Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games
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That's not a point. You have no proof of her being playable before other vets. You seeing signs of her before seeing signs of others doesn't mean she was made playable before them.Mario Party Σ said:
You clearly have many personal gripes here which lead to bias in your viewpoint and creates faulty logic that others understandably can't comprehend.
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Uh, she was playable before Toad was playable in Smash Bros. so that's one point (and don't pull me that "Toad is Peach's special move" BS because that can be easily accommodated), so what the hell do you mean by "you have no proof of her being playable before other vets"? And the Daisy fans are miffed that Rosalina got a playable role before her (yes, Daisy is queen spinoff, but I can understand the Daisy fans' frustrations).SuperBerb said:
The only thing you say is that "you have no proof" without backing up your claim and then accusing me that has no logic.
There are other people who agree with me though, so there's that.
She's a good fit, much better than in Mario Party 10 or Puzzles & Dragons. <_>Baby Luigi said:
In a lot of her appearances, Rosalina feels like she's there just because shut up. Not in Mario & Sonic, but ah well.
Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
I don't mind Rosalina being playable in this game, I just felt she didn't fit into Mario Party.
Mario Party Σ said:
So what if she was playable before Toad? So were Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings. Sakurai doesn't care about Toad because Toad doesn't fit the mold of the types of characters that are added to Smash Bros. That's not a point at all.
And Daisy never had a role in a main series Mario game. Super Mario Land was developed by a side team, so even it isn't main series, and that's the only platformer she's ever been in. That's why she's Queen Spinoff.
You provided two examples, one of which isn't a Mario game, and the other of which you pointed out yourself doesn't really work.
Just because others agree doesn't mean you have any more of a point. In fact, people said the same thing about Bowser Jr. back when he was new. They said the same thing about Yoshi and Wario too. It's more of a cycle at this point.
Every character can feel like that. There's virtually nothing different about Rosalina from anyone else in that regard except for things you make up yourself. Anything you say can easily be used for characters you think are fitting. For instance, I could say that having Bowser be playable in any spinoff is unfitting because he's the quintessential villain. He should not be working with Mario or ever be pairable with Mario under any circumstance and having him be playable feels like it's done just because.
Wario, Jr., hell, even other non-villains like Peach or Toad are characters I can make a case for (and in the case of Toad I actually do feel that way). Doesn't mean I'm saying anything that matters or is even worth bringing up.
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"Toad doesn't fit the mold of the types of characters that are added to Smash Bros."SuperBerb said:
What mold? Do Duck Hunt, Mr. Game & Watch, Kirby, Mario, Marth, Donkey Kong, and Bowser Jr. fit that mold too? Toad can fit on Olimar's skeleton nicely too, so what?
Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings are here for a long time and appeared in multiple major platformers, with Bowser Jr. playable in numerous spinoffs. He has gotten playable appearances shortly after Super Mario Sunshine (2002) has been released (major releases include Double Dash (2003), Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (2003), Mario Power Tennis (2004), Mario Superstar Baseball (2005), New Super Mario Bros. (2006), fairly consistent considering how frequent Mario games are released.
Rosalina has appeared a bit more sporadically starting with Super Mario Galaxy (2007), Mario Kart Wii (2008), but in two years we skip to minor cameo in Super Mario Galaxy 2 (2010), predictably playable again in Mario Kart 7 (2011), and then another two years later in Super Mario 3D World (2013) is when Rosalina becomes established. It looks gradual, but she missed out on several games including Super Sluggers, Fortune Street, Mario Party (to be fair, Bowser Jr. missed out on all of them until DS), Tennis Open, Mario & Sonic, New Super Mario Bros. games after Galaxy, and Mario Sports Mix.
That's true, but if you don't support Daisy being in major platformers because she is Queen Spinoff, you're going in a circular argument because you'll never grant her the opportunity to stop being coined as Queen Spinoff.SuperBerb said:
It's not a Mario game, but a celebration of Nintendo franchises. It's Nintendo's selects, so it's hot competition from the Mario series to earn a slot. To be represented from the Mario series is a respectable slot as Nintendo views it as notable enough. Seeing Rosalina before someone like Toad is a bit disheartening. As for Super Mario 3D World I didn't point how that "my argument doesn't work", it's a qualifier and relating to the sentiment of Daisy fans (and it's not just Super Mario 3D World; look at Puzzle Swap for heaven's sake, which shows Rosalina, Peach, Pauline, and Zelda, I believe; it's a middle finger to Daisy fans).SuperBerb said:
My point wasn't that "people agree with me, so I'm right", but rather some people know my kind of rationale, and they're not exactly stupid either, so I assume it's fairly cognent. It does sound like a variety of appeal to popularity, but I don't want to sound like I'm exactly alone here.SuperBerb said:
Rosalina is the only one that strikes me as that in particular. I looked at the Mario timeline, and there's no doubting that Rosalina has appeared more sporadically than, say, Bowser Jr. after her debut until appearing suddenly in a lot of games.SuperBerb said:
I don't consider villain roles a factor, though. I view how much of a role they played in the Mario series. Rosalina appeared as a major supporting protagonist, got a major playable appearance in Mario Kart Wii, and then, she kind of simmered away for a bit, for nearly four years, to the point where some fans (including me) were wondering where she went. Then, at 2013, Nintendo went full-on.
