Smash Bros. Character Merit (Ultimate Edition)
- Thread starter SonicMario
- Start date
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #127
Now that we're moving on to another pass. I thought I'd give an update on the prospects of characters I've covered in the past. I'm not going to cover every name I've done in the past. Just ones that have some sort of update after we have some data after having seen the end of the first past.
BESTHESDA REP (Dragonborn, Doomguy, etc.)
Probably still on the Table though a recent interview has put some doubt on the prospects for Doomguy in particular. Still, at the very least we can't rule out something like Skyrim for example being one of these 6.
CRASH BANDICOOT
A very strong possibility. Crash is in a full rebirth as the success of the N. Sane Trilogy and CTR Nitro Fueled has brought Crash back into his best years since the PS1 era. And given Nintendo has sort of crossover with Crash before via Skylanders, Crash's Smash Bros. prospects could barely be any higher. In fact… if a certain rumor going on right now turns out true…
SORA
There actually is somewhat of an update on Sora in Smash stuff. A recent interview with Imran (A very noted insider) has mentioned that Nintendo has tried contacting Disney for Sora as far back as Smash 4 DLC and/or Smash Ultimate's base roster. However it seems they were given a No at the time. Now that can be seen either one of two ways, either that puts severe doubt on Sora ever coming to Smash if they stonewall even to now. Or perhaps if Sora is in Pass 2, a change of mind has come since then. Though I wonder something, was Cloud perhaps a back-up plan after Sora had fallen through given both were Square Enix related characters? Either way, Sora still has Disney as his biggest obstacle. If Sakurai has found a way in between the end of Pass 1 and now, I'm certain we'll see Sora at either of the two E3's that will pass before it's all over.
ARLE NADJA
If Sega gets yet another character in this pass, she'll probably be a strong possibility. Thought I can't help but think she could end up being a Mii costume given any sort of characters can appear in the showcases whether they're related to the character or not. Maybe at the very least she'll come with a remixed Puyo song?
RAYMAN
I feel the Rabbids and the Altair costume kinda gives a big oof in Rayman's chances to get upgraded from the Spirit. As those would of been perfect if he is ever planned to be a character. It's odd with how co-operative Ubisoft is with this game but just isn't allowed a playable character.
WALUIGI
I'm still among the believers that he's the only current Assist Trophy that has a shot of being upgraded within the same game (Barring if Echo DLC ever becomes a thing. I see you, Shadow). Again, the coverage of Waluigi was BIG in the first initial information for Ultimate. Remember how Reggie made mention of it shortly after and mainstream media even covering it at points. You can't deny that it's something Nintendo didn't pay attention to and probably nudge Sakurai about at some point. People may discount Waluigi as a meme and/or giving what the shitposters on Twitter wanted. But at this point, Waluigi is one of those characters that Nintendo knows could provide a wild reaction and probably be damn profitable. If we get a 1st party that isn't a promotional character like Byleth was, I feel like Waluigi got the push at just the right time to possibly be his cheating self and somehow get in despite being an AT to at least be a possibility. I'm not going to say Waluigi is certain by any stretch, but I'm keeping an open mind here.
REX
I'm not sure how to feel about Rex. It feels like at one point Sakurai really wanted him at one point but the Fighter's Pass development just came too late. Could he have a shot for this new pass now? Maybe, but the fact Byleth got in first despite being an even newer game then Xenoblade 2 has to feel like it hurts. I'll say Rex is a possibility, but Byleth will always come to mind as a bit of an OOF for Rex's shots.
GENO
Now I said before that I may be more surprised then not that Geno makes it. But the way Mii Costumes have appeared and the way the Smash 4 Mii Costumes have slowly returned over time. May have put a sour note on this. I'm certain we will get some sort of Geno content announced in the future. But it's either a fully playable Geno as one of the fighters in the pass, or probably a premium Mii costume like Sans and Cuphead that might cover the Mii head more and comes with a remix of Beware the Forest's Mushroom. Now that any company's Mii Fighers can show up for any fighter, if each following character isn't Geno. There will always be that sense of dread for Geno fans that the costume comes up in the presentation for the next character. We'll know Nintendo is cruel if they save the Geno costume… for anytime next year. If Geno is still a costume, I'm sure most Geno fans would rather have the band-aid ripped off now with the first character. 2-3 Mii costumes from Smash 4 have returned in every pack, so Geno fans are going to be walking on thin ice for a while.
STEVE
If Microsoft opts for another character after they already gave away Banjo, they might go with Minecraft coming in the 6. Though I wonder if perhaps they'd rather salivate at the chance to place a certain famous armored FPS hero under their ownership that's always been seen as a pipe dream for Smash for shock factor at E3. And move Steve more towards the premium Mii costume slot. Could easily see them have a block head and use the diamond sword over a mii sword fighter's sword
BESTHESDA REP (Dragonborn, Doomguy, etc.)
Probably still on the Table though a recent interview has put some doubt on the prospects for Doomguy in particular. Still, at the very least we can't rule out something like Skyrim for example being one of these 6.
CRASH BANDICOOT
A very strong possibility. Crash is in a full rebirth as the success of the N. Sane Trilogy and CTR Nitro Fueled has brought Crash back into his best years since the PS1 era. And given Nintendo has sort of crossover with Crash before via Skylanders, Crash's Smash Bros. prospects could barely be any higher. In fact… if a certain rumor going on right now turns out true…
…Supposedly Crash may even be our first character of the 2nd pass. A supposed Twitter leaker by the name of MandyCanNot who might of gotten Byleth being the last fighter of the first pass as well as saying there is no reveal at the Game Awards has not only just claimed Crash is #6 once. But doubled down on it multiple times. Pretty much literally staking their reputation on the Bandicoot being next. I don't want to get too ahead of myself, especially as someone who dearly wants Crash myself. But even if it's not true, then we just get someone to be mad about briefly before Crash still has a decent chance at some of the other spots in the pass. There is some concerns about Mandy, like before they changed it the location said "Vergeben Sucks" which would indicate some sort of troll behavior and there's always the possibility that they put their twitter private in October made a few predictions and deleted all the ones that were wrong. Granted, not sure that explains knowing the Game Awards not having the reveal when that's what most expected. And even going back to Byleth. You would think all of the predictions were going to point towards a 3rd party, still possibly they had a few 1st party characters as a just in case measure but it's still rather bold at that point.
Though hypothetically let's say Crash is indeed next. How long do we wait? Will they go a Cloud route and have him announced at the end of a random direct whether that's this month, March, or April?. Or is Crash big enough to save for E3 should they make us wait that long to see the first character. Either way, Crash probably has more eyes on them then any other character right now. Time will tell if the Smash party has been Crashed.
Though hypothetically let's say Crash is indeed next. How long do we wait? Will they go a Cloud route and have him announced at the end of a random direct whether that's this month, March, or April?. Or is Crash big enough to save for E3 should they make us wait that long to see the first character. Either way, Crash probably has more eyes on them then any other character right now. Time will tell if the Smash party has been Crashed.
SORA
There actually is somewhat of an update on Sora in Smash stuff. A recent interview with Imran (A very noted insider) has mentioned that Nintendo has tried contacting Disney for Sora as far back as Smash 4 DLC and/or Smash Ultimate's base roster. However it seems they were given a No at the time. Now that can be seen either one of two ways, either that puts severe doubt on Sora ever coming to Smash if they stonewall even to now. Or perhaps if Sora is in Pass 2, a change of mind has come since then. Though I wonder something, was Cloud perhaps a back-up plan after Sora had fallen through given both were Square Enix related characters? Either way, Sora still has Disney as his biggest obstacle. If Sakurai has found a way in between the end of Pass 1 and now, I'm certain we'll see Sora at either of the two E3's that will pass before it's all over.
ARLE NADJA
If Sega gets yet another character in this pass, she'll probably be a strong possibility. Thought I can't help but think she could end up being a Mii costume given any sort of characters can appear in the showcases whether they're related to the character or not. Maybe at the very least she'll come with a remixed Puyo song?
RAYMAN
I feel the Rabbids and the Altair costume kinda gives a big oof in Rayman's chances to get upgraded from the Spirit. As those would of been perfect if he is ever planned to be a character. It's odd with how co-operative Ubisoft is with this game but just isn't allowed a playable character.
