think Rosalina's a neat inclusion. And there are characters out there that would have even worse merit at this point and time (Example: Daisy). But there are characters that would provide an extra special touch as the new Mario rep. One example being Toad, which even though as part of Peach's moveset may make it difficult. He would have Merit for Smash as only character that was considered pretty major in some games throughout the 80s and 90s. As well as got a recent revival as the 3rd and 4th players in the New Super Mario Bros. games. He's also always been a decently wanted character for Smash Bros. Which it has to be quite painful for those who have wanted Toad to get in after all this time but is upstaged by a character who's only existed since 2007-2008 in comparison to Toad who's been around since Super Mario Bros.. Even more humiliating, is the pic before Rosalina's confirmation shows Link about to shoot Toad being held by Peach. As if Rosalina's inclusion was the arrow that was about to kill Toad's chances of getting into Smash 4. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of bitterness over this. Even if say Captain Toad were to become DLC to promote the Captain Toad game coming out at around the same time as Smash. While I'm not opposed to her inclusion, it still feels like she hadn't really earned it yet. I'd still take Rosalina over Dr. Mario of course, but it still feels off when you really think about it

LUCINA

The last two characters that we know are some of the inclusions I'm at least a little puzzled about. Because both have elements of what my problems with Roy's inclusion were. They're both at least slightly better then Roy for one reason or another. But Lucina's inclusion is similar to Roy in that she's a clone or semi-clone of Marth. Though at least her game is released and she was a popular character. She's not entirely as promotional as Roy was as a result of this. But the way her moveset was done was borderline similar to Roy. And while of course I haven't played much Fire Emblem (My only experience is a bit of the GBA game I got for free as an Ambassador for the 3DS) so I don't exactly know too much about Lucina. I suppose I've heard enough that she pretty much is someone who honors Marth. And even for a time put on a Mask and disguised herself as Marth for a reason I haven't heard yet (Though I don't think she did it just to cosplay heh). At the very least though regarding being a semi-clone. It's possible that Custom Movesets will be able to help Lucina be even more different from Marth. So even if Lucina was basically everything like Roy, we have the options to change her up a little more. That's just one of the many good things about Custom Movesets.

GRENINJA

I know it's weird to say that a character that actually has a unique moveset to their credit is my choice for the least meritable inclusion in Smash 4. But come on, if I can find Lucina and Rosalina weird for slight promotional usage. It should be fair to say that Greninja just kinda reaks of promotion inclusion. It's not nearly as inexcusable as Roy's as yes, Pokemon X&Y came out before Smash 4 will. And at least this game is Worldwide. But that doesn't change the fact that there is no other character other then Roy that at least had 2 years to establish themselves as Nintendo characters. This reeks of a situation Gamefreak called Sakurai that they'd like to reserve a spot for a character in X&Y and they'd call back to tell them which one they wanted to promote Pokemon X&Y. But what's even weirder, is Greninja himself wasn't even that promoted much beforehand. Froakie was more well known as what would evolve into Greninja because it was the starter Pokemon. In some ways this is just the strangest Pokemon inclusion ever. Even Pichu had some promotion to it since it was the baby form of the unofficial mascot, plus there were the Pichu Bros. shorts. And maybe it's been because I haven't been around the Pokemon scene for the longest time. Was there any type of fan poll where everyone picked their favorite Pokemon so far that they knew of in Pokemon X&Y and Greninja happened to be at the top or at least near the top? Greninja looks like he'll be a great fighter and has his own style to him. But there's absolutely no clear indication of how and why he was chosen in Particular. It just adds another chapter to the one franchise in Smash Bros which has had the most radical changes and choices throughout it's history in Smash. Pikachu and even Jigglypuff being the only constants. While we got Pichu and Mewtwo in Melee who were both gone by the next game. Then we have Pokemon Trainer who is then shrunk down to only Charizard in Smash 4 and we have Greninja who's debut game will just barely be a year old by the time Super Smash Bros. on the 3DS comes out in October. Most Smash inclusions are promotions of some kind, but even with new Generation reps which were Pichu and Lucario we had time beforehand to see them as Pokemon that could be used for Smash after we've had about 2 years and at least some kind of animated feature to get to know that Pokemon enough. Greninja didn't have that, and just comes out of nowhere that's somewhat more surprising then even Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion. As such, right now it's my least favorite inclusion in Smash 4. But I want to stress that while it is my least favorite of Smash 4's inclusions thus far. I don't think it's as bad as the Bottom 3 inclusions of Melee, at the same time though Lucas was my least favorite inclusion of the currently unconfirmed characters but I like him a lot more then Greninja. In fact, how about I give you an overlook by giving you my list of what were the Top 10 Inclusions out of all the characters I covered today (Meaning only unconfirmed characters from SSB64, Melee, Brawl and the confirmed Newcomers of Smash 4) both with the Most, and the Least

TOP 10 LISTS

TOP 10 Most Meritable Inclusions (Of those currently Unconfirmed + Smash 4 Newcomers)