Toad isn't random, though, not at this point anymore. He could've been at the advent of Super Mario Kart, but he's way past that, and he deserves a playable slot in most Mario games (a Toad character has been playable in a major Mario game for quite a while now). So yeah, Toad (or his species) is a notable character.
Anyway, I don't want to drag on this argument.
I agree, I've been wanting her as a host. I just think a host or at least a Donkey Kong space replacement. It made more sense back then, but nowadays, anything goes for her.Lumastar said:
Watch her be playable in the next Mario Strikers game. :/ I've actually suggested that a few years ago, and people were like, "hell no". It's different today.
TinTinfinite
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I understand why these Mario games that features Rosalina as a playable character sells more copies.
Because Nintendo will be like
The image above is just my impression.
I felt that most of the comments that was related on a Mario spin-off game, even before it was released, are like "Playable Rosalina=DAY ONE BUY!". That happened to me once (eg. Mario Party 10).
Just imagine 2020, Nintendo's new target audience will be the [insert Nintendo CHARACTER here] fanbase.
Because Nintendo will be like
The image above is just my impression.
I felt that most of the comments that was related on a Mario spin-off game, even before it was released, are like "Playable Rosalina=DAY ONE BUY!". That happened to me once (eg. Mario Party 10).
Just imagine 2020, Nintendo's new target audience will be the [insert Nintendo CHARACTER here] fanbase.
Revin
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personally, i welcome our new rosalina overlord 
TinTinfinite
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I call November 13, 2013 THE ROSALINA REVOLUTION!
Rosalina fans are already rejoicing thus [Wario, Yoshi, Daisy, Waluigi, RPG characters] fans declare war against them.
Rosalina fans are already rejoicing thus [Wario, Yoshi, Daisy, Waluigi, RPG characters] fans declare war against them.
2016; year of Rosalina.
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Mario Party Σ said:
Personally, I don't think Toad is right for Smash Bros. Unlike Mario spin-off titles where characters don't need to have much substance other than the ability to participate in a variety of stupid minigames and play SPORTS, there really isn't anything unique about Toad as a character that would carry over well to a game like Smash Bros. Most of the fan-made movesets I've seen for Toad usually give him a gimmick which isn't directly associated with Toad himself because there isn't much to work with.
Captain Toad is a maybe, but from any perspective, all Toads are rather bland as characters imo. It's not about notability and so-called 'deservedness', it's about uniqueness i.e. what they bring to the table as a character. i swear sakurai mentioned this in an interview somewhere but I really can't be bothered to go searching for it lol
That doesn't mean Toad's not stupidly adorable (which is why i like him so much <3) but in all honesty galaxy-controlling space god is a much better shtick than bland mushroom-head
ha i actually found something from the SM3DW iwata asks if anyone caresGBAToad said:
Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
I honestly could see the Year of Rosalina happening.
Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
Wow, this game's announcement was so boring we ended up talking about something else.
Revin
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personally i like that they're introducing new characters but i probably won't buy it because theres probably only gonna be a select few minigames that i'd play, and thats not worth $60 for
TinTinfinite
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heh heh. teaserGBAToad said:lolThreek said:
Mario Party Σ said:
You're kidding, right?
Toad's a generic species. Look at the cast of Smash Bros. The only generic species type characters are either things like Pokemon or Yoshi where the entire basis of the franchise is a generic species. Sakurai clearly does not want a generic species that only exists to take up roles that Nintendo is too lazy to create newer characters for. Toads handle things like item shops or being a generic tutorial guide or whatever because they're like any old NPC in RPG games except with one single design for every role. That's the bulk of Toad's existence. Everything he does can very easily be applied to Mario/Luigi/Peach as well, and with Rosalina's appearance in 3D World, she could do anything Toad can do too.
The dog for Duck Hunt is a specific dog every time. Marth is a specific character. Olimar is a specific character. DK is a specific character. Jr. is a specific character. Toad? Prove to me that the Toad in SMB2 is the same as the one in NSMB Wii, or that they're the same as the one from Wario's Woods, and that all of those are the same guy from 3D World.