WALUIGI
I'm still among the believers that he's the only current Assist Trophy that has a shot of being upgraded within the same game (Barring if Echo DLC ever becomes a thing. I see you, Shadow). Again, the coverage of Waluigi was BIG in the first initial information for Ultimate. Remember how Reggie made mention of it shortly after and mainstream media even covering it at points. You can't deny that it's something Nintendo didn't pay attention to and probably nudge Sakurai about at some point. People may discount Waluigi as a meme and/or giving what the shitposters on Twitter wanted. But at this point, Waluigi is one of those characters that Nintendo knows could provide a wild reaction and probably be damn profitable. If we get a 1st party that isn't a promotional character like Byleth was, I feel like Waluigi got the push at just the right time to possibly be his cheating self and somehow get in despite being an AT to at least be a possibility. I'm not going to say Waluigi is certain by any stretch, but I'm keeping an open mind here.
REX
I'm not sure how to feel about Rex. It feels like at one point Sakurai really wanted him at one point but the Fighter's Pass development just came too late. Could he have a shot for this new pass now? Maybe, but the fact Byleth got in first despite being an even newer game then Xenoblade 2 has to feel like it hurts. I'll say Rex is a possibility, but Byleth will always come to mind as a bit of an OOF for Rex's shots.
GENO
Now I said before that I may be more surprised then not that Geno makes it. But the way Mii Costumes have appeared and the way the Smash 4 Mii Costumes have slowly returned over time. May have put a sour note on this. I'm certain we will get some sort of Geno content announced in the future. But it's either a fully playable Geno as one of the fighters in the pass, or probably a premium Mii costume like Sans and Cuphead that might cover the Mii head more and comes with a remix of Beware the Forest's Mushroom. Now that any company's Mii Fighers can show up for any fighter, if each following character isn't Geno. There will always be that sense of dread for Geno fans that the costume comes up in the presentation for the next character. We'll know Nintendo is cruel if they save the Geno costume… for anytime next year. If Geno is still a costume, I'm sure most Geno fans would rather have the band-aid ripped off now with the first character. 2-3 Mii costumes from Smash 4 have returned in every pack, so Geno fans are going to be walking on thin ice for a while.
STEVE
If Microsoft opts for another character after they already gave away Banjo, they might go with Minecraft coming in the 6. Though I wonder if perhaps they'd rather salivate at the chance to place a certain famous armored FPS hero under their ownership that's always been seen as a pipe dream for Smash for shock factor at E3. And move Steve more towards the premium Mii costume slot. Could easily see them have a block head and use the diamond sword over a mii sword fighter's sword
- Pronouns
- He/him
Re: Smash Bros Character Merit. ( Switch Edition )
I know I'm a little late to this, but, how about Garchomp?
I know I'm a little late to this, but, how about Garchomp?
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #129
Alright, things have settled down a bit when I've been Animal Cross-ing and there's been time to think over the mini direct at the end of last month. So I'll get the one request for merit/chance rating and then go cover something about what we got (Even if we didn't get a specific character for the first time, only the series)
GARCHOMP
My Level of Want
Garchomp seems to be one of the more standout popular pokemon of Generation IV. Though this is when I have to remind you all that I'm one of those ol' fogies regarding Pokemon that could probably tell you almost anything about the first 2 generations of Pokemon by heart but then knowledge starts to drop off halfway or anytime after the 3rd generation of Pokemon. So hypothetically if Garchomp did make it, it'd really get nothing more then a shrug of "Ok, another pokemon. That's cool". Garchomp certainly looks like he has an appealing cool design that could fit in Smash easily. That said, the chance ranking probably isn't going to care because...
Estimated Chance
As with any Pokemon that didn't make it into Smash when their generation was the new hot thing, it's very doubtful to see happen unless somehow a Pokemon was particularly so popular that they're demanded in the game. You basically have to reach the outcry for Mewtwo in Smash 4 prior to DLC being announced. And part of what helped him was he was previously playable in Melee. It's even harder to suggest an outright old Pokemon that was never previously playable in Smash from making it in. So in some ways you somehow have to push a pokemon EVEN HARDER then those who wanted Mewtwo to return. And that's not an easy task. Another roadblock is we already have had a Gen 4 Pokemon in Lucario, because if I were to think a Pokemon from an old generation got in it's because their generation never got a Rep. Like if they weren't Pokeball'd Gardevoir and Zoroark would be up there as possibilities. But as is, if a Pokemon is included in this 2nd fighter's pass, it's going to be a Sword and Shield rep. In fact after we saw the way Three Houses got something I'd even say it's probably one of the more likely things to happen, The only question is when. Though probably at least not at the digital event on E3 (...Or well what would of been E3 had not Covid cancelled all social events) as I imagine we'll get a 3rd party then. At least there's always Pokken Tournament for Garchomp?
Ok now, time to talk a bit on what we got from the mini event. To my dismay, despite tripling down on the suggestion. Crash Bandicoot was not Fighter Pass 6, so as such MandyCanNot was wrong. Crash is still a strong possibility should we get a 3rd party or even more then one 3rd party again. But I suppose this was one of those cases where it was just too good to be true. While he did delete this part of his twitter profile, at one point it said "Vergeben sucks" well he at least got more then one character correct. and his bold claims more often then not came true (Aside from well, Minecraft Content but I digress)
Though perhaps what is a little more surprising this time we didn't exactly get a singular character announcement. We only were told who the series was from. And it caught people off guard since it was a series we thought was dead in terms of Smash chances ever since Spring Man was shown as an Assist. We're getting an Arms character. I'm not going to cover every single Arms character that was on the screen. Because despite showing a decent sized roster. I think there are really only 4 possibilities here. If the Arms character is none of these 4 I will be stunned but it would at least be some intriguing drama surrounding it since I do gotta be honest in saying this is a character I'm not entirely that hyped for. Though it should make for a fun moveset in Smash nonetheless no matter what. But anyway, here are the four Arms characters I think have the strongest possibility of joining Smash
MIN-MIN
She's supposedly not only a fan favorite of the cast but a personal favorite of the game's creator and also happened to be a character that won in the final of a tournament of some kind spotted on Nintendo Vs. So for now she may very well be the favorite to be the Arms Rep. She would be the first to break the no Spirits rule though it'd probably be more so a clarification that the spirits only applied to the first pass which may make it a fitting way to start things off by making the pool suddenly alot larger. Though there is also a scenario, where the Arms character could codify the no spirits rule even further dooming off the rest and that's who I'm talking about next...
HELIX
He is one of the few character from Arms that did not get a spirit which means it may very well be Min-Min Vs. Helix who are right now behind the scenes over whether Spirits still matter heading into the 2nd pass. Though aside from that, Helix is a very gooey creature that could of gotten Sakurai's interest for some truly unique fighter feats. I'm still giving the edge to Min-Min at the moment, as heck Helix's spirit may have been saved for the Arms spirit board. But if Spirits still matter and Sakurai sees more potential in a gooey fighter over another humanoid. There's a possibility there.
RIBBON GIRL
She's already been Mii Costume'd but if Assist Trophies are still a big no-no on upgrading. Ribbon Girl is kind of the secondary face of the franchise next to Spring Man who maybe are given another look. Contrary to popular belief she's not exactly an echo of Spring Man though it's conceivable that had Spring Man got in Base Game he'd borrow some abilities from Ribbon Girl just so 4 of his alts could be Ribbon Girl. She's kind of less favored amongst the female cast of the game but if they must have someone who's been more of a face of a franchise and not an Assist. Then Ribbon Girl could be it.
SPRING MAN
That's right, despite being an assist he's still along the possibilities literally only because he kind of was made the face of Arms. While I am on the side that if they were going to use Spring Man they would of just revealed him right away since he'd be the obvious choice. But I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to drive hype only for a bit of a more obvious or somewhat deflating hype. We got an announcement for the final character of the fighter pass and were told we'd get the information on them immediately after. And it turned out to be another Fire Emblem character. So I wouldn't put it past them just yet. That said, the Assist Trophy thing still will be a bit of an obstacle but if it is Spring Man? I think we may as well already give Waluigi his congratulations at some point. Spring Man being the first despite being assist trophies would mean all bets are off and that may just be what Nintendo and Sakurai want for the rest of this pass, utter madness as Assists are now upgradable within the same game as DLC. Waluigi fans going crazy whether or not Waluigi actually does get in later. It's the kind of madness maybe Nintendo would want for some free PR. So while technically it'd be the more boring pick Arms-wise. Speculation-wise it'd be a madhouse.
