Would you like a different story/villain every once in a while?

[Specific Neptune]

I could literally write out my exact same argument and it would still be valid

 

[Mcmadness]

And you'd still be wrong. Other media has things like, stories and plots, developed characters and shit that would actually justify changing that stuff.

Mario doesn't, nor is it ever going to. Thus, no reason to change the badguy.

They tried that shit with Donkey Kong and what happened? Most people just wanted King K.Rool back.

 

[Koops]

Except they actually completely omitted K Rool for every game after DK64, while Bowser has always been here, in spme way or another, mostly as a villain. No one said replace him, just basically... have something different every once in a while.

I mean, I'm not bothered by Bowser being the main bad guy, but I get the people who are.

BUT you can still do things with Bowser, if different is all we want. Odyssey at least threw some recurring appearances here and there, so I can say they made him a nice villain there, just as much as, say, Mario Galaxy, where you would somewhat feel a sense of threat around him. These are times I was thankful Bowser was the villain, because he's just the one who suits the role the most.

 

[Mcmadness]

Even back then when it was just one game he was absent from people still just wanted King K.Rool back, the fact that it kept happening has just made it worse over the years.

And I know no one is saying permanently replace him, my argument is that (as far as the platformers go) the logistics offer no justification for it even for just one game.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Sonic fans just want Eggman back as a main villain. I know I do and I'm not a Sonic fan.

Why aren't you guys sick of Mario being the main good guy? You're scared I'd be offended?

 

[Ray Trace]

Yeah I don't want Eggman being constantly sidelined by villains who are generic, bland, and boring. Don't like how that's been happening to him constantly.

Luckily, I don't think the same thing will happen to Bowser. Bowser has been the de facto villain in most Mario Party games (except Super) and I enjoy him all the time.

 

[Specific Neptune]

And you'd still be wrong.

you heard it here first folks, mcmadness told us our opinions are wrong, so they're wrong. might as well lock the topic now.

Other media has things like, stories and plots, developed characters and shit that would actually justify changing that stuff.

Mario doesn't, nor is it ever going to. Thus, no reason to change the badguy.

*coughcoughmarioandluigicoughcoughpapermariocoughcoughsupermariorpglegendofthesevenstarscoughcough*

They tried that shit with Donkey Kong and what happened? Most people just wanted King K.Rool back.

probably because k. rool was insanely popular as a character, not just as a villain. they wanted him back regardless of whether he was a villain or not

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Is Bowser not insanely popular as well?

 

[Specific Neptune]

of course, which is why i think they shouldn't rule him out as a character, but simply change up the villain scene once in a while

remember how good bowser's inside story was with bowser as a playable character instead of a villain? or mario and luigi superstar saga where bowser was a supporting character/minor antagonist? it works, these games are at least evidence of that, so i don't see why this should be just shot down immediately like our lives depended on it

 

[Mcmadness]

you heard it here first folks, mcmadness told us our opinions are wrong, so they're wrong. might as well lock the topic now.

I'm not arguing opinions. I'm arguing from a developers stand point. They have absolutely no reason to do it.

*coughcoughmarioandluigicoughcoughpapermariocoughcoughsupermariorpglegendofthesevenstarscoughcough*

Exceptions don't make rules. The rpgs make up what, 10% of the games in this franchise? Besides, I'm talking about the platformers only.

probably because k. rool was insanely popular as a character, not just as a villain. they wanted him back regardless of whether he was a villain or not

Not true, I lost track of how many tiki vs kremlings or Kremlings vs Snowmad arguments I saw back when both those games were coming out. Hell I often still see them now.

of course, which is why i think they shouldn't rule him out as a character, but simply change up the villain scene once in a while

remember how good bowser's inside story was with bowser as a playable character instead of a villain? or mario and luigi superstar saga where bowser was a supporting character/minor antagonist? it works, these games are at least evidence of that, so i don't see why this should be just shot down immediately like our lives depended on it

This is where my bias comes in.

Yeah I remember Bowser's inside story. It's also the only time he's ever been a supporting character that didn't completely suck shit and I have no confidence in anyone doing that again properly.

His role in superstar saga was fucking awful and I never want to see anything like it again. He spends most of the game as either an amnesiac with a completely different personality or possessed by someone else who then proceeds to literally do exactly what he does thus making the entire concept of the new villain completely moot anyway. Superstar Saga is a good game in spite of his role in it, not because of it.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I have to agree with Mcmadness. Bowser also gives his first impressions as a bumbling fool especially up against the new characters when he's not being practically other characters. His derpy sprite didn't help at all.

 

[Starlight24]

Except they actually completely omitted K Rool for every game after DK64, while Bowser has always been here, in spme way or another, mostly as a villain. No one said replace him, just basically... have something different every once in a while

except it never worked.

Remember Wart and Tatanga? me neither. Why? because they never made good villains like Bowser does, that's why they are in a burning garbage dumpster with other forgotten Mario characters.

it simply doesnt' work.

 

[Koops]

Well yeah, even though people beg for these to come back, but if they weren't even thought of by Nintendo, and Bowser was the villain in both games, it could've went better.

Wart is partially excusable though, since his game was reskinned as a Mario game.

But yeah, again, Bowzito is my man.

 

[Qayin]

Bowser in Superstar Saga had what SMRPG did to him. Which was hitting you over the head with how the new villain is totally stronger and darker than Bowser.

 

[Specific Neptune]

you heard it here first folks, mcmadness told us our opinions are wrong, so they're wrong. might as well lock the topic now.

