My experiences with New Super Mario Bros.

Only because of your own ignorance of the genre. Cartoonish rpgs and "emotional depth" (though SPM has about as much depth as a kiddie pool) are a dime a dozen.

Hell just look at Dragon Quest, the premier jrpg series.
 
Well I think we've gone off topic enough so I'll just conclude our discussion by saying that Super Paper Mario's story is godlike to me in a way that no non-Mario medium could overtake and I'm perfectly entitled to that opinion.
 
All I'm gonna say to that is opinions formed from lack of knowledge do you no favours.
 
Returning to NSMBDS, there's no doubt that many and possibly most fans appreciate it when Nintendo adds more to the plot of the game than just "Bowser has kidnapped Peach, time to go save her" and whilst having a shallow plot doesn't necessarily make a Super Mario platformer bad (look at how many people like Super Mario 64) it's one thing Nintendo could have done better.
 
Doubtful. Most people don't really care about the plot in Mario. As long as the game provides great gameplay, fun and interesting locals and nice visuals they'll be fine.
 
I went to SuperMarioT's "Why Paper Mario Changed" and look at the comments section and there were many people saying that they appreciated the story elements in Mario games.

I also went to the comments section of a full walkthrough video of Super Mario Galaxy 1 and there were quite a few people who said they liked it because of the story elements.
 
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I can already tell this is one discussion that's not going to do anything except go back and forth between people with rigid views on each side.

So, as a mod, I'm going to ask you to cease it.
 
Vivian said:
DS was the best NSMB game. But in my opinion it should've remained its own thing and 2D Mario should've moved on from that aesthetic afterward. Damnit when will we get a traditionally animated 2D Mario game using the promotional style?

Mario_group_2D.png


Imagine how beautiful a game using this style would be, yet they keep reusing the "3D models on pre-rendered tilesets" aesthetic for the 2D Mario games.
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Hell, there's a mockup right here. Even if the characters don't make too much facial expressions and end up being sterile, the novelty of the visual style will certainly deliver. It's such a highly requested artistic style for the series. I've seen them use that style for so long, why not adopt it into a full game? Or if you're focused on 3D, why not outsource to an indie studio that handles this?

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MiracleDinner said:
Well, the gameplay things like the wall kicks and triple jumps, I think almost all of them were carried onto the later NSMB games? So whilst they may have been new at the time (not counting Super Mario 64 and Sunshine,) it's not 2006 anymore.

As for the bosses, I preferred the fights in NSMBW where Kamek would add a twist on the second fight and the final boss wasn't utterly destroyable by packing a Mega Mushroom. I tend not to be too impressed whenever I see bosses that are just bigger versions of normal enemies. I believe Sticker star has this problem too.
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They were, but things that were introduced in Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World were also carried over. Again, we have Super Mario Bros. 3 to thank for world maps and many powerups while we have Super Mario World to thank for spin jump, alternate exits and Star Coins? Why not thank New Super Mario Bros. for the wall-jump and ground pound?

I also don't like bosses being bigger variants of normal enemies, but New Super Mario Bros. DS isn't exclusively this. We had Mummi Pokey, a Monty Mole in a tank, another kind of Lakitu, a fat fish thing, and Petey Piranha. Only the Goomba was really a bigger variant. Sure, the Mega Mushroom broke fights, but to be fair, you have to basically sacrifice a reserve item to complete the platforming level, and the fights themselves were already broken most of the time through the easily-obtainable Fire Flower. Boss fights were never a strong point of the Mario games, however, so the Mega Mushroom point isn't unique to New Super Mario Bros. DS.
 
El Zorro said:
the MINIGAMES in this game were
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You talking about the DS version? Well I think 64 DS has the superior version of WANTED! simply because the characters make more death noises when you tap them.

But yeah. They're still great.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
They were, but things that were introduced in Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World were also carried over. Again, we have Super Mario Bros. 3 to thank for world maps and many powerups while we have Super Mario World to thank for spin jump, alternate exits and Star Coins? Why not thank New Super Mario Bros. for the wall-jump and ground pound?

I also don't like bosses being bigger variants of normal enemies, but New Super Mario Bros. DS isn't exclusively this. We had Mummi Pokey, a Monty Mole in a tank, another kind of Lakitu, a fat fish thing, and Petey Piranha. Only the Goomba was really a bigger variant. Sure, the Mega Mushroom broke fights, but to be fair, you have to basically sacrifice a reserve item to complete the platforming level, and the fights themselves were already broken most of the time through the easily-obtainable Fire Flower. Boss fights were never a strong point of the Mario games, however, so the Mega Mushroom point isn't unique to New Super Mario Bros. DS.
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But the Switch version builds upon the DS version, even if not as much as I'd expect over 13 years. So, the DS version was somewhat good for its time but it has been overtaken.