GARCHOMP
My Level of Want
Garchomp seems to be one of the more standout popular pokemon of Generation IV. Though this is when I have to remind you all that I'm one of those ol' fogies regarding Pokemon that could probably tell you almost anything about the first 2 generations of Pokemon by heart but then knowledge starts to drop off halfway or anytime after the 3rd generation of Pokemon. So hypothetically if Garchomp did make it, it'd really get nothing more then a shrug of "Ok, another pokemon. That's cool". Garchomp certainly looks like he has an appealing cool design that could fit in Smash easily. That said, the chance ranking probably isn't going to care because...
Estimated Chance
As with any Pokemon that didn't make it into Smash when their generation was the new hot thing, it's very doubtful to see happen unless somehow a Pokemon was particularly so popular that they're demanded in the game. You basically have to reach the outcry for Mewtwo in Smash 4 prior to DLC being announced. And part of what helped him was he was previously playable in Melee. It's even harder to suggest an outright old Pokemon that was never previously playable in Smash from making it in. So in some ways you somehow have to push a pokemon EVEN HARDER then those who wanted Mewtwo to return. And that's not an easy task. Another roadblock is we already have had a Gen 4 Pokemon in Lucario, because if I were to think a Pokemon from an old generation got in it's because their generation never got a Rep. Like if they weren't Pokeball'd Gardevoir and Zoroark would be up there as possibilities. But as is, if a Pokemon is included in this 2nd fighter's pass, it's going to be a Sword and Shield rep. In fact after we saw the way Three Houses got something I'd even say it's probably one of the more likely things to happen, The only question is when. Though probably at least not at the digital event on E3 (...Or well what would of been E3 had not Covid cancelled all social events) as I imagine we'll get a 3rd party then. At least there's always Pokken Tournament for Garchomp?
Ok now, time to talk a bit on what we got from the mini event. To my dismay, despite tripling down on the suggestion. Crash Bandicoot was not Fighter Pass 6, so as such MandyCanNot was wrong. Crash is still a strong possibility should we get a 3rd party or even more then one 3rd party again. But I suppose this was one of those cases where it was just too good to be true. While he did delete this part of his twitter profile, at one point it said "Vergeben sucks" well he at least got more then one character correct. and his bold claims more often then not came true (Aside from well, Minecraft Content but I digress)
Though perhaps what is a little more surprising this time we didn't exactly get a singular character announcement. We only were told who the series was from. And it caught people off guard since it was a series we thought was dead in terms of Smash chances ever since Spring Man was shown as an Assist. We're getting an Arms character. I'm not going to cover every single Arms character that was on the screen. Because despite showing a decent sized roster. I think there are really only 4 possibilities here. If the Arms character is none of these 4 I will be stunned but it would at least be some intriguing drama surrounding it since I do gotta be honest in saying this is a character I'm not entirely that hyped for. Though it should make for a fun moveset in Smash nonetheless no matter what. But anyway, here are the four Arms characters I think have the strongest possibility of joining Smash
MIN-MIN
She's supposedly not only a fan favorite of the cast but a personal favorite of the game's creator and also happened to be a character that won in the final of a tournament of some kind spotted on Nintendo Vs. So for now she may very well be the favorite to be the Arms Rep. She would be the first to break the no Spirits rule though it'd probably be more so a clarification that the spirits only applied to the first pass which may make it a fitting way to start things off by making the pool suddenly alot larger. Though there is also a scenario, where the Arms character could codify the no spirits rule even further dooming off the rest and that's who I'm talking about next...
HELIX
He is one of the few character from Arms that did not get a spirit which means it may very well be Min-Min Vs. Helix who are right now behind the scenes over whether Spirits still matter heading into the 2nd pass. Though aside from that, Helix is a very gooey creature that could of gotten Sakurai's interest for some truly unique fighter feats. I'm still giving the edge to Min-Min at the moment, as heck Helix's spirit may have been saved for the Arms spirit board. But if Spirits still matter and Sakurai sees more potential in a gooey fighter over another humanoid. There's a possibility there.
RIBBON GIRL
She's already been Mii Costume'd but if Assist Trophies are still a big no-no on upgrading. Ribbon Girl is kind of the secondary face of the franchise next to Spring Man who maybe are given another look. Contrary to popular belief she's not exactly an echo of Spring Man though it's conceivable that had Spring Man got in Base Game he'd borrow some abilities from Ribbon Girl just so 4 of his alts could be Ribbon Girl. She's kind of less favored amongst the female cast of the game but if they must have someone who's been more of a face of a franchise and not an Assist. Then Ribbon Girl could be it.
SPRING MAN
That's right, despite being an assist he's still along the possibilities literally only because he kind of was made the face of Arms. While I am on the side that if they were going to use Spring Man they would of just revealed him right away since he'd be the obvious choice. But I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to drive hype only for a bit of a more obvious or somewhat deflating hype. We got an announcement for the final character of the fighter pass and were told we'd get the information on them immediately after. And it turned out to be another Fire Emblem character. So I wouldn't put it past them just yet. That said, the Assist Trophy thing still will be a bit of an obstacle but if it is Spring Man? I think we may as well already give Waluigi his congratulations at some point. Spring Man being the first despite being assist trophies would mean all bets are off and that may just be what Nintendo and Sakurai want for the rest of this pass, utter madness as Assists are now upgradable within the same game as DLC. Waluigi fans going crazy whether or not Waluigi actually does get in later. It's the kind of madness maybe Nintendo would want for some free PR. So while technically it'd be the more boring pick Arms-wise. Speculation-wise it'd be a madhouse.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #130
Congratulations to our newest fighter from ARMS: Min Min! This is what most people were hoping to be the fighter from Arms it seemed like, should be nice to have a more relatively peaceful new character reaction compared to how divisive Byleth was last time. Though I should probably a say a bit of a correction from my last post. When I said I thought there were only 4 possibilities even if the one I predicted would be the choice did in fact make it I actually thought there were more ARMS spirits in the base game then there actually were. So I was wrong to say Helix was like the only choice should it have not been Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, or Min-Min. Heck Sakurai did in fact give a 2nd choice in Ninjara. But let's get to my Min-Min thoughts
MIN-MIN
This probably isn't going to be long in terms of talking about the character since I do gotta admit I don't have any personal attachment to the ARMS game. I've played a Demo and decided the game really wasn't for me personally but it was a new IP that was among the possibilities for new content for this game. We just got it alot later then we thought it would. Though it's fairly possible that had ARMS got a character in Base Game it might of been Spring Man. Who remains in the Assist Trophy corner. Min-Min's a pretty good designed character though and seems to not only be the fan favorite but the favorite of the developer(/s). She looks like she'll have some interesting gimmicks once she is playable in a week from now.
For Merit rankings, I'm going to put her below Terry being a pretty new character but probably above Incineroar just for being a character from a new IP and more varying moveset.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Terry Bogard
#9. Min-Min
#10. Incineroar
#11. Byleth
#12. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#Spaghetti. Piranha Plant
______________________________________________________________________________________
With Min-Min settled we must also talk about what her inclusion means for this pass. Min-Min was previously a spirit in the base game. Meaning many characters that are currently spirits and not assist trophies or mii costumes are back on the table. But tread cautiously, with only 5 spots we don't know if there will even be another spirit upgrade cause you still have to consider Nintendo finding it more profitable to get more different IPs in, ARMS is after all still a new universe. But for now here's a list of characters I've covered that at least for now get a 2nd chance after Min-Min has found her way in:
Rayman
Chorus Kids
Dixie Kong
Paper Mario
Captain Toad
Shantae
Dr. Eggman
Bandana Dee
Geno
Characters that are mii costumes (Especially paid costumes) and Assist Trophies are probably still not on the table. Only possible exceptions could be Rex and Waluigi. Rex who's Sakurai basically apologized for not being able to include and Waluigi who's AT deconfirmation got one of the largest reactions ever. There's plenty of other spirits from the base game that got a boost in potential chances but we musn't forget to keep in mind potential characters that are not represented at all.