10. Snake (The reason we have 3rd Party characters in the first place)
9. Meta Knight (A unique fighter that rounds out the Kirby cast)
8. Mewtwo (Despite being cut due to Time restraints, remains a Pokemon rep that truly deserved his spot)
7. Little Mac (A boxer who's been waiting for many years to get in the Smash Bros. ring)
6. Mii Fighters (Essential to the Wii's success, and the symbol of the Custom Movesets that will set Smash 4 apart)
5. Jigglypuff (All Original 12 are given great merit. Even to the least liked of them. Has been a part of Smash for years and I don't think we're going to stop the Jiggs just yet)
4. Ness (Again, the Original 12 Magic gives this little boy excellent merit within the Franchise and is the poster-boy of a cult classic franchise)
3. Wario (A Mario Sub-Series character that has long earned his spot. The Wario Land and WarioWare franchises both earn him at least equal standing with Original 12 members Yoshi and Donkey Kong)
2. Mr. Game and Watch (A representative of Nintendo gaming even before Mario and even Pac-Man. Makes you go WTF when you unlock him the first time in Melee but is subtly one of the best ideas Nintendo or Sakurai have ever had)
1. Mega Man (The one third party that even compared to the others really does have a long awaited place in Smash Bros.)

SSB64: 2, Melee: 2, Brawl: 3, Smash 4: 3

Each game has at least two characters in the Top 10. Let's hope that most of the 7 currently unconfirmed from SSB64, Melee, and Brawl are all just waiting to be confirmed.

TOP 10 Least Meritable inclusions (Of those currently Unconfirmed + Smash 4 Newcomers)

10. Ice Climbers (Has a moveset and playstyle all their own, but their origin still comes from a rather mediocre NES game)
9. Ganondorf (I'm not saying he isn't important. Because he really is Zelda-wise. But the whole slower, more powerful Captain Falcon just is too boggling to really keep up with the merit of being the big bad guy of Zelda)
8. Wii Fit Trainer (Unique moveset, but is from a game where it's quite possible to avoid any contact with the Trainer. The Miis were the stars of that game anyway)
7. Rosalina (Again, Unique moveset. But it's hard to really know if Rosalina has really earned this yet. It feels a little too soon)
6. Lucina (Is basically Roy just with much better merit. That said, her popularity doesn't hide the fact that she is indeed at least somewhat of a clone.)
5. Greninja (Just way too soon, and no forewarning)
4. Young Link (At least the spirit of the character is seen and even done much better through Toon Link)
3. Roy (Your game wasn't even out yet. What were you doing in Smash already?!)
2. Pichu (Sakurai's known for disliking cuts, Pichu's the one character however he's made no effort to bring back. Think about that for a moment)
1. Dr. Mario (why)

SSB64: 0, Melee: 6, Brawl: 0, Smash 4: 4

While I'm not entirely opposed to anyone of the unconfirmed or the Smash 4 Newcomers from 10-5. It's probably for the best that the Top 4 remain out of Smash. Even if technically Young Link is still with Toon Link being his spiritual successor. Even if that counts though, then I think it's fair enough that the Top 3 just don't need to return whatsoever. For those who like Roy, at least you have Project M.

And that's all I have to say. I hope you enjoyed my overlook on what a character's merit means to Smash Bros. As I feel it's what makes the Smash Bros. series special when we can say "Yes, this character deserved/earned his spot". And the right to criticize a character if they're included when they don't exactly meet the merit of most of the other characters. While we're still waiting to see how Smash 4's roster is going to be at the end. So far, Brawl still has the best overall merit in it's roster then any other game. With almost no character that has not somewhat earned their spot. In regards to Overall Roster merit, Brawl's had the best. Followed by the Original 12 of SSB 64, then what we have so far of Smash 4 (Depending who else we get though, it could grow to the 2nd Best). And Melee remains as the worst overall in Roster merit. But of course alot of this can be quite subjective and there are probably a good portion of you that will disagree with something I had to say throughout this whole thing. I did at least try to let what I'm not familiar with bias me towards certain characters. Such as I'm not even a huge Mega Man fan but I rewarded him as the most merited inclusion out of all the characters currently unconfirmed for Smash and the currently known Smash newcomers. Thanks for reading!

 

[Ray Trace]

I disagree that the Ice Climbers were in because of probably personal preference. I fail to see how their origin game being decent should qualify for a character to be in the roster. And let's be honest: Pit being added in Super Smash Bros. Brawl was way much before a reboot was probably even planned. It's entirely possible we might have an Ice Climbers reboot in the future. I'm pretty sure the Ice Climbers were added in simply because they're obscure Nintendo characters that are still part of Nintendo's history regardless of the quality of the game.

 

[SonicMario]

I disagree that the Ice Climbers were in because of probably personal preference. I fail to see how their origin game being decent should qualify for a character to be in the roster. And let's be honest: Pit being added in Super Smash Bros. Brawl was way much before a reboot was probably even planned. It's entirely possible we might have an Ice Climbers reboot in the future. I'm pretty sure the Ice Climbers were added in simply because they're obscure Nintendo characters that are still part of Nintendo's history regardless of the quality of the game.

I don't think I said that the Ice Climber's game was a qualification. More so the unique way they play. And while it's true they are part of Nintendo history regardless. They don't feel they have the same kind of impact that other Retro characters brought back have. Like ROB, or Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[Ray Trace]

True but I think the point of bringing them back was to shed some light on their games, not necessarily if they made an impact

 

[GalacticPetey]

BTW, CoroCoro said they are only going to talk about characters and stages we already know.