Problem is that you really can't. There's more proof to the contrary if anything.
Yeah, and? The Koopalings are no different from her but you neglected to mention them, very conveniently so I might add. They were in, what, SMB3, SMW, and one or two spinoffs at the time? Then they disappeared for about a decade, returning in Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga with almost no real role whatsoever. Then they take yet another long absence until over half a decade later when they return for three NSMB games. They existed for longer than Rosalina but proportionally they probably had less appearances than she did. The most you can give them is seniority and Smash does not care about that in the slightest when characters made even later than Rosalina like Shulk, Greninja, Wii Fit Trainer, Lucina, Dark Pit, and Robin are all in the game.
Just because I don't support it doesn't mean I'm opposed to it. That said, I wouldn't mind, but what can we really do if the devs don't really seem to even be aware of her existence? Better question is what would they even do? They'd have to make up abilities for her or make up a reason for why she's even in the game.
"Slots" aren't real. Sakurai has stated time and time again that characters who get in do so because he felt they contributed something. He adds characters because he feels they provide something to Smash that no one else can provide. Having some notoriety or popularity helps of course, as that gives more obvious choices to look at, but there's a very obvious reason why he always discusses the gameplay aspects of characters when talking about them.
Toad offers very little. Rosalina however? Look at her moveset. There is not a single other character who can effectively display the abilities she displays with the puppeteering aspect of Luma and specific moves like Launch Star or Gravitational Pull as she does.
And Daisy fans aren't getting treated any differently from how they've always been treated. She's always been queen spinoff, she's still queen spinoff.
It doesn't really matter either way. People build their mentalities off of whatever they've heard or their own thought processes, and often times this can be the result of misinformation.
Toad support in general and people's misbelief that he's being scrapped in favor of Rosalina is one example of that. Toad isn't being scrapped in favor of anyone. He really can't be when he's not even a blip on the radar.
This is not what I was getting at all. My point was that your mentality of Rosalina not fitting doesn't matter as much as my mentality of Toad not fitting. I don't think Toad fits because if he could do anything of value, then Mario wouldn't be needed for any games. Him being playable defeats the point. He shouldn't be playable as far as I'm concerned. I don't even try to gripe about it though because I've just accepted that it's better for Nintendo to let him have those moments when they see fit. The villain bit had nothing to do with your opinion and everything to do with how someone could use your mentality for their own beliefs, even if those beliefs contradict your own. As for why Rosalina reappeared, I'll cover that with a response to this quote:
GBAToad said:
He also wanted Rosalina in because she has that fandom built from Galaxy and because she added to the gameplay with the spin jump mechanic fitting her. Should've bolded the former and added in the latter, which I recall them discussing later on in the interview.
The interview also highlights a major issue, that being Miyamoto. Ever wonder why Rosalina was kept out of games? Ever wonder why they never even bothered to do anything with Daisy? It's because Miyamoto was being overprotective of his own creation over the creations of others.
Stargazing
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if rosie ends up being confirmed i wonder how cool her various outfits will beThreek said:
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SuperBerb, I said explicitly that I don't want to drag this argument. To elaborate, we're going off topic about Rosalina and the mods want us back on topic, so cut it out. As much as I like to refute your argument, which already going on a tangent about Toad's "deserving playability" and misinterpreting my argument as a "slots" argument, it ain't gonna happen.
On topic
I wouldn't mind Rosalina in the Olympics. She was overdue in that series, but better late than never, I guess.
I like Mr. bland mushroom head rather than space peach tho. ;_; Well, once the big names are out of the way, that's where they need unique character, but something feels off when we have 4 out of 5 characters from the Super Mario 3D World cast playable. :/ I really want Toad, though, he's so friggin cute. He'll be always unique in my eyes. :DGBAToad said:
So Rosalina wasn't their first choice, and I'd say she's semi-regular at the time.
On topic
I wouldn't mind Rosalina in the Olympics. She was overdue in that series, but better late than never, I guess.
yoshiking14x
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I have a feeling that Toad will go Turbo.SuperBerb said:
Mario Party Σ said:
Nobody outright told us to stop, and this is a legitimate discussion.
Fine. There really isn't any room for a counterargument anyhow. If it makes you feel better to imagine that there is, then so be it. You did use the word "slot" though, and I've already specified that there's nothing about "deserving" playability. This is so typical of Toad fans that I'm not really even surprised by it anyways.
Going on topic, almost nobody seems to even play this subseries of games anymore so I'm wondering why people care so much about who's playable in it and who isn't.
yoshiking14x said:
Now that's something I'd pay to see.