Though perhaps one character got some doubt about them because their company put in a Mii costume in first. We got Vault Boy from Fallout as a mii costume this time and Fallout is from Bethesda who's also responsible for Doom. While I'm not going to say it's impossible for Bethesda to get a character later it will seem weird to announce their presence first with a mii costume rather then a character. So it's possible Doomguy may be among the fallen.
MIN-MIN
This probably isn't going to be long in terms of talking about the character since I do gotta admit I don't have any personal attachment to the ARMS game. I've played a Demo and decided the game really wasn't for me personally but it was a new IP that was among the possibilities for new content for this game. We just got it alot later then we thought it would. Though it's fairly possible that had ARMS got a character in Base Game it might of been Spring Man. Who remains in the Assist Trophy corner. Min-Min's a pretty good designed character though and seems to not only be the fan favorite but the favorite of the developer(/s). She looks like she'll have some interesting gimmicks once she is playable in a week from now.
For Merit rankings, I'm going to put her below Terry being a pretty new character but probably above Incineroar just for being a character from a new IP and more varying moveset.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Terry Bogard
#9. Min-Min
#10. Incineroar
#11. Byleth
#12. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#Spaghetti. Piranha Plant
______________________________________________________________________________________
With Min-Min settled we must also talk about what her inclusion means for this pass. Min-Min was previously a spirit in the base game. Meaning many characters that are currently spirits and not assist trophies or mii costumes are back on the table. But tread cautiously, with only 5 spots we don't know if there will even be another spirit upgrade cause you still have to consider Nintendo finding it more profitable to get more different IPs in, ARMS is after all still a new universe. But for now here's a list of characters I've covered that at least for now get a 2nd chance after Min-Min has found her way in:
Rayman
Chorus Kids
Dixie Kong
Paper Mario
Captain Toad
Shantae
Dr. Eggman
Bandana Dee
Geno
Characters that are mii costumes (Especially paid costumes) and Assist Trophies are probably still not on the table. Only possible exceptions could be Rex and Waluigi. Rex who's Sakurai basically apologized for not being able to include and Waluigi who's AT deconfirmation got one of the largest reactions ever. There's plenty of other spirits from the base game that got a boost in potential chances but we musn't forget to keep in mind potential characters that are not represented at all.
Though perhaps one character got some doubt about them because their company put in a Mii costume in first. We got Vault Boy from Fallout as a mii costume this time and Fallout is from Bethesda who's also responsible for Doom. While I'm not going to say it's impossible for Bethesda to get a character later it will seem weird to announce their presence first with a mii costume rather then a character. So it's possible Doomguy may be among the fallen.
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SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #131
STEVE
Just thought that first I'll quote my thoughts when I was asked to judge today's character's possible merits during a speculation period.
Certainly some of what I said didn't age well, as we ended up actually getting Banjo before Steve. But much of what I said remains true is that Steve is worthy of Smash even if the Nintendo Purists would of rather taken yet another Fire Emblem character then a character from a franchise they feel is overrated and caters to "Zoomers". Like it or not, Steve is a modern icon of gaming and a big deal. Like I said back then Steve is not a character I personally wanted, but I actually have no problem with his inclusion and looks like to be bringing a fully unique way to play. I'm sure many out there will react to this in ways akin to how I felt about Piranha Plant (I was laughing mad at both reveals, but with Piranha Plant my laughing behind internal screaming. While the laughter over Steve is fully enjoyment and acknowledgement of how I knew the Internet was going to react to this)
That said, in terms of the rankings. It was a little hard admittedly to decide. No, Steve is not going to be with Piranha Plant in the "I'M BROKEN" tier, Steve actually does have deserving merit. But I can't say despite being one of the best selling game of all time that he's automatically high up on the list. Because my merit rankings also factor in how much they mean to Nintendo, and safe to say Nintendo had little to do with the legacy of Minecraft. The success of Minecraft can't be overlooked though and must at least put Steve somewhere in the middle. I think it's fair to rank Steve above the likes of Joker, Byleth, Incineroar, and Min-Min just based on how he predates all of them and/or bringing in a new franchise. It's the Terry/Isabelle/Inkling part of the Ranking where it's a little tough to judge. I think I'm actually going to put Steve above Terry at the very least because Steve is alot more recognizable despite the fact that Terry's been around much longer and... let's just face it: more popular in the general gaming sphere. But I think putting Steve behind newer Nintendo all-stars like Isabelle and Inklings is fair because Animal Crossing has an enduring legacy that still continues especially after New Horizons where Isabelle appeared again after her debut in New Leaf. And Inklings is from an IP that found great success instantly and certainly something Nintendo can be proud of. Minecraft did not show up on Nintendo until the Wii U in 2015, just 5 years ago (Though I would not blame you for feeling like 2015 was a decade ago). And late 2015 (AKA December) at that while Splatoon had been out since May in that same year. And even if I did feel like ranking Steve above Isabelle and the Inklings. I just can't fathom putting Minecraft higher then Castlevania or Dragon Quest. So depending on your point of view #6 is the absolute highest Steve can go. I do however feel #8 on the list is where Steve fits in.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Terry Bogard
#10. Min-Min
#11. Incineroar
#12. Byleth
#13. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#
. Piranha Plant
Just thought that first I'll quote my thoughts when I was asked to judge today's character's possible merits during a speculation period.
Certainly some of what I said didn't age well, as we ended up actually getting Banjo before Steve. But much of what I said remains true is that Steve is worthy of Smash even if the Nintendo Purists would of rather taken yet another Fire Emblem character then a character from a franchise they feel is overrated and caters to "Zoomers". Like it or not, Steve is a modern icon of gaming and a big deal. Like I said back then Steve is not a character I personally wanted, but I actually have no problem with his inclusion and looks like to be bringing a fully unique way to play. I'm sure many out there will react to this in ways akin to how I felt about Piranha Plant (I was laughing mad at both reveals, but with Piranha Plant my laughing behind internal screaming. While the laughter over Steve is fully enjoyment and acknowledgement of how I knew the Internet was going to react to this)
That said, in terms of the rankings. It was a little hard admittedly to decide. No, Steve is not going to be with Piranha Plant in the "I'M BROKEN" tier, Steve actually does have deserving merit. But I can't say despite being one of the best selling game of all time that he's automatically high up on the list. Because my merit rankings also factor in how much they mean to Nintendo, and safe to say Nintendo had little to do with the legacy of Minecraft. The success of Minecraft can't be overlooked though and must at least put Steve somewhere in the middle. I think it's fair to rank Steve above the likes of Joker, Byleth, Incineroar, and Min-Min just based on how he predates all of them and/or bringing in a new franchise. It's the Terry/Isabelle/Inkling part of the Ranking where it's a little tough to judge. I think I'm actually going to put Steve above Terry at the very least because Steve is alot more recognizable despite the fact that Terry's been around much longer and... let's just face it: more popular in the general gaming sphere. But I think putting Steve behind newer Nintendo all-stars like Isabelle and Inklings is fair because Animal Crossing has an enduring legacy that still continues especially after New Horizons where Isabelle appeared again after her debut in New Leaf. And Inklings is from an IP that found great success instantly and certainly something Nintendo can be proud of. Minecraft did not show up on Nintendo until the Wii U in 2015, just 5 years ago (Though I would not blame you for feeling like 2015 was a decade ago). And late 2015 (AKA December) at that while Splatoon had been out since May in that same year. And even if I did feel like ranking Steve above Isabelle and the Inklings. I just can't fathom putting Minecraft higher then Castlevania or Dragon Quest. So depending on your point of view #6 is the absolute highest Steve can go. I do however feel #8 on the list is where Steve fits in.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Terry Bogard
#10. Min-Min
#11. Incineroar
#12. Byleth
#13. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #133
I do try to be objective with my choices though. Sonic is my #1 dream character that made it as far back as Brawl. But let's say hypothetically he never made it in Smash beforehand but ended up being the fighter revealed today. Despite how much I'd be jumping for joy. I couldn't put him higher then Simon because Castlevania goes way back to the NES days while Sonic's Nintendo ties began with the Gamecube/GBA era. No list like this is going to be entirely without bias, but I try to make sure that even if it's a character I don't know alot about. If they're a super popular icon and/or request that's had Nintendo ties then they should obviously be high up. I've only rented the Banjo games so I don't have a childhood with those games but I acknowledge that it was basically at one point a Nintendo IP that just unfortunately was brought to the wayside as legal matters and competition between companies made it seem impossible. Which because it's such a special case, that was the reason it got #1 out of all the Ultimate newcomers from me thus far. From that perspective I don't think Banjo's going to be topped because I'm not sure there's a character with similar background that could really surpass the meaning of Banjo's inclusion. Ridley and K. Rool are longtime fan requests and pivotal characters to their respective franchises and Dragon Quest and Castlevania's legacy speaks for themselves on not just Nintendo but gaming as a whole. So you have to be something special to break into the Top 5.