I agree that Dr. Mario was a poor edition. At the very least, they could've at least combined his strengths with Mario's to make Mario a better character in future games, like Project M did.

 

[Ray Trace]

And him being just a 2D model with blips for sounds, he's an easy to implement character.

Meh, that's not necessarily true. Mr. Game & Watch still has the ability to model-swap other character's movesets ie Mr. Game & Watch with Luigi's bones and the fact that his thrown animations are part of another character's animation set means that he's not really a 2D sprite. He still has bones and still requires rigging to vertices like any other 3D character. In fact, he's the hardest character to replace in Brawl, but that's possibly also because all of his recolors are in one file. Only one hack that I know of, a Paper Mario one, is a true replacement for Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[SonicMario]

BTW, if you'd guys like. I'm willing to do requests for potential merit on Potential Newcomers (Giving my thoughts on if a character would give more or less merit to Smash 4's current roster if they're included). Or if say you want me to discuss the merit of an already confirmed veteran. Feel free to ask me to do so.

 

[DragonFreak]

Obvious: Ridley.

Also Isaac if you want to do that.

 

[Yoshi K]

Do King K. Rool if you have the time please.

 

[Cirdec]

Do Daisy.
Pink Gold Peach and Diancie for kidding if you don't mind.

 

[Ray Trace]

Baby Mario Bros. is my request. As well as Toad.

Hope you don't get overburdened.

 

[Tyrell Badd]

I fail too see how Greninja was "Just way too soon, and no forewarning" when we had Lucario to represent Gen IV in Brawl and Mewtwo in Melee for Gen I.

 

[GalacticPetey]

and Mewtwo in Melee for Gen I.

I think a better example would be Pichu for Gen II. Mewtwo is from the same gen as Pikachu and Jigglypuff.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Speaking of which, we have too much Gen I Pokaymon, so having another Gen I Pokaymon (Mewtwo) return after seeing Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Charizard? I think it's getting excessive.

 

[Magikrazy]

I don't think Snake should be that high.

You say it's because we wouldn't have 3rd party characters without him, but that doesn't give him a free pass. We wouldn't have Mario games without Donkey Kong, but Donkey Kong doesn't just waltz into every Mario game.

 

[Fawfulthegreat64]

BTW, if you'd guys like. I'm willing to do requests for potential merit on Potential Newcomers (Giving my thoughts on if a character would give more or less merit to Smash 4's current roster if they're included). Or if say you want me to discuss the merit of an already confirmed veteran. Feel free to ask me to do so.

can you do fawful

 

[Lumastar]

BTW, if you'd guys like. I'm willing to do requests for potential merit on Potential Newcomers (Giving my thoughts on if a character would give more or less merit to Smash 4's current roster if they're included). Or if say you want me to discuss the merit of an already confirmed veteran. Feel free to ask me to do so.

can you do fawful

Can you also do Paper Mario?

 

[Ray Trace]

I don't think Snake should be that high.

You say it's because we wouldn't have 3rd party characters without him, but that doesn't give him a free pass. We wouldn't have Mario games without Donkey Kong, but Donkey Kong doesn't just waltz into every Mario game.

Besides, 3rd party characters is probably something inevitable anyway so even if Snake didn't appear in Brawl, Sonic and Mega Man probably will appear in a future Smash game at this rate.

 

[Lolcrawler]

I fail too see how Greninja was "Just way too soon, and no forewarning" when we had Lucario to represent Gen IV in Brawl and Mewtwo in Melee for Gen I.

This

Also, with Rosalina, she has quite a bit of merit. Being the new, cool, and rather intuitive thing kinda of made sense. As I like to see it, she is the only creative nintendo character made in recent years.

 

[SonicMario]

I fail too see how Greninja was "Just way too soon, and no forewarning" when we had Lucario to represent Gen IV in Brawl and Mewtwo in Melee for Gen I.

Mewtwo wasn't the newest representative because his debut was in the same game as Pikachu and Jigglypuff. As GP said you'd be more closer to point out Pichu. Which even then, I said that Pichu at least had two years of existence prior to Melee's release and had an animated short that made Pichu more well-known in the Pikachu & Pichu short that played before Pokemon the 3rd Movie. Similarly with Lucario, Diamond & Pearl came out in 2006 (in Japan) while Brawl came out in 2008. And Lucario's main movie came out also around 2006. So again we at least had two years to get to know Lucario beforehand plus an entire animated movie. Sakurai has said that what one of the things that they do with Pokemon representation is look at who's being featured in the animated movies. Greninja didn't have that, Greninja's debut game won't even be a year old when the 3DS version of Smash is released in either Japan or the US. And Greninja's only appearence in a movie is as one of the antagonist's pokemon and as a result isn't as featured as Lucario or Pichu in their respective animated features.

I fail too see how Greninja was "Just way too soon, and no forewarning" when we had Lucario to represent Gen IV in Brawl and Mewtwo in Melee for Gen I.

Also, with Rosalina, she has quite a bit of merit. Being the new, cool, and rather intuitive thing kinda of made sense. As I like to see it, she is the only creative nintendo character made in recent years.

Don't get me wrong, I like what they're doing with Rosalina anyway. And I don't hate her inclusion that much

I should actually clear up something. Even though Smash 4 has some of the least favorable inclusions IMO you should know there's a big gap after Young Link

So really it's: Ice Climbers > Ganondorf > Wii Fit Trainer > Rosalina > Lucina > Greninja >> Young Link >>> Roy >>>>> Pichu >>>>>> Dr.Mario

I don't think Snake should be that high.

