Do you think the Mario franchise has "lost its magic"?

Ryu

Ryu

Koopa Troopa
During the mid-Wii era, Super Mario was probably at its peak. It could appeal to everyone - every game was simple enough for most casual gamers to get into. Meanwhile, the even more casual "non-gamers" had NSMB and Mario Kart, with barely any plot and very simple gameplay for some quick fun, just like Wii Sports. The more discerning gamers had Galaxy and the RPGs, full of memorable characters, locations and gimmicks to make them well-remembered classics.

And guess what? The more casual the Mario game, the more copies it sold. With that in mind, it feels like every Mario game - most obviously the NSMB sequels but also the 3D platformers, sports games and current RPG's - is meant to be inoffensive to the 3-year-olds and senior citizens that were won over by the Wii, at the expense of the more serious gamers. Meanwhile, Pokemon is "evolving" to resemble what Mario resembled during the mid-Wii era, with tons of different games and main game elements to appeal to all sorts of audiences.

Since Mario is Nintendo's mascot and supposed to represent its universal appeal, this is a bad direction to take his series in IMO. Mario needs to be "cool" again. More creative titles like Dream Team and Super Mario Maker are a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure if it'll stick.
 
The only series that I would say lost its luster is the Mario Sports titles.

Not just because they were "better" during the GameCube/Wii era, but also because there were more sports to choose from.

What happened to baseball and soccer? And would it kill them to try some others? How about Mario Football (the real kind)?
 
Magikrazy said:
The only series that I would say lost its luster is the Mario Sports titles.

Not just because they were "better" during the GameCube/Wii era, but also because there were more sports to choose from.

What happened to baseball and soccer? And would it kill them to try some others? How about Mario Football (the real kind)?
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It's a STONE, Luigi! You didn't make it!

...That aside, what about the RPG's? Sticker Star is the most infamous example, and Paper Jam feels like a teeth-clenched compromise between its obligation to be a "generic Mario game" and Alphadream's efforts to make it as unique as the other M&L games.
 
Well yeah, the last two Paper Mario titles weren't great, but whatever. Sticker Star showed me they won't repeat Super Paper Mario's mistakes again, and from what I've seen of Paper Jam, I doubt they'll repeat Sticker Star's mistakes again.

Mario & Luigi has always been consistently good from what I've seen, so there's no reason to think that's going away any time soon.
 
The more discerning gamers
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loooooool

i don't know what's more amusing

-Using the words "casual" and "hardcore" in relation to Mario. It's fucking Mario.

-The implication Mario was ever "cool" since the end of the NES. I mean, people remember the first Sonic's marketing campaign was all about how ~totally lame and kiddie~ Super Mario World was in comparison, right?
 
When World 2 stopped being anything other than desert-themed.
 
To an extent, yes. And honestly? I blame Miyamoto. The old man is getting in the way of the franchise and it adding new characters and content.

In fact, let me say this for Nintendo's staff; people do not buy games purely based on 'gameplay'. They care about new content. New characters, new locations, new villains, new items, new plot twists, etc. Expecting people to buy samey games with the same themes and ideas over and over based on 'gameplay' as some abstract ideal is like expecting people to watch a movie because the acting or camera work is good. People would rather something with interesting ideas that expands the 'universe' of the series to something which is technically 'flawless'.

The Mario series will only get its magic back when the old guard moves onto new things and a new team with more free reign to do what they want comes in.
 
CM30 said:
In fact, let me say this for Nintendo's staff; people do not buy games purely based on 'gameplay'. They care about new content. New characters, new locations, new villains, new items, new plot twists, etc. Expecting people to buy samey games with the same themes and ideas over and over based on 'gameplay' as some abstract ideal is like expecting people to watch a movie because the acting or camera work is good. People would rather something with interesting ideas that expands the 'universe' of the series to something which is technically 'flawless'.

The Mario series will only get its magic back when the old guard moves onto new things and a new team with more free reign to do what they want comes in.
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New content, new locations, new items are all arguably part of "gameplay".

And does Mario seriously need plot twists? And are you seriously comparing video games to movies? They're two totally different genres. One of them has to have an engaging story, the other is an interactive entertainment that keeps people attentive by making their entertainment actually fun to take in.

Those interesting ideas come form in ways of how to make games new, intuitive, and challenging, not adding a story to things that don't necessarily need a story. Mario seriously has more of a problem with stagnation than if their games are catered more to casual or more hardcore audiences.
 