That said #8 shouldn't be considered too shabby for a character who's only been on Nintendo systems for about 5 years. Perhaps being the highest sold game of all time could technically be seen as an X factor. But even if you want to use that as a reason to put them above newer 1st party characters from this decade such as Isabelle and the Inklings I can't see that as a reason to go higher then Simon/Castlevania with 30+ years of Nintendo-ties compared to Minecraft's 5.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #135
For a little bonus, I thought I'd share the audio for my reaction to the reveal
From the moment I see it's Steve (Skip to 4:00 for that) I pretty much laugh for a minute straight. And periodically laugh throughout the rest of the way.
I have been doing audio reactions for everything ever since the K. Rool Reveal but just never uploaded most of them because I'm not usually the most excitable person reacting to everything. So my reaction to most might bore people but when there's one where I'm laughing hard (Like with Piranha Plant, even if again laughing for an entirely different reason then Steve) or if I ever got someone I really, really wanted (Like Tails or Crash). I have considered putting my Banjo one up as I recall I sounded pretty amazed then, but otherwise yeah.
From the moment I see it's Steve (Skip to 4:00 for that) I pretty much laugh for a minute straight. And periodically laugh throughout the rest of the way.
I have been doing audio reactions for everything ever since the K. Rool Reveal but just never uploaded most of them because I'm not usually the most excitable person reacting to everything. So my reaction to most might bore people but when there's one where I'm laughing hard (Like with Piranha Plant, even if again laughing for an entirely different reason then Steve) or if I ever got someone I really, really wanted (Like Tails or Crash). I have considered putting my Banjo one up as I recall I sounded pretty amazed then, but otherwise yeah.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #136
So... what a surprise we had last night huh? Our next character is from an already represented franchise, and a 3rd party one at that. But is nonetheless certainly one of the most iconic figures in gaming period. Famous for the traumatizing of a generation during a famous scene that may as well be the Darth Vader is Luke's father of gaming.
SEPHIROTH
That's right, we have another Final Fantasy 7 character. With the most ridiculously long sword included. Sephiroth is just one of those names that you're almost certain to hear at some point if you've been gaming sphere for long enough even if you have never played Final Fantasy 7. He's an iconic villain with real impact, as you still have plenty of gamers who infamously remember him for...
And most notably his theme music, which most people reacting then knew it was him as soon as the many of the first notes came in. You have an iconic character whenever you have most people knowing who it is with just the beginning of your character's theme. This should mean we offically have One Winged Angel in Smash. Though let's hope Square played nice this time and also allowed some more music this time around. We should also get FF7 spirits as well as Mii costumes. (Speaking of Mii costumes, Sephiroth may have been the final nail in the coffin for Geno).
Another fact about Sephiroth's inclusion though? He's most assuredly not an echo. Thus he's our first 2nd character of an already represented franchise who isn't an echo. This opens the door for similar characters of legendary status already represented by the main character such as Chun-Li, Proto Man, and perhaps my personal most wanted of all: Tails from Sonic the Hedgehog. Granted, I think Sephiroth is likely to be the exception to the fanrule in Ultimate. But come next game, no one is allowed to tell me Tails can't happen maybe for the exception of inter-Sonic fanbase rivalries with Eggman and Shadow. While I will concede that Eggman may be a tough rival for Tails in the next game if Sonic is only allowed one more character. It would be ignorant to ignore Tails as a strong possibility because much like how Sephiroth is a well-known villain. Tails is similar in terms of iconic sidekicks and Player 2's. You bet your bottom dollar when the next game's speculation began, I will be fully on the Tails train. And I'll have Sephiroth to thank.
Though as for ranking his merit, despite his legenday status. He still is an already represented franchise that didn't necessarily need to be included aside from bolstering the FF7 representation that was solely lacking with just Cloud for some reason. But at the same time said legendary status can't be entirely ignored. I think he deserves to be higher then Terry, but just less then a certain blocky character we got barely over 2 months ago. Sephiroth might of gotten a generation to love to hate him for his evil actions, but Steve has gotten a generation to build blocks for hours upon hours.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Sephiroth
#10. Terry Bogard
#11. Min-Min
#12. Incineroar
#13. Byleth
#14. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#Shall I give you this pear?
. Piranha Plant
SEPHIROTH
That's right, we have another Final Fantasy 7 character. With the most ridiculously long sword included. Sephiroth is just one of those names that you're almost certain to hear at some point if you've been gaming sphere for long enough even if you have never played Final Fantasy 7. He's an iconic villain with real impact, as you still have plenty of gamers who infamously remember him for...
killing the gentle and kind Aerith
And most notably his theme music, which most people reacting then knew it was him as soon as the many of the first notes came in. You have an iconic character whenever you have most people knowing who it is with just the beginning of your character's theme. This should mean we offically have One Winged Angel in Smash. Though let's hope Square played nice this time and also allowed some more music this time around. We should also get FF7 spirits as well as Mii costumes. (Speaking of Mii costumes, Sephiroth may have been the final nail in the coffin for Geno).
Another fact about Sephiroth's inclusion though? He's most assuredly not an echo. Thus he's our first 2nd character of an already represented franchise who isn't an echo. This opens the door for similar characters of legendary status already represented by the main character such as Chun-Li, Proto Man, and perhaps my personal most wanted of all: Tails from Sonic the Hedgehog. Granted, I think Sephiroth is likely to be the exception to the fanrule in Ultimate. But come next game, no one is allowed to tell me Tails can't happen maybe for the exception of inter-Sonic fanbase rivalries with Eggman and Shadow. While I will concede that Eggman may be a tough rival for Tails in the next game if Sonic is only allowed one more character. It would be ignorant to ignore Tails as a strong possibility because much like how Sephiroth is a well-known villain. Tails is similar in terms of iconic sidekicks and Player 2's. You bet your bottom dollar when the next game's speculation began, I will be fully on the Tails train. And I'll have Sephiroth to thank.
Though as for ranking his merit, despite his legenday status. He still is an already represented franchise that didn't necessarily need to be included aside from bolstering the FF7 representation that was solely lacking with just Cloud for some reason. But at the same time said legendary status can't be entirely ignored. I think he deserves to be higher then Terry, but just less then a certain blocky character we got barely over 2 months ago. Sephiroth might of gotten a generation to love to hate him for his evil actions, but Steve has gotten a generation to build blocks for hours upon hours.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Sephiroth
#10. Terry Bogard
#11. Min-Min
#12. Incineroar
#13. Byleth
#14. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#Shall I give you this pear?
. Piranha Plant
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #137
Pardon me for being a tad slower on getting to the Merit of our new character. I just thought I'd take my time a bit because I have had other things to do lately, plus much like the first Xenoblade character we got. I wanted to familiarize myself with the character by seeing an all cutscenes movie on Youtube. I have never been a big JRPG guy, I'm just the kind of gamer that prefers more pick up and play games then ones that demand hours upon hours to complete even a game's main story or learning sometimes very complicated battle systems. But watching Xenoblade 1's story about Shulk and the others was one of the more satisfying things I did because I sort of became that casual fan that's only in it for the story and characters even if I would not be able to play the game itself. While I don't think I was as compelled with Xenoblade 2's story as I was with the first, it still gave some nice background on our new character(/s). Don't worry, if anybody has interest in someday playing Xenoblade 2 I won't mention too many details about the game's plot. There is one thing I might mention could be a major spoiler in regards to potential alt. costumes but I'll make sure to put that in a spoiler box. Though there is the strong possibility it gets spoiled in Sakurai's presentation.