I'm not arguing opinions. I'm arguing from a developers stand point. They have absolutely no reason to do it.

that's arguing opinions, i had my opinion and you just flat out stated that i was wrong, that's not how fucking opinions work dude

*coughcoughmarioandluigicoughcoughpapermariocoughcoughsupermariorpglegendofthesevenstarscoughcough*

Exceptions don't make rules. The rpgs make up what, 10% of the games in this franchise? Besides, I'm talking about the platformers only.

they're evidence that this can work

if you want me to hack up my guts even further, then super mario bros. 2? super mario land? super mario land 2: 6 golden coins? even yoshi's island didn't feature bowser as the main antagonist, that was kamek. each of those games were incredibly popular when their consoles were around, each of them has a different villain other than bowser

each of them brought about new enemies and battlestyles that didn't rely on fucking "KOOPA KOOPA GOOMBA KOOPA BULLET BILL KOOPA GOOMBA KOOPA" over and over again

i'm not going to shit on the other mario games because they are good games, but they get repetitive to the point where you can only play it once before it bores you off your ass.

i've played each of the zelda games over and over again, because the games often feature different villains. sure ganon comes back once in a while, why shouldn't he, he's a fun popular villain, but it's refreshing to see someone else take over hyrule once in a while

and yes, i know what you're going to say, the mario characters don't have personalities

but oh wait a second they do!

because if you've played super mario 64, super mario sunshine, super mario galaxy 1 & 2, super mario odyssey and pretty much any mario game released over the past decade, you'd realise that they all have their own personalities and their personalities CAN get repetitive


to give you guys another reason to shit all over my opinions (because that seems to be a common theme around here now), i honestly think the galaxy games would have been 10 times better if the main villain was a space themed villain like tatanga or the shroobs and not fucking bowser again

because why the fuck would bowser have an alien saucer of all the shit that he owns? it makes no sense

 

[Koops]

Sorry but I kinda disagree on the Mario Galaxy part, mainly because it's touching on my own territory there...

But Bowser just fits there. It's not out of his character to own weird things never seen before. Who actually built an entire floating castle underground beneath Peach's castle in Paper Mario?

Wait now that I think of it it makes sense since he had the Star Rod at the time.

 

[Mcmadness]

that's arguing opinions, i had my opinion and you just flat out stated that i was wrong, that's not how fucking opinions work dude.

No, it's still not. Not for that part. I have very clearly laid out why the developers won't do it and what I have stated is the truth of the matter. They will not do it for there is no benefit to them doing so. It is the objective truth of the matter. They know this and have been doing it for over 30 years. Please note, the following is the opinion part. Not what I have just said above.

they're evidence that this can work

if you want me to hack up my guts even further, then super mario bros. 2? super mario land? super mario land 2: 6 golden coins? even yoshi's island didn't feature bowser as the main antagonist, that was kamek. each of those games were incredibly popular when their consoles were around, each of them has a different villain other than bowser

each of them brought about new enemies and battlestyles that didn't rely on fucking "KOOPA KOOPA GOOMBA KOOPA BULLET BILL KOOPA GOOMBA KOOPA" over and over again

i'm not going to shit on the other mario games because they are good games, but they get repetitive to the point where you can only play it once before it bores you off your ass.

i've played each of the zelda games over and over again, because the games often feature different villains. sure ganon comes back once in a while, why shouldn't he, he's a fun popular villain, but it's refreshing to see someone else take over hyrule once in a while

and yes, i know what you're going to say, the mario characters don't have personalities

but oh wait a second they do!

because if you've played super mario 64, super mario sunshine, super mario galaxy 1 & 2, super mario odyssey and pretty much any mario game released over the past decade, you'd realise that they all have their own personalities and their personalities CAN get repetitive


to give you guys another reason to shit all over my opinions (because that seems to be a common theme around here now), i honestly think the galaxy games would have been 10 times better if the main villain was a space themed villain like tatanga or the shroobs and not fucking bowser again

because why the fuck would bowser have an alien saucer of all the shit that he owns? it makes no sense

First of all, you need to relax. No one is attacking you personally (at least I'm not) we are just having a discussion.

Super Mario Bros 2 isn't a Mario game, at least not originally. Had it been one from start to end, I bet it would have turned out much differently than how it wound up.

Super Mario Land 1 and 2 both have goombas, koopas and bullet bills (or goombos in 1's case) and new enemies are introduced in Mario games all the time. Enemy variety has never been an issue with Bowser. We've had things like bob-ombs whomps, thwomps, aliens, robots, moles, sports players, golems, bugs, half the wonky ass shit that was in sunshine. I guarantee you that had Bowser been the badguy of both games, very little would have changed apart from the last few minutes of the game where you fought him.

Same with Yoshi's Island, besides shy guys the game is full of koopas and Kamek works for Bowser. He's a henchman.

I didn't say they had no personality. I said they weren't developed. Which they aren't. Zelda has an emphasis on story thus they can actually spend a lot of time going into detail about whomever you are fighting. Mario doesn't, nor is it ever going to. Whatever personality the characters in Mario have is just fluff. Often there for minor amusement and is often adjusted to fit whatever the game is about.

Bowser having spaceships is hardly all that weird. At least when looking at the fact that Mario is a weird ass series by nature. Despite being a fire breathing turtle living in a lava infested castle whose King of a large army of turtles, Bowser has had many things that don't "make sense" with that image. As early as his first appearance where he had goombas, piranaha plants and buzzy beetles as his minions and it's only gotten whackier since. But people accept it because Mario is a very ilogical series where a fat cartoon italian runs around touching mushrooms to get big while jumping on things.