Ryu said:
Meanwhile, Pokemon is "evolving" to resemble what Mario resembled during the mid-Wii era, with tons of different games and main game elements to appeal to all sorts of audiences.
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Isn't that a problem with Pokemon?

Pokemon's mechanics are such a mess and there are a ton of one-off gimmicks, and some were actually good, but the fact remains: there are a ton of one-off gimmicks to make people get connected to Pokemon but there are a ton of crap that gives Pokemon a "competitive" vibe for teh serious players. The in-game people are like "go with your favorites" while that'll work in-game, I think Pokemon has a strong PvP player base and once you get serious in that, it's all overwhelming and short of hacking, you'll probably spent hours and hours whipping up Pokemon with 31 IVs in every stat, save for the Hidden Powers or something. Not only that, but they recklessly keep piling OP Pokemon upon OP Pokemon and making new game mechanics such as Mega Evolutions which hardly balance the game. Its battle system is the one getting stale, even staler than Mario, and I'm not the only one who complains it's a slog to go through thanks to how lifeless these battles are, how long they take, no auto-button, random encounters, and it's been repeating for years how you're some minor with a Fire/Water/Grass (that you may abandon) because a tree-based professor gave you one, and you face rodents, other small mammals, and little birds as your first creatures and you face several gym leaders and you beat the Elite Four while beating your rival and facing off against the Elite Four. It gets tiresome with generation after generation. If Pokemon had the rich diversity of great spinoffs (I emphasize "great") that Mario has, their Mario Kart, Mario Strikers, Mario Party (before 9), Mario Power Tennis, and DDR: Mario Mix equivalents, it wouldn't be so bad, but they don't; they have only a few interesting spinoffs that isn't a puzzle game such as Super Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Pokemon Conquest, Pokemon Ranger, Pokken, although those are the only one at the top of my head; most of the rest of the spinoffs are puzzle games or complete crap like Pokemon Ranch, Pokemon Shuffle, Pokemon Microtransaction Game, etc.

tl;dr I wouldn't compare Pokemon as favorably and I think it's stagnating even more than Mario although Super Mystery Dungeon is good, and a few other spinoffs have potential.

CM30 said:
In fact, let me say this for Nintendo's staff; people do not buy games purely based on 'gameplay'. They care about new content. New characters, new locations, new villains, new items, new plot twists, etc. Expecting people to buy samey games with the same themes and ideas over and over based on 'gameplay' as some abstract ideal is like expecting people to watch a movie because the acting or camera work is good. People would rather something with interesting ideas that expands the 'universe' of the series to something which is technically 'flawless'.

The Mario series will only get its magic back when the old guard moves onto new things and a new team with more free reign to do what they want comes in.
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That's exactly what New Super Mario Bros. 2, Paper Jam, etc. did, adding "new content" maybe except the "new villain" thing, but there is hardly any new villain other than Bowser, Donkey Kong, or Wario, at least inside the Mario series. People still think it's stagnating. What they want is NEW gameplay and new situations maybe new environments like Super Mario Micro Land or Super Mario Everyone Got Turned Into Cheese. Also, what would you think if Captain Syrup was suddenly introduced to the Mario series as a villain? She's technically not "new" but it would still be more interesting than making up a new one. I think we have a rich, underused cast and Nintendo should take advantage of that. Also, make Mario talk, flesh out his personality more. Charles Martinet and Fortune Street already showed what a great guy Mario can be.

Hey, CM30, I don't recall exactly, but I remember it was the older members of the development team that wanted to do new things while the younger members wanted it to remain the same, so that's pretty surprising.
 
CM30 said:
To an extent, yes. And honestly? I blame Miyamoto. The old man is getting in the way of the franchise and it adding new characters and content.
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FYI Miyamoto has very little to do with Mario games these days and hasn't for quite sometime.
 
Not really. The franchise is exactly the same to me, as it was 7 years ago. We've had some crappy games, but I overlook them for the good games. Mainstream considered, all the games are positive in my book.
 
My answer is never consistent. I feel that Mario games are magical if:

1. They are different enough from each other so I can consider them memorable. I rarely care about games that are almost the same.

2. If the game has cutscenes, I admire it.

3. If the characters are actually acting like characters rather than mindless figures. I expect the selected characters from the roster to be unique from each other to be enjoyable. I always expect the characters to behave different towards the same situation.