PYRA/MYTHRA
The Xenoblade series is another of the series Sakurai seems to fanboy over. Don't be surprised that if the presentation is longer then 30 minutes, a good chunk of it is just Sakurai singing his praises for the franchise. There's always been this sense that Sakurai wanted to include Rex in the base game but was just too late. And he ended up being only a Mii costume exclusive to those who bought the first fighter's pass. (Though for those who decided to skip on the Fighter's Pass like me and got the fighters individually, that just makes him a very expensive Mii costume. So I don't actually have the Rex costume) But Xenoblade 2 didn't get skipped out thanks to Pyra and Mythra now being in Smash.
In some ways, having Pyra without Rex kind of misses the point of Xenoblade 2's main focus on the relationship between Drivers like Rex and Blades like Pyra. I'll admit even after watching the story it's a little hard for me to explain. The most I can sort of try to simplify it is sort of having a mix between a genie and the gems from Steven Universe if that makes any sort of sense. Now of course I'm not saying Blades grant wishes like a genie but I mean more so in terms of having one person reawaken them that they're connected to. Most even have a sort of "lamp" in these blue cubes (Though special Blades like Pyra certainly have different shape cores) that wait for a driver to awaken them. Though when a Blade goes back into the cube they lose all memories they had about their time with their driver. In most cases, a Blade goes back into their core because their driver died. In most cases this also means Blades are kind of immortal, though again with the trade-off that they do not usually keep the memories of their past lives with previous drivers. This obviously becomes quite a source of angst for many of the characters throughout the story. Pyra herself is at least over 500 years old (Though of course, there are many details throughout the story that makes it quite a bit more complicated in Pyra's case.
Going back a bit to my allegory I mentioned that the Blades are also sort of like Gems from Steven Universe in that they have a part of their body with their core just like how Steven Universe gems have their gems somewhere on their body. they also come with a distinct weapon (Usually some kind of sword, since they are called blades) that they or the driver can use. And... most blades you come across are female. Granted, there are male blades and non-humanoid blades as well, but a good majority you'll find are women... which is part of why some either jokingly refer or even insult this game by calling it a sort of waifu collector. I guess in some ways it's sort of like the Blades are the Pokemon here and while in the context of Smash that's make it why we got Pyra instead of with Rex that does carry some rather unfortunate connotations that blades are still very much human personalities. Which may carry accusation of the game basically what amounts to slaves. In some ways that's part of the narrative as some motivation for at least one of the particular antagonists, though for the most part at least for the main heroes Drivers and Blades generally treat eachother as equals. So while I wouldn't blame someone for questioning the setup here with that in mind. At the very least in most cases it doesn't get too uncomfortable with the potential connotations? Once again going back to comparisons to genies and/or gems. It's at least fair to say Blades are alot more free then most depictions of Genies though perhaps a bit less then Steven Universe gems (Well, I mean, the main character gems from that show. Obviously many of the homeworld gems are... pretty much under authoritarian rule under the diamonds but now this is getting kind of off-topic)
It's probably a good chance that if Xenoblade 2 had gotten a character in the base game it would of been Rex with Pyra in some fashion. But Pyra/Mythra should still be able to carry much of the theme of Xenoblade 2 by themselves. One mystery about them in Smash we have yet to know is their alt costumes as we're suspiciously not able to see their alt colors on the Smash website when I believe in most cases we could see new character's alts as soon as they were added. I think the main reason for this is probably because of a certain spoiler.
Anyway, as for the merit ranking. I believe they should be the highest merit of the characters who debuted on a Switch game. Though the tough decision was whether or not to put them above Terry. Obviously, Pyra kinda has a recognizable design (Though YMMV on if it's exactly good design) that most who have followed Nintendo in the Switch era know. Terry being harder to have the next fan know who he is despite his long legacy in fighting games. I believe it makes sense for Terry to be higher at the moment just so for his legacy and Pyra/Mythra being a little new but at the very least beefs up the representation for the Xenoblade series that seemed oddly lacking despite the series having grown much since Shulk's game got the cult following it got.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Sephiroth
#10. Terry Bogard
#11. Pyra/Mythra
#12. Min-Min
#13. Incineroar
#14. Byleth
#15. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#AAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIyah. Piranha Plant
PYRA/MYTHRA
The Xenoblade series is another of the series Sakurai seems to fanboy over. Don't be surprised that if the presentation is longer then 30 minutes, a good chunk of it is just Sakurai singing his praises for the franchise. There's always been this sense that Sakurai wanted to include Rex in the base game but was just too late. And he ended up being only a Mii costume exclusive to those who bought the first fighter's pass. (Though for those who decided to skip on the Fighter's Pass like me and got the fighters individually, that just makes him a very expensive Mii costume. So I don't actually have the Rex costume) But Xenoblade 2 didn't get skipped out thanks to Pyra and Mythra now being in Smash.
In some ways, having Pyra without Rex kind of misses the point of Xenoblade 2's main focus on the relationship between Drivers like Rex and Blades like Pyra. I'll admit even after watching the story it's a little hard for me to explain. The most I can sort of try to simplify it is sort of having a mix between a genie and the gems from Steven Universe if that makes any sort of sense. Now of course I'm not saying Blades grant wishes like a genie but I mean more so in terms of having one person reawaken them that they're connected to. Most even have a sort of "lamp" in these blue cubes (Though special Blades like Pyra certainly have different shape cores) that wait for a driver to awaken them. Though when a Blade goes back into the cube they lose all memories they had about their time with their driver. In most cases, a Blade goes back into their core because their driver died. In most cases this also means Blades are kind of immortal, though again with the trade-off that they do not usually keep the memories of their past lives with previous drivers. This obviously becomes quite a source of angst for many of the characters throughout the story. Pyra herself is at least over 500 years old (Though of course, there are many details throughout the story that makes it quite a bit more complicated in Pyra's case.
Going back a bit to my allegory I mentioned that the Blades are also sort of like Gems from Steven Universe in that they have a part of their body with their core just like how Steven Universe gems have their gems somewhere on their body. they also come with a distinct weapon (Usually some kind of sword, since they are called blades) that they or the driver can use. And... most blades you come across are female. Granted, there are male blades and non-humanoid blades as well, but a good majority you'll find are women... which is part of why some either jokingly refer or even insult this game by calling it a sort of waifu collector. I guess in some ways it's sort of like the Blades are the Pokemon here and while in the context of Smash that's make it why we got Pyra instead of with Rex that does carry some rather unfortunate connotations that blades are still very much human personalities. Which may carry accusation of the game basically what amounts to slaves. In some ways that's part of the narrative as some motivation for at least one of the particular antagonists, though for the most part at least for the main heroes Drivers and Blades generally treat eachother as equals. So while I wouldn't blame someone for questioning the setup here with that in mind. At the very least in most cases it doesn't get too uncomfortable with the potential connotations? Once again going back to comparisons to genies and/or gems. It's at least fair to say Blades are alot more free then most depictions of Genies though perhaps a bit less then Steven Universe gems (Well, I mean, the main character gems from that show. Obviously many of the homeworld gems are... pretty much under authoritarian rule under the diamonds but now this is getting kind of off-topic)
It's probably a good chance that if Xenoblade 2 had gotten a character in the base game it would of been Rex with Pyra in some fashion. But Pyra/Mythra should still be able to carry much of the theme of Xenoblade 2 by themselves. One mystery about them in Smash we have yet to know is their alt costumes as we're suspiciously not able to see their alt colors on the Smash website when I believe in most cases we could see new character's alts as soon as they were added. I think the main reason for this is probably because of a certain spoiler.
Pyra has another form other then Mythra called Pnuema. A more green haired look with some fancy armor which is kind of Pyra and Mythra's true form. Either there's going to be recolors that just change the clothing and hair color to refer to Pneuma or... there might even be the possibility of Pneuma taking up at least one or two slots by herself with the change between Pyra/Mythra being more like stance changes rather then character switching.
Anyway, as for the merit ranking. I believe they should be the highest merit of the characters who debuted on a Switch game. Though the tough decision was whether or not to put them above Terry. Obviously, Pyra kinda has a recognizable design (Though YMMV on if it's exactly good design) that most who have followed Nintendo in the Switch era know. Terry being harder to have the next fan know who he is despite his long legacy in fighting games. I believe it makes sense for Terry to be higher at the moment just so for his legacy and Pyra/Mythra being a little new but at the very least beefs up the representation for the Xenoblade series that seemed oddly lacking despite the series having grown much since Shulk's game got the cult following it got.