You say it's because we wouldn't have 3rd party characters without him, but that doesn't give him a free pass. We wouldn't have Mario games without Donkey Kong, but Donkey Kong doesn't just waltz into every Mario game.

Besides, 3rd party characters is probably something inevitable anyway so even if Snake didn't appear in Brawl, Sonic and Mega Man probably will appear in a future Smash game at this rate.

I don't know. Sure there might of been people still calling for Sonic and/or Megaman regardless. But I don't think anybody would of found 3rd Parties feasible for Smash until Snake broke that barrier. Sonic's demand would definitely not have been huge enough to push Sonic into Brawl without people knowing if 3rd Parties were even possible in Smash Bros.

Also regardless of Snake being that high, remember that this list excludes characters that are already confirmed. Snake is #10 out of a total of #10 out of 29 as opposed to all +50 characters that have been playable in the Smash series. If this was a total list, Snake would be lower. But I see Snake have just enough effect on the Smash series to warrant just squeezing into the Top 10 of the characters that were eligible to cover earlier.



Anyway, I'll put the Baby Mario Bros., Toad, Fawful, and Paper Mario on a list. But first I do want to post the thing I have on Ridley, Issac, King K. Rool, and Daisy in another post today which I'll have up soon.

 

[DragonFreak]

Cool. Excited to read.

 

[SonicMario]

Since all together it exceeds the character limit for posts. Ridley's and Issac's will be it's own post. While Daisy and K. Rool's will be another. Ridley and Daisy's sections are probably the reasons why.



RIDLEY

I figured when I opened up Potential Newcomer merits that this one was going to come sooner or later. Turns out I was so right this was the first one I got. So Ridley.. He's been quite a topic starter during Smash 4. Perhaps at an even larger scale then Pre-Brawl. Quite a controversial subject within the Smash Fanbase and the Ridley fans have gone through a lot this time around. Back during Brawl the only somewhat supposed major Ridley teasing was people thinking there were clouds in the shape of Ridley to hint that he's a Newcomer. But otherwise nothing really hinted Ridley and was just a hope a lot of people had until the very end. In Smash 4, we have quite a different thing going on. Last year in August we got an announcement and words by Sakurai that depending on what happens with Ridley will either be one of the most infamous and cruel vague choice of words Sakurai has ever said or a really clever hint to the eventual reveal of one of the most wanted Newcomers in Franchise History. It was the reveal of the Pyrosphere and how Sakurai said "An enemy from Samus' past may appear at any second…" since then there's been entire flame wars on the subject of whether Ridley has been officially deconfirmed or not. It just got even more intense after the Smash Direct in April when we saw a shadow and also a bit of the Wings that seemed to show Ridley is just a Stage Hazard and nothing more. However, it looks none of this has made Ridley completely out of the question because as many Ridley supporters have noted, Sakurai has been quite clear when a character is not playable like how he was with Assist Trophies or regular trophy reveals. Yet for some reason he's been pretty vague and never said anything clear about what Ridley is exactly. Is Sakurai just messing with the entire Ridley fanbase specifically to the point where he is literally going to make them wait until the Full Roster is revealed for Ridley's supporters to find out that Ridley is indeed not playable? Or is this a trolling of a completely different way in which he's giving the Ridley supporters a roller-coaster of emotions until Ridley is revealed as one of the last Newcomers before or even when the full roster is revealed. Cause if Ridley gets revealed in say the inevitable Nintendo direct in August (Which I believe will be the final Direct before the game is released in Japan, in fact… I won't be surprised if the August direct is another Smash Bros. specific direct just like April's), suddenly Ridley supporters will have one of the hugest sighs of relief among their yells of Celebration. Cause between "RIDLEY IS TOO BIG" arguments that's been around for years, the Pyrosphere update, the Direct, and more. People will finally have the character they've been arguing can make it into Smash for. Pardon if I'm talking this when it doesn't really have to do with Merit. I'll get to that soon, but it's important I address this because as there are supporters who have bravely stood firm and remain with strong beliefs that Ridley can and will be playable that ought to know that I'm very much aware of the situation regarding Ridley. I also need to address this because as with many #1 Most Wanted Newcomers there are people who are going to rise and say that it's impossible for Ridley to become playable to the point where there are Anti-Ridley folks who just like die hard fans that refuse to believe that Ridley is not playable, there are people who are the opposite and refuse to believe that he is. Pointing towards Sakurai's words and the Direct as 100% undeniable proof that Ridley isn't playable. Leading many people to butt heads in threads regarding Smash Bros. where die-hards of both sides argue for days without end. But the point in pointing this out is to say: Ridley is not out of the race yet. Regardless of what the Anti-Ridley fans have said, the Pro-Ridley fans have an excellent point that Sakurai has somehow been way too vague regarding Ridley compared to other characters he has completely deconfirmed. If Sakurai has clearly said what Ridley was, then I wouldn't have to say much because then Ridley has already been confirmed as non-playable and all I'd be talking about is what if he did make it in. But Ridley is still alive. That said he hasn't been 100% confirmed yet, so the people who truly believe Ridley will be playable with no chance of him not being so. Should have reason to at least have a little bit of doubt just in case that there is room for Ridley to not end up playable after all.