4. If something long gone returns.

For some reason I lost interest in Mario Tennis games as I end up confusing them with each other. Not even the consoles or the altered character rosters can give it a "magic feel".
 
yoshiking14x said:
My answer is never consistent. I feel that Mario games are magical if:

1. They are different enough from each other so I can consider them memorable. I rarely care about games that are almost the same.

2. If the game has cutscenes, I admire it.

3. If the characters are actually acting like characters rather than mindless figures. I expect the selected characters from the roster to be unique from each other to be enjoyable. I always expect the characters to behave different towards the same situation.

4. If something long gone returns.

For some reason I lost interest in Mario Tennis games as I end up confusing them with each other. Not even the consoles or the altered character rosters can give it a "magic feel".
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Pretty much. Galaxy 1 and Dream Team meet most of those points and are my two favorite Mario games.
 
"something long gone returns"

What, like falling damage? Enemies you can't stomp? Mario being a dick to gorillas?
 
yes

every game after galaxy falls somewhere between rehash and retrash :rolleyes:
 
Magikrazy said:
"something long gone returns"

What, like falling damage? Enemies you can't stomp? Mario being a dick to gorillas?
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Long Lost Mario Creatures and Items is what I was supposed to put in the first place.
 
No.

Mario is like many other franchises i love, it goes up and down and up and down.

It hasnt lost any magic to me, infact ive found myself to be rather impressed with some titles in recent years as 3d world looks amazing, mk7 was a lot of fun, and paper jam is really grabbing my attention.

Its the same with a lot of titles of my favorite franchises really, if any thing i think the mario series has come a long way, but i still think its amazing regardless.
 
I doubt it has lost its charm. I mean, Mario Kart 8 and SMM were a big success. But I do think that they have to improve some spin-off games. I'd love to see another Strikers game, but instead we got a incredibly basic Mario Tennis game (in terms of modes, characters, etc.)
 
I'd forgive the lack of Strikers if the Mario Tennis game was a respectable successor to Mario Power Tennis. But it isn't. If Federation Force, made by the same developers of Strikers, is good, I'll also forgive the lack of Strikers.
 
Presto said:
I doubt it has lost its charm. I mean, Mario Kart 8 and SMM were a big success. But I do think that they have to improve some spin-off games. I'd love to see another Strikers game, but instead we got a incredibly basic Mario Tennis game (in terms of modes, characters, etc.)
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I agree, the Strikers games should see more love. Since Ultra Smash was a disaster, maybe Nintendo will take advantage of this and focus on another sports game, 'hint, 'hint'.
 
Iggy Waffles said:
Presto said:
I doubt it has lost its charm. I mean, Mario Kart 8 and SMM were a big success. But I do think that they have to improve some spin-off games. I'd love to see another Strikers game, but instead we got a incredibly basic Mario Tennis game (in terms of modes, characters, etc.)
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I agree, the Strikers games should see more love. Since Ultra Smash was a disaster, maybe Nintendo will take advantage of this and focus on another sports game, 'hint, 'hint'.
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Yes, but Next Level Games is working on Metroid Prime: Federation Force if you're thinking about Mario Strikers or Mario Spikers (which would've been a new Mario sports game focused on volleyball and wrestling; now that would've been original...). Namco could be working on another Mario Baseball, Square Enix could be working on another Mario Sports Mix, or some other company can be working on a totally new Mario sport.
 
I feel like Nintendo is destroying the spin off by no reason at all , while giving priority to simple games that are linear like the ''New'' series.

I'm not worried about main games , since 3DWorld was amazing , not to the levels of Galaxy , but amazing regardless.

Mario Kart is so far the only spin off that remains with quality , even if people talk trash about MK8 ; You want BAD? Go to Mario Party and Now Mario Tennis , that is truly disappointing.

Tho , this is the curse of the Wii U , as the 3DS games are for the most part superior such as Mario Tennis Open and Mario Golf , that surprisinly got a very good game.

I hope the NX brings a better Mario Line up though , since the Wii U's is by faar the trashiest in a while ; N64 To GCN To Wii To 3DS where mostly right , specially the GCN And Wii ; The Wii U makes me lose hope however.
 
Don't mention that some spin-offs simply don't exist on Wii U, such as Golf, Mario Baseball, Mario Strikers, Mario Sports Mix, etc. Where the hell are those games? Forget another ----ing Mario platformer on a platform littered with platformers, I'd like more multiplayer Mario spin-offs.
 
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