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Sephiroth
#10. Terry Bogard
#11. Pyra/Mythra
#12. Min-Min
#13. Incineroar
#14. Byleth
#15. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#AAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIyah. Piranha Plant
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #138
We have our 2nd-to-last character! Though before getting to the character thought I'd mention my expectations going forward. I think the character revealed yesterday was likely our last 3rd party choice. The only exception may be is if the final character is saved for the Game Awards. But if say it's a mystery presentation and/r revealed in a Fall direct. I'm kinda expecting to end on a 1st Party character. And I won't be surprised if say... it's a Gen 8 Pokemon or something. You can probably thank Byleth for the expectations for this last fighter, but anyway. So as much as I hate to say it, I don't think characters like Crash Bandicoot have made it to Ultimate. Would love to be wrong, but that's how it feels at the moment
But anyway, on to our new fighter
KAZUYA
I kinda have to admit I'm once again not too familiar with a franchise for a new character. But I definitely recognize Tekeen's worth. Though Tekken doesn't have alot of a Nintendo-based merit. As the franchise has it's roots in the Playstation 1 era. Making Kazuya perhaps even less Nintendo-specific merit then Sephiroth or Joker. Because at least two are from franchises or at least spun-off from franchises that have real old Nintendo roots. Not there isn't Tekken games on Nintendo systems. The Game Boy Advance, 3DS, and the Wii U at least got spin-off entries of the franchise. But the closest we've had to a mainline Tekken game funnily enough was a Pokemon game in the form of Pokken Tournament. None of the main Tekken games made it on the N64, the Gamecube, Wii, or currently the Switch
However, Tekken has it's presence for a reason and it's certainly a big part of Fighting Game history. It was even said by Sakurai himself that Heihachi was considered for Smash 4 but I guess he hadn't figured out how to get a Tekken style into Smash until now. While Kazuya is probably not as recognized as Heihachi is, he's still very Heihachi related in that he was dropped off a cliff as a baby by Heihachi. But he somehow survived and would later grow up to get revenge on his father.
Even though at least first-game wise Kazuya's kind of a protagonist he's definitely not exactly on the good side either. As it turns out every Tekken character does more wrong with good so it's hard to say any of the characters are ones you want to look up to as heroes. Though more variety on alignment is pretty good
I do expect however thast just like with Ryu, Ken, and Terry. I'm not sure he's a character I'll use very much personally since I'm pretty much a scrub at traditional fighting games. But Tekken's certainly up there with Street Fighter and King of Fighters in iconic parts of the genre. So a welcoming addition to Smash. Given Smash is all about throwing off character's off a cliff. He may even feel right at home here.
Now on to the Merit Ranking. Tekken's lack of appearances does sort of hurt his standing in my criteria for ranking. However Tekken is heck of a lot more recognizable then King of Fighters or Fatal Fury so he at least deserves a ranking above Terry. But I think he won't get much farther from there. Cause I hesitate swiftly on the thought of putting him above Sephiroth despite the fact that Tekken's a new franchise. Even if much of the FF representation is FF7 focused, that Franchise still has deep Nintendo roots and even FF7 wise is sort of fixed now that the game is playable on the Switch. Tekken has no such roots. So I believe he fits firmly at #10 in the merit rankings
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Sephiroth
#10. Kazuya
#11. Terry Bogard
#12. Pyra/Mythra
#13. Min-Min
#14. Incineroar
#15. Byleth
#16. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#Tossed off a cliff. Piranha Plant
But anyway, on to our new fighter
KAZUYA
I kinda have to admit I'm once again not too familiar with a franchise for a new character. But I definitely recognize Tekeen's worth. Though Tekken doesn't have alot of a Nintendo-based merit. As the franchise has it's roots in the Playstation 1 era. Making Kazuya perhaps even less Nintendo-specific merit then Sephiroth or Joker. Because at least two are from franchises or at least spun-off from franchises that have real old Nintendo roots. Not there isn't Tekken games on Nintendo systems. The Game Boy Advance, 3DS, and the Wii U at least got spin-off entries of the franchise. But the closest we've had to a mainline Tekken game funnily enough was a Pokemon game in the form of Pokken Tournament. None of the main Tekken games made it on the N64, the Gamecube, Wii, or currently the Switch
However, Tekken has it's presence for a reason and it's certainly a big part of Fighting Game history. It was even said by Sakurai himself that Heihachi was considered for Smash 4 but I guess he hadn't figured out how to get a Tekken style into Smash until now. While Kazuya is probably not as recognized as Heihachi is, he's still very Heihachi related in that he was dropped off a cliff as a baby by Heihachi. But he somehow survived and would later grow up to get revenge on his father.
Even though at least first-game wise Kazuya's kind of a protagonist he's definitely not exactly on the good side either. As it turns out every Tekken character does more wrong with good so it's hard to say any of the characters are ones you want to look up to as heroes. Though more variety on alignment is pretty good
I do expect however thast just like with Ryu, Ken, and Terry. I'm not sure he's a character I'll use very much personally since I'm pretty much a scrub at traditional fighting games. But Tekken's certainly up there with Street Fighter and King of Fighters in iconic parts of the genre. So a welcoming addition to Smash. Given Smash is all about throwing off character's off a cliff. He may even feel right at home here.
Now on to the Merit Ranking. Tekken's lack of appearances does sort of hurt his standing in my criteria for ranking. However Tekken is heck of a lot more recognizable then King of Fighters or Fatal Fury so he at least deserves a ranking above Terry. But I think he won't get much farther from there. Cause I hesitate swiftly on the thought of putting him above Sephiroth despite the fact that Tekken's a new franchise. Even if much of the FF representation is FF7 focused, that Franchise still has deep Nintendo roots and even FF7 wise is sort of fixed now that the game is playable on the Switch. Tekken has no such roots. So I believe he fits firmly at #10 in the merit rankings
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Simon Belmont
#6. Isabelle
#7. Inklings
#8. Steve
#9. Sephiroth
#10. Kazuya
#11. Terry Bogard
#12. Pyra/Mythra
#13. Min-Min
#14. Incineroar
#15. Byleth
#16. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#Tossed off a cliff. Piranha Plant
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #139
Well, we're finally here with the last fighter. Allow me to give my thoughts on the new Gen 8 poke-
...Wait, what?
Hold on... You're shitting me, you're absolutely shitting me!
THEY ACTUALLY ENDED SMASH SPECULATION WITH A GODDAMN BANG?!
Now... admittedly I haven't played a single second of the series that the new fighter is from.
BUT HOLY SHIT!
I know this is a pretty damn BIG deal regardless!
Without further adieu, let's talk about...
SORA
I wouldn't have believed it in 1,000,000 years that this day would come. Sora may be part Square Enix, who can be already stingy enough. But to add to his complications. Fucking. Disney. owns. his. rights. FUCKING. DISNEY
Anyone have any idea what the rights negotiation hell this might have been?! I'm even surprised they let the Mickey Mouse keychain slip through! And ANY footage of the Disney characters from the games in an official Nintendo direct! It's mindblowing seeing Goofy, Donald, Winnie the Pooh, the Genie from Aladdin, and Ariel in a fucking Smash Bros. Direct. Obviously the actual representation of Disney in Smash is severely limited as guessed given Spirits and cameos on the stage are restricted to the original characters from Kingdom Hearts. And no Disney world songs are among the music in the game.
What's more, Sakurai confirmed that Sora was the true winner of the Smash ballot. When they said "realizable" when mentioning Bayonetta. They obviously were not up to the task of negogiating Sora for Smash 4 nor most of Ultimate's cycle. I think part of the surprise also comes from the fact Byleth ending the first pass had lowered my expectations. And then we already had Sephiroth in the same pass. I would of thought Sora would of been an E3 or a Game Awards reveal. They even had a mystery presentation where I'm like "Oh boy, this may be Byleth all over again..." almost like this was planned from the start. Have people think we may end Smash ultimate on a disappointment based on the ending of the first pass, only to get those expectations blown to fucking pieces by fucking Sora.