But enough about the fans of Ridley. Does Ridley have the merit for Smash 4? He does indeed. Even from a neutral perspective such as I who haven't played too much Metroid. (I've gotten confused with the 2D Sidescrollers like the original Metroid and Metroid Fusion. Both on my 3DS. And I've only gotten a little bit into each of the Prime games when I rented the Metroid Prime collection for the Wii. I can at least say I've fought Meta Ridley) Ridley is pretty much the closest to a main antagonist the Metroid series has as Ridley or at least some sort of different form (Meta Ridley) or clone (The Ridley in Metroid: Other M) in almost every Metroid game. And Ridley is a huge part of the backstory for the series as Ridley was responsible for the death of Samus Aran's parents. Which I believe gave Samus the vow for revenge and become a Bounty Hunter and eventually track down the monster who killed her parents. Also despite looking like a Monster that has no control over himself, Ridley is more intelligent then that. He's smarter then your average rampaging Monster. (He just can't Speak, unless you go by the hilarious Retsupurae member Slowbeef's voice for him) This is cool because if he's included, Nintendo would be representing one of the few bosses who look just like a monster who's rampaging just because the boss has a one-track mind where they must destroy everything in their path, but actually do have an intelligence to them. When Ridley is destroying stuff or attacking, it's because he knows his own size and strength for what he is trying to do as opposed to being a mindless monster attacking for the sake of it. That said, even if you're not that familiar whatsoever for Metroid. Ridley would definitely have a cool factor that will make younger people want to try him out. To a little boy who likes cool looking things, Ridley might just be an awesome space dragon that can fly, attack with it's claws, bite, and breathe fire. Lastly of course, though I don't think it needs much explanation regarding the whole debate and how the thread for Ridley on Smashboards alone has over 1000 pages that shows Ridley is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY popular among Smash speculators. I believe he is practically the most wanted Newcomer. The only characters that might have some possible claims to fame for being the most requested Smash Bros. characters other then Ridley are the two blue 3rd Parties Sonic and Megaman. Ridley also has a pretty long lasting fanbase regarding the people who wanted him for Smash. The seeds were planted by oddly enough the Melee opening where we see Samus fighting Ridley. Something about that seemed to spark people's desire to see him actually fight whether it was because it was disappointment that he showed up in the opening but wasn't playable in the slightest (He wasn't the only character that might of gained support from the opening of Melee. Wolf also appeared at one point. It's possible that had some influence for when Wolf got into Brawl) or they'd just like to see that happen in the next Smash game. And while Ridley was not the most requested character Pre-Brawl, he was still pretty far up there even back then. It's only now that it's no question that there's no character more wanted then Ridley at this point. The current fanbase or support for Ridley has been 13 years in the making. That said, Ridley's merit isn't perfect because of one thing. And no it's not his size, I hate the "Ridley is too big!" argument just about as much as any Ridley supporter out there. But there's a reason I don't identify myself as a huge supporter behind him, as I do feel there is one thing that makes me hesitate to say that Ridley will indeed be playable and why I do feel supporters should be a little more caution because I do feel there's one thing that could keep Ridley out despite everything. That said, I will say beforehand before anyone starts arguing heavily. I'd rather Ridley be playable, I'll be immensely happy for all the people who stood behind their wanted Newcomer despite all they've been through. But anyway, the one thing that might hold back Ridley is the fact that his body frame might be difficult to properly program him as a playable character regardless of his size. Being a boss for the character's entire existence doesn't mean anything when we've had Ganondorf or Bowser who have been Bosses in most of their games. But the thing is they had builds capable of making into fighters thanks to them being bipedal which everyone else in Melee was like. And while Ridley would not be the first quadruped, Ivysaur was a small Pokemon that had the whips to justify still "punching" or "kicking". But Ridley is big (Not saying he's "too big" like the annoying argument, but big nonetheless) and might be more difficult to program his animations without it looking somewhat awkward. Like it's hard to imagine Ridley pulling off the combos you see in competitive matches. I think making the non-Special moves would be the hardest part about designing Ridley. Special moves are easy, but with Ridley's rather different body frame from the other characters might make the other parts of the moveset difficult to not look somewhat awkward from Ridley to do. I'm sure most will accept Ridley no matter how he gets in, but I'm sure there also some who don't want Ridley to have animations that look too weird for him to be able to perform. Looking at what just the playable characters in Smash do, there's just things that they've done that sounds like it'd be difficult to have Ridley do some of the same things. And even if they program Ridley to be different from that being slow but really powerful in his attacks (In other words, making Ridley the new Bowser. After Bowser himself has gained some speed in Smash 4) , then he's not going to be a fun character to when playing against much faster characters. It's possible though that they could make him the opposite of Little Mac, where Ridley is terrible on the ground, but he's a beast in the Air. That might be something that could make him interesting enough. That said a character that's designed to be terrible at ground combat in Smash Bros. when that's the norm might be considered awkward or even bad character design. They'd have to really put huge emphasis on having Ridley being really, really good in the air. Maybe you know how they took out gliding for characters like Pit? What if they didn't completely erase gliding, but instead focused the mechanic on Ridley and even revamped it a bit so Ridley's capable of transitioning to the air smoothly when you're playing him well. Ridley's huge weakness would be if a character can manage to keep him grounded for most of the match, the complete opposite of what you want to do with Little Mac. I don't know, at this point I'm just speculating.