Yes this isn't the worst game when it comes to bosses but I can't say I was amazed by them.
 
New Super Mario Bros Deluxe is not the same as new super mario bros ds.
 
And I'm saying it's not a "version" of NSMB DS. It's 2 different games with different level designs and power-ups.
 
But they are of exactly the same genre and have very similar aims, and NSMBUD doesn't downgrade the DS game in more than a handful of ways, so I think it's safe to call the Switch game an upgrade almost all-around.
 
NSMBUD doesn't have the Mega Mushroom or Blue Shell, it also doesn't really try to have a progressing plot (I know the DS version doesn't focus on plot either but at least you had the neat little twist of beating Bowser at the start, watching him melt into Dry Bowser, fighting Dry Bowser in World 8, then Bowser Jr. reviving Bowser for the final boss). Also I like how a few of the NSMBDS bosses were new designs rather than Boom Booms and Koopalings for the umpteenth time. Those are things it has that NSMBU doesn't (aside from you know, having different levels and a different map system)

Also, last I checked NSMBDS didn't spawn a viral meme of a certain power-up being used on Bowser that got old really quick
 
Vivian said:
DS was the best NSMB game. But in my opinion it should've remained its own thing and 2D Mario should've moved on from that aesthetic afterward. Damnit when will we get a traditionally animated 2D Mario game using the promotional style?

Mario_group_2D.png


Imagine how beautiful a game using this style would be, yet they keep reusing the "3D models on pre-rendered tilesets" aesthetic for the 2D Mario games.
Click to expand...
OMGOSH YAS!!!! I'd play the heck out of that!
Mcmadness said:
Only because of your own ignorance of the genre. Cartoonish rpgs and "emotional depth" (though SPM has about as much depth as a kiddie pool) are a dime a dozen.

Hell just look at Dragon Quest, the premier jrpg series.
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C'monnn, just because it's childish doesn't mean it's not in-depth! :O
Kids have full emotions too. SPM felt like revisiting imaginary play with friends at elementary&jr.high recess and tbh I enjoyed that nostalgia. It has also has a good balanced blend of silly & serious. I'll acknowledge a lot of its famed characters are at root made from generic rpg/anime tropes, it's still fun and creative.
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On the note of plot in mario platformers, yeah they're shallow, and I agree that is okay. Like you say, mario's charm is in its physics, music, and visuals. And uh, my absolute favorite thing of Mario franchise, the encompassing animated Expression/Personality. Second to that is the lore. SM64 was mentioned, its plot is shallow, but it's creative at least- Stealing star power to entrap people in a labyrinth of painting worlds? Mario might not have good plot but it has good fantasy elements, even if most of it were a lampshade whim, when it's all put together it's really neat. ^ w ^
 
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Vivian said:
NSMBUD doesn't have the Mega Mushroom or Blue Shell, it also doesn't really try to have a progressing plot (I know the DS version doesn't focus on plot either but at least you had the neat little twist of beating Bowser at the start, watching him melt into Dry Bowser, fighting Dry Bowser in World 8, then Bowser Jr. reviving Bowser for the final boss). Also I like how a few of the NSMBDS bosses were new designs rather than Boom Booms and Koopalings for the umpteenth time. Those are things it has that NSMBU doesn't (aside from you know, having different levels and a different map system)

Also, last I checked NSMBDS didn't spawn a viral meme of a certain power-up being used on Bowser that got old really quick
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Actually NSMB Wii was the first time I encountered the Koopalings and I didn't know what they were called since the game never told me. So they felt original to me back then.

Having learned that they are in fact heavily overused maybe, but I still think the Switch version is probably an upgrade in general (better graphics, better multiplayer, can be played on a home console, HD rumble, Yoshis)
 
Well back then they weren't overused. You could still count the amount of games they had been in mostly on one hand.
 
the gradual change of the koopalings from "holy shit they're back" in superstar saga to "again, really?" in nsmbu is a fascinating look at the way that even beloved fandom characters can become gradually considered overused if saturated constantly
 
used without much change being the big problem
 
I feel like the problem with the Koopalings is not over-saturation of them, it's the constant low-effort boss fights that made people quickly grew tired of them. In fact, the games that they appear as bosses just so happen to be safe, uninspired cash-ins of games, examples being New Super Mario Bros. 2 and New Super Mario Bros. U so it only exemplified the problems those games were facing. Not too sure on what I can say about Paper Mario: Color Splash though.

I hated fighting them in those games. They really did have atrocious boss fights. Even in Super Mario Bros. 3 and World, when they were first introduced, had atrocious boss fights. Dunno what they were going to do in Super Princess Peach but they got scrapped in favor of more unique bosses. I think people thought they were fine in Paper Jam and in Bowser's Minions/Bowser Jr.'s Journey because they had characterizations and interactions that people welcomed.
 
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