Friendly reminder that Nintendo has theme parks in Universal. AKA a direct competitor to Disney in both entertainment and theme park industries. This by all means should of been fucking impossible. But somehow, somehow Sakurai broke through. It makes me wonder if even Goku could actually on the table some day. Goku's the only one that could conceivably top Sora at this point. That's how huge this is.
On a core moveset level, Sora's another anime swordfighter and those who hate that will complain. But this is another case similar to Sephiroth where the response should be "FUCK YOU. IT'S FUCKING SORA!".
I guess one downside is that Kingdom Hearts isn't a franchise traditionally linked to Nintendo. For that reason, Sora can't be the best merited inclusion in the game. That said, Kingdom Hearts games have been on Nintendo consoles as far back as the GBA. So it's not entirely lacking in the Nintendo side of things. Certainly more then Joker, and probably up until FF7 was put on the Switch. More then Cloud (And by extension Sephiroth) before he got in Smash 4. But until the cloud gaming versions got announced (within the same direct) the main Kingdom Hearts games couldn't be played on a Nintendo console. I also believe that being the most voted in the fighter ballot, plus the utter sheer perceived impossibility of the task (Which if you remember, was used as a reason Banjo was placed at #1. If Banjo had been a Nintendo property the entire time yet for some reason Nintendo forgot to use him until the same DLC spot in Ultimate. He'd probably be fairly lower.)
I could understand there being a big debate on whether Sora deserves this spot. But I'm going to put him at #5. This is below Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool, and the Heroes from Dragon Quest. But above Simon from Castlevania. I could understand the argument that Sora should be below Simon just for Castlevania's impact on platformers. So at least let me assure you that it's probably pretty close, it's just the aforementioned x-factors that to me gives Sora the slight edge over him. While he's not quite Nintendo centric as either Banjo, Ridley, and K. Rool and not as genre-defining as Dragon Quest.
As with any big character, I welcome Sora to Smash with open arms. And I congratulate all his fans whether they thought he did have a chance or was too afraid to even dream about the possibility without crushed hopes. The future of Smash is going to be uncertain. But it's probably going to be impossible to match what Ultimate brought to the table. Whenever the next game comes I'll probably be among those awaiting a character I want whether that's Tails or Crash Bandicoot. But even if one or both make it, it'll be a bit sad they didn't make it on what will likely be the Smash series magnum opus in terms of Roster. I could hardly fathom Smash being able to bring all these fighters back on the table again. And DLC for the next Smash may be a hellhole between those who want new faces, and those who want the Ultimate fighters back.
Thanks for everyone who bothered to read any of my rambles on each fighter! I may have a similar new project to these merit rankings coming up soon in an entirely new thread. Stay tuned! ^^
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Sora
#6. Simon Belmont
#7. Isabelle
#8. Inklings
#9. Steve
#10. Sephiroth
#11. Kazuya
#12. Terry Bogard
#13. Pyra/Mythra
#14. Min-Min
#15. Incineroar
#16. Byleth
#17. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#YAAAAAAA HO HO HOOOOOOI. Piranha Plant
...Wait, what?
Hold on... You're shitting me, you're absolutely shitting me!
THEY ACTUALLY ENDED SMASH SPECULATION WITH A GODDAMN BANG?!
Now... admittedly I haven't played a single second of the series that the new fighter is from.
BUT HOLY SHIT!
I know this is a pretty damn BIG deal regardless!
Without further adieu, let's talk about...
SORA
I wouldn't have believed it in 1,000,000 years that this day would come. Sora may be part Square Enix, who can be already stingy enough. But to add to his complications. Fucking. Disney. owns. his. rights. FUCKING. DISNEY
Anyone have any idea what the rights negotiation hell this might have been?! I'm even surprised they let the Mickey Mouse keychain slip through! And ANY footage of the Disney characters from the games in an official Nintendo direct! It's mindblowing seeing Goofy, Donald, Winnie the Pooh, the Genie from Aladdin, and Ariel in a fucking Smash Bros. Direct. Obviously the actual representation of Disney in Smash is severely limited as guessed given Spirits and cameos on the stage are restricted to the original characters from Kingdom Hearts. And no Disney world songs are among the music in the game.
What's more, Sakurai confirmed that Sora was the true winner of the Smash ballot. When they said "realizable" when mentioning Bayonetta. They obviously were not up to the task of negogiating Sora for Smash 4 nor most of Ultimate's cycle. I think part of the surprise also comes from the fact Byleth ending the first pass had lowered my expectations. And then we already had Sephiroth in the same pass. I would of thought Sora would of been an E3 or a Game Awards reveal. They even had a mystery presentation where I'm like "Oh boy, this may be Byleth all over again..." almost like this was planned from the start. Have people think we may end Smash ultimate on a disappointment based on the ending of the first pass, only to get those expectations blown to fucking pieces by fucking Sora.
Friendly reminder that Nintendo has theme parks in Universal. AKA a direct competitor to Disney in both entertainment and theme park industries. This by all means should of been fucking impossible. But somehow, somehow Sakurai broke through. It makes me wonder if even Goku could actually on the table some day. Goku's the only one that could conceivably top Sora at this point. That's how huge this is.
On a core moveset level, Sora's another anime swordfighter and those who hate that will complain. But this is another case similar to Sephiroth where the response should be "FUCK YOU. IT'S FUCKING SORA!".
I guess one downside is that Kingdom Hearts isn't a franchise traditionally linked to Nintendo. For that reason, Sora can't be the best merited inclusion in the game. That said, Kingdom Hearts games have been on Nintendo consoles as far back as the GBA. So it's not entirely lacking in the Nintendo side of things. Certainly more then Joker, and probably up until FF7 was put on the Switch. More then Cloud (And by extension Sephiroth) before he got in Smash 4. But until the cloud gaming versions got announced (within the same direct) the main Kingdom Hearts games couldn't be played on a Nintendo console. I also believe that being the most voted in the fighter ballot, plus the utter sheer perceived impossibility of the task (Which if you remember, was used as a reason Banjo was placed at #1. If Banjo had been a Nintendo property the entire time yet for some reason Nintendo forgot to use him until the same DLC spot in Ultimate. He'd probably be fairly lower.)
I could understand there being a big debate on whether Sora deserves this spot. But I'm going to put him at #5. This is below Banjo, Ridley, K. Rool, and the Heroes from Dragon Quest. But above Simon from Castlevania. I could understand the argument that Sora should be below Simon just for Castlevania's impact on platformers. So at least let me assure you that it's probably pretty close, it's just the aforementioned x-factors that to me gives Sora the slight edge over him. While he's not quite Nintendo centric as either Banjo, Ridley, and K. Rool and not as genre-defining as Dragon Quest.
As with any big character, I welcome Sora to Smash with open arms. And I congratulate all his fans whether they thought he did have a chance or was too afraid to even dream about the possibility without crushed hopes. The future of Smash is going to be uncertain. But it's probably going to be impossible to match what Ultimate brought to the table. Whenever the next game comes I'll probably be among those awaiting a character I want whether that's Tails or Crash Bandicoot. But even if one or both make it, it'll be a bit sad they didn't make it on what will likely be the Smash series magnum opus in terms of Roster. I could hardly fathom Smash being able to bring all these fighters back on the table again. And DLC for the next Smash may be a hellhole between those who want new faces, and those who want the Ultimate fighters back.
Thanks for everyone who bothered to read any of my rambles on each fighter! I may have a similar new project to these merit rankings coming up soon in an entirely new thread. Stay tuned! ^^
UNIQUE RANKINGS
#1. Banjo-Kazooie
#2. Ridley
#3. King K. Rool
#4. The Hero
#5. Sora
#6. Simon Belmont
#7. Isabelle
#8. Inklings
#9. Steve
#10. Sephiroth
#11. Kazuya
#12. Terry Bogard
#13. Pyra/Mythra
#14. Min-Min
#15. Incineroar
#16. Byleth
#17. Joker
ECHO FIGHTER RANKINGS
#1. Ken
#2. Dark Samus
#3. Chrom
#4. Daisy
#5. Richter Belmont
SONICMARIO.EXE IS BROKEN
#YAAAAAAA HO HO HOOOOOOI. Piranha Plant