Anyway, my personal thoughts on Ridley is that I really do hope he's playable in some way. It would be so great to see what fans have been clamoring for at least a decade to see happen. I love seeing happy fans, I'd love anyone to have the same feelings I had about Sonic's confirmation for Brawl nearly 7 years ago. And Ridley is one of the few characters who if confirmed would not only make people have that excitement, but the hype would probably be the most hyping moment in all of Smash Bros. franchise history since Sonic's reveal. While I did express my doubts at the end there regarding of just how are they going to program his body frame into Smash Bros. where'd he'd be surrounded by fighters who work easily because they're usually just as bipedal as the other fighters are, when if Ridley tried to walk on two legs it'd be one of the most awkward things ever. I do lean towards wanting to see Ridley happen. I'm however one of those who won't be that upset if Ridley did not make it in. As I've lived without Ridley playable in Smash for three games already, I can handle another one without him. I will however be plenty sad for those who are desperate for him at this point should he not make it in. I do feel Ridley has merit for Smash and would gladly welcome him. If he made it in, he'd definitely make it in the Top 10 of the most meritable inclusions that I posted in the 3rd post in this thread. He'd be either one space below or above Little Mac (Either #6 or #8) should he make it in. Ridley's inclusion would also be huge enough I think to make Smash 4 the 2nd best Roster merit regardless of the inclusions I had at least a little bit of an issue with in Smash 4. Cause regardless of inclusions that I'm still confuzzled about a little bit like Greninja or Lucina, the combination of Little Mac, Ridley, and the trifecta (Sonic, Megaman, and Pac-Man) of 3rd Party characters would be just enough to tip it over the Original 12. Especially if Ness and Jigglypuff return to complete the Original 12 once more like I think it will. I just still don't know if it'd be enough to beat Brawl's roster selection overall. But yes, I think Ridley's inclusion alone would be that big for Smash 4's general roster. So for all Ridley fans both here and elsewhere, I'm rooting for you and hope that the good news arrives. I won't be as upset, and I'll understand if it doesn't happen at the same time though. So I suggest you be cautiously optimistic in the coming days. Ridley could be revealed as soon as the August Direct, or you might have to wait until the very end. In other words, the days prior to the Japanese Release in Mid-September when the full roster is finally revealed. The agony the Ridley fanbase has endured will either continue on for yet another Console generation or finally end once and for all with Ridley finally appearing on the roster screen.

ISSAC

I gotta be honest here, I really don't know too much about Golden Sun. I had to read a bit on the series to really understand what the series is about. And from what I gather it's an RPG series that began in the early 2000's on the Game Boy Advance. The most recent game being on Nintendo DS from 4 years ago. So I'm sorry to any Issac fans that would like me to go deeper into the subject but I'm just not sure how possible he is at this point. The only merit I can give him is that is indeed a popular request for Smash Bros. from an at least somewhat popular RPG series that could provide some degree of originality with a combination of the Psyenergy and the Djinns from the game. That said, Issac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl. As Little Mac showed, characters can get promoted from Assist Trophy to playable. At the same time though, Waluigi and Saki showed that characters can also return as Assist Trophies. Though Issac has not been shown, perhaps even suspiciously so. However you can't just say all Assist Trophies that were in Brawl that still hasn't been shown yet are instantly character possibilities just because they haven't been shown yet. Otherwise the more obscure characters like Barbara the Bat would be just as huge of a possibility or that Helririn thing that was just a temporary platform. And there's also the possibility that Issac is neither, not returning as an Assist Trophy nor as a playable character. I'm just wondering if it maybe a little too late to add Issac at this point. Like Issac missed his chance in Brawl. Little Mac got in because he's been a character who's been long requested because of his retro games on the NES and he even had a revival on the Wii. But while the most recent game was in 2010, and there's a few newcomers already in Smash 4 from years older. Isaac wasn't the main character of that game, it was his son. Meaning Issac's last game where he was a major factor was more then a decade ago. You could argue there's Ness and Marth, but they both got in immediately when there was room for them. Issac just got the honorable mention status in Brawl, and that unfortunately might cost him any chance of getting in Smash as a playable. And while I probably never really searched for the amount of support. Issac doesn't feel like he's as popular as much of the other potential newcomers. If I'm wrong about any of that, I apologize but even for say another potential character called Shulk I've seen plenty of support and Shulk's only been in one game. Plus while Shulk is another sword user, his sword is different from the many swords we already have in the game. While I don't think we hear anything's all that special about Issac's own most likely sword style. And while he does have Psyenergy or Djinn for more then just his sword. We already have a new character that still uses a sword but has more to them then that in Robin. I'm not saying Issac would be some sort of Robin clone, but he kinda provides the same exact type of thing that Robin's fighting style provides with the combination of sword and magic usage. So as of Robin's reveal, Issac feels less unique of an inclusion as he could be regardless of how different Issac's magic is from Robin's. Please forgive me if there's something I'm just missing because as I said, I'm not familiar much with Issac as a character nor the Golden Sun series besides what I could quickly search up on a Wiki. As for my personal thoughts on how I view Issac, eh he's an inclusion that I'll just be ok with if it happens. I don't entirely have any strong feelings whatsoever on Issac because again, I'm not too familiar with him. I don't see him as someone impactful enough to be in my Top 10 most meritable inclusions but he also wouldn't be too bad of an inclusion because he would provide a new IP to represent in the roster. So I'd say he's somewhere in the middle where he doesn't make either of the Top 10 lists because I don't think he's a a character that has great enough merit but also not any amount of terrible merit unless somehow he was a clone of somebody. I don't think Issac's chances are very high, I could easily see him returning as an Assist Trophy once again as I don't feel he just has the long-lasting demand like Little Mac has had. Or perhaps Issac could even be downgraded further as just a Trophy and his son from the Nintendo DS game takes his place as the Golden Sun Assist Trophy. He just feels like someone of not really huge priority now and his biggest chance of getting in the Smash series has passed in Brawl.

 

[SonicMario]

KING K. ROOL

If there's one character that can probably boast themselves as the 2nd most wanted besides Ridley. K. Rool is probably it, and he's the most logical choice for a 3rd Donkey Kong rep should there be one. With Bowser, Ganondorf, King Dedede, and Wolf in the series already everyone wants to see more villain/antagonist representation. Besides of course the obvious Ridley, K. Rool is what a lot of people ask for when asked what villain they'd like to see playable in Smash. And it'd be really cool because he is indeed the quite popular Main Antagonist of the classic Donkey Kong games. And would round out the DK cast very well. He'd probably be similar to Bowser in some ways being a large character but have his own moveset based around what he's done as a boss in the classic games like using his Blunderbuss. However there are a few things unfortunately in his way. King K. Rool has not made a major appearance in the recent Donkey Kong Country Return games, his last decent appearance was strangely in Super Mario Sluggers (At least that game disproves that K. Rool can't make it in because Rare might have copyright over him). And there's a character who might be in competition with King K. Rool if there's only one more spot who has: Dixie Kong which as unfortunate as it to see someone who'd likely be a Luigified clone of Diddy get in before the big bad of the classic games. Might be the more likely thing at this point, unless of course there's room for four DK characters. Then there's room for both easily. At the same time though, we did see that Kremlings were enemies in Smash Run. Could this be a clue as to his appearance in the game? Bowser gets to knock out his own troops in Melee's Adventure mode, Brawl's Subspace Emissary, and now Smash 4's Smash Run mode. Will King K. Rool get to do the same? Only time will tell. As for my personal thoughts on King K. Rool, I think he'd be a really good addition should he make it in. And the only new character from Donkey Kong I'd like to see. Nothing wrong with Dixie, but with Lucina's announcement. I don't want too many characters to be just be veterans slightly changed, and I feel Dixie would be another Lucina-esque inclusion. Though I'd be ok with it if DK had something like the Robin and Lucina trailer in that they include a character that's a clone of another but from the same franchise provides someone who does provide something new. But we have to know if DK will get four reps or not. As for if he'd reach any of he Top 10s. He'd be a great inclusion, however I'm not entirely sure he cracks the Top 10. He'd be close for sure. But I think K. Rool's and Ridley's popularity are just that far apart that Ridley's inclusion would crack my Top 10 but King K. Rool only gets close. I think he has a good chance, though the only hints we have is the Kremlings. And we don't know just how much that really assures K. Rool will be playable. He's another villain who'd be welcomed to Smash easily though. So I'll wish good luck on his supporters anyhow

DAISY

Oh… Daisy, Daisy, Daisy… Tread lightly with me Daisy fans. I'm going to try to be at least a little fair, but don't expect too much positivity from me. If you're already sick of any negative opinions regarding Daisy for Smash 4. I suggest you turn back now.

I know I criticized Rosalina a bit by having her in my Top 10 Least Meritable inclusion. But trust me in saying that Daisy being included now would make Rosalina's inclusion look like a Top 10 choice from the other list. Okay, Daisy did have one appearance outside of Spin-offs, which apparently for Rosalina it only took about two or three for it to be enough to make Smash. The problem? It was more then two decades ago and what's more, her role was literally no different then Peach in most Mario platformer games. Yes, the Spin-offs technically keep her relevant, but if the Mario Sports Spin-offs mattered at all to Smash. Don't you think a certain other character would have made it in as playable already but still remains as someone who just comes out for a short time wielding a Tennis racket? The only feasible way Daisy gets in Smash is to represent the Mario Spin-Offs from the Sports, Party, and Kart series. But there's a big problem with this. Waluigi, who's already confirmed not playable. Would be the smarter choice in almost every way. Let me list the reasons why:

1. Waluigi was literally created just for the Spin-offs (So far at least) so if the Spin-Off games got a representative, Waluigi would be a smarter choice because he's an original character that was in almost every Mario sports game since Mario Tennis, Almost every Mario Kart game since Mario Kart: Double Dash, and in every Mario Party since Mario Party 3. Oh BTW, Daisy being playable in Mario Kart 7 while Waluigi is absent means nothing. Mario Kart rosters have no bearing on Smash whatsoever.

2. Waluigi's body frame. Waluigi is tall and skinny, he's the direct opposite build of Wario who's short and fat. Meaning Waluigi would definitely have to have his own original moveset for his own because Wario's moveset just wouldn't fit with Waluigi's body. How is Daisy compared to Peach? Just slightly smaller. Meaning in all likelihood, Daisy would be at best a Semi-clone of Peach. While it is possible they can give Daisy her own moveset, I don't think Nintendo will spend all that much effort on Daisy of all characters when there are much more important characters to focus on including

3. Waluigi is far more popular. While I'm not saying he's not hated by a good margin of people. There are more people who'd love to see Waluigi's wacky personality show up to use his crotch chop as a taunt or victory pose. Even if some of this is slightly influenced by the popularity that the Brawl in the Family comic gave Waluigi. There's no question that there'd be more people happy with Waluigi's appearance as a playable character then there would be with Daisy. I think Daisy's "HI I'M DAISY" from Mario Kart Double Dash alone has turned many people against her. While Waluigi is remembered for the aforementioned crotch chop and his portrayal in the Brawl in the Family comic.

4. Sakurai seems to favor Waluigi a bit. While neither Daisy or Waluigi have been playable yet. I think there's a solid difference between how they show up elsewhere in the games. Daisy has been just a palette swap for Peach in both Melee and Brawl, while in Brawl and now Smash 4. Waluigi still has the honorable mention of being able to be summoned for a short time to whack fighters with a tennis racket and kick them into the ground. I think it's a much better honor of actually being summonable and attacking the playable characters then being nothing more then a palette swap for an existing character. Cause Waluigi actually gets the chance to hit characters, and while "Daisy" is actually playable in your hands. It's literally Peach colored to look like Daisy. Just adding salt to the wound to any fans who try to differentiate Peach and Daisy as much as possible. It's not the same as actually using Daisy. Luigi in Brawl also has a Waluigi-esque palette swap in his palette swaps, but again. The difference is Waluigi is capable of temporarily beating Luigi into the ground for taking his colors while Daisy cannot do a thing to Peach.

In short, if Waluigi isn't playable in Smash 4. Then Daisy should not either. There is literally nothing that would justify Daisy's inclusion over Waluigi at this point. Daisy's damsel-in-distress role in the first Super Mario Land is not enough.

And if that isn't enough. Even if Daisy is ahead of Waluigi, she still has other Mario contenders to deal with. I already expressed concern about Rosalina getting in over Toad. But imagine the sort of blasphemy and utter disgust if Daisy made it in over Toad. There's also Bowser Jr. And I'd say while Daisy would be better then Dr. Mario, there is a different alternate version of Mario that I would like to see in Smash before Daisy in Paper Mario cause the Paper Mario games (At least the first three anyway) are all good to excellent games that would be awesome to see get some representation. Daisy isn't the worst choice for a new Mario newcomer. But she's quite far away from being the best as well. The only real use for Daisy in Smash is if someone really just wanted all the Mario princesses playable for one reason or another. When it's just not really that necessary to have them all just because we have 2 out of the 3. People can talk about how they want a certain group whether they want Simon Belmont to be a character just to complete the Captain N cast, Sceptile to have the Starter types each have their own rep once again, or any other type of imaginary "character circles, squares, triangles, hexagons, whateverthefuckagon". But unless all the characters coincidentally have the merit, demand, and plausibility. Then it just isn't necessary.

Daisy is far from ready to be in Smash Bros. She needs more then she currently has, even a playable role in a sequel to Super Princess Peach or something would help. But until then, Daisy would be not be a good inclusion at all right now. Allow me to tell you just how much. I said that Rosalina is #7 in the least meritable inclusions, and Rosalina as of right now is a much greater inclusion then Daisy is of this point. I am willing to say, that if Daisy were to be announced as a Newcomer for Smash 4. She'd be #3 on the least meritable inclusions list. That's right. Daisy would be the worst Smash Bros. inclusion since Pichu and Dr. Mario. And even Roy and Young Link would be better inclusions to me because at least Young Link's thing has continued with some success with Toon Link, and Roy did help grow Fire Emblem's popularity with Marth and has a cult following going for him. And it would also be a bad enough of inclusion to stagnate Smash 4's Newcomer list as the 3rd Best Roster Merit out of the 4 games even if Ridley made it in along with Daisy. It'd still overall be better then Melee's roster. But even the Original 12 with how small it would be in comparison I would deem a better roster if they dared to include a character like Daisy over much more deserving and important characters. Smash 4's roster would be a laughing stock compared to Brawl's near-perfect roster. Even considering the next Smash, if nothing is changed until then. Daisy will feel like a desperate choice. There probably won't be a lot of Newcomers to choose from for Smash 5 unless we get a good amount of new IPs other then Splatoon by then. But I think even regarding character lists that are desperate additions, Daisy would not be even be near the top of that list either. As more emphasis on playable 3rd Party characters would be a better desperate choice because then you could include characters like Rayman or more Sonic characters other then Sonic himself. Nintendo having a better relationship with 3rd Parties as a result. Unless Daisy ever grows beyond just a Spin-Off counterpart to Peach, picking Daisy would be like taking directly from the bottom of the barrel for potential newcomers to include a character only a decent sized section of the Mario fanbase would be happy with and barely satisfy anyone else. I'm sorry if I offend any Daisy fans, but I am quite vehemently opposed to Daisy's inclusion in the newest Smash Bros. And it will take more then one Damsel-in-Distress role in one Game Boy game to convince me Daisy has earned the right amount of merit to be her own character in a Smash game.