The Super Mario Bros. Movie (2023)

@The Superstar Saga, I think it's worth taking into consideration that animated movies, even the big budget ones, rarely surpass the 90 minute mark, and even then, only by a measly 10 minutes or so. Shrek, Shrek 2, Ice Age, and Toy Story, to name a few seminal CG animated films, are all 92 minutes or less, and I assume the considerable technological progress that has since occurred in the field of animation has only made production more costly, so executives really don't have much of an incentive to budget for an animated film at the same scale as a live-action film. I doubt that the age rating is a factor when they establish a film's duration in the pipeline, as Sausage Party, which is obviously anything but a children's movie, is also 90 minutes long much like its PG-rated homologues. Animated movies haven't diverted from this trend at all in recent years.

Good plot and characterisation don't really hinge on the movie's duration. Of course, your mileage may vary on what you consider compelling enough, as many stories are developed over entire books, serials, and TV series, but we have plenty of testimony to the fact that a talented team of directors, scriptwriters, and story artists can create something compelling even with the strictures of a 3D animated film. And in regards to your complaint regarding the Mario movie's story, would you expect a masterpiece from the people who came up with Teen Titans Go and those who wrote Big Fat Mommas or whatever that garbage was called? Probably not.
 
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The argument presented was age demographics are the reason for moive length, your point about technical considerations is different, but totally fair! I understand there are real world logistical reasons why longer animated films are more expensive, I agree. I also understand that these directors aren't known for masterpieces. But had things been done differently, could it have been a masterpiece? I think so.

Good characterization (more specifically better characterization) hinges on duration in this situation because the pacing is too fast to give the characters enough time to really interact. The two remedies would be either:

A) Cut down on the action scenes so there's more room in 1h30m to show the characters interacting.
B) Expand the film to 2h30m so there's enough character interaction to flesh out more of a story.

I'd be fine with either, but I think the second option of expanding duration would be preferable for those who enjoyed all the action scenes.

To be clear, I loved the movie, it just had the potential to be so much better.
 
imo i don't think a mario movie without action scenes is a good pitch. the entire appeal of the franchise lies in its action-adventure nature. to try and drive the point home, i'll say that even the slower, more puzzle oriented entries in this franchise are just as rompy, where some games have you kill viruses with weaponised medication (Dr. Mario) and others have you guide your vain capitalist produce through a complex and often vicious market (Mario vs. Donkey Kong).

mario is versatile, but he's a born jumper and stomper first and foremost, and that philosophy echoes most profoundly. a plot-heavy movie just seems unfitting for the character.
 
Koopa con Carne said:
a plot-heavy movie just seems unfitting for the character.
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I agree Mario should always be displaying his upbeat and active personality, but I can't agree with this. Mario has had plot-heavy games, so a plot-heavy movie seems like a good idea to me. Movies are way more of a story driven medium than games, so if there can be games with grand, dramatic and high-stakes stories, I think there can be a movie too. I'm not sure it would have been a good idea to go that route for THIS movie, given it's an origin story, but I absolutely want sequels to start taking pages from Mario's more story-driven outings.
 
The Superstar Saga said:
The first Harry Potter was rated PG, the same age rating as the Super Mario Bros. Movie.

Young children were a massive demographic regardless, with Harry and Hermione dominating as the most popular Halloween costumes they wore when Trick or Treating in the 2000s. The same way Harry Potter was a family film for all ages, I think the Super Mario Bros. Movie could benefit from that too.

Star Wars, a series who's largest audience was kids buying toys, "All the money is in the action figures"- George Lucas, has films over 2 hours.
  • A New Hope— 2 hr 5 min (125 min)
  • The Empire Strikes Back— 2 hr 7 min (127 min)
  • Return of the Jedi— 2 hr 16 min (136 min)
  • The Phantom Menace— 2 hr 16 min (136 min)
  • Attack of the Clones— 2 hr 22 min (142 min)
  • Revenge of the Sith— 2 hr 20 min (140 min)
  • The Force Awakens— 2 hr 15 min (135 min)
  • The Last Jedi-- 2 hr 33 min (153 min)
  • The Rise of Skywalker— 2 hr 22 min (142 min)
The argument that kids series cannot have successful 2.5 hour long films, has been proven wrong by history. Even very recent history, with the Sonic The Hedgehog 2 movie being just over 2 hours.
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Again, these movies were not intended for the even younger ages that the Mario movie is aimed at. The Mario movie is meant to be aimed at REALLY young ages. The PG rating is just due to all the cartoon violence.

And the 2nd Sonic movie is a prime example of why a longer movie would be a stupid idea since it's full of nonsense that isn't funny, doesn't go anywhere and is mostly just irritating and just pads out the running time. If you are trying to improve the film you should give a good example for the argument, not that.

Plus you forget the other part of my argument, the source material. Mario is not a series that lends itself well to longer films. It's characters and plots are all extremely basic and trying to cut out most of the action and increase the length time in a vain attempt to elaborate on something that has no inherent depth is just about the best way I can think of to bore your audience.
 
Just wait for a sequel bros. They unnecessarily split up movies by part one and part two anyway.

Fawfulthegreat64 said:
but I absolutely want sequels to start taking pages from Mario's more story-driven outing
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I already know what you're talking about but like only one game is this epic drama, the rest are very simple plots that can be in 90 minutes by Illumination movies.
 
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Mcmadness said:
Again, these movies were not intended for the even younger ages that the Mario movie is aimed at. The Mario movie is meant to be aimed at REALLY young ages. The PG rating is just due to all the cartoon violence.

And the 2nd Sonic movie is a prime example of why a longer movie would be a stupid idea since it's full of nonsense that isn't funny, doesn't go anywhere and is mostly just irritating and just pads out the running time. If you are trying to improve the film you should give a good example for the argument, not that.

Plus you forget the other part of my argument, the source material. Mario is not a series that lends itself well to longer films. It's characters and plots are all extremely basic and trying to cut out most of the action and increase the length time in a vain attempt to elaborate on something that has no inherent depth is just about the best way I can think of to bore your audience.
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It's just an assumption though that the Super Mario Bros. Movie was meant for younger kids than the first Harry Potter. The only evidence to go off of is them both being PG with massive numbers of young children watching both, which puts them both in the family friendly ballpark of kids movies.

Sonic The Hedgehog 2, I think it could have been much better with more Sonic-type character scene replacing the padding human scenes like the wedding, while still being 2.5 hours. Make the most of the duration, rather than squandering it.

Action is important, I completely agree! Which is why expanding the duration could allow for both action and story to shine, is the better remedy than cutting back on action scenes. Both action and story are important.

For example, one of the best action scenes in the Super Mario Bros. Movie at the very end, had a certain character...
...had a certain character use a trash can lid from a dumpster, those who watched the movie will know what the lid was used for and why it was a great scene.
The scene felt amazing. It would not have felt amazing, if it wasn't that one specific character doing it, who showed both character growth, and because of the relationships established earlier on. It would have been a completely vacuous scene without that prior story the movie had. Story clearly does matter.



That great scene near the end landed well thanks to decent storytelling, but it also would have landed so much better if the storytelling prior went even deeper.
 
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On another note, RPG fans might have gotten indirect (probably unintentional) references!

The animation in the movie is so fluid that some of Bowser's angry facial expressions appear ripped straight from Bowletta's angry expressions from Mario & Luigi.

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His expression is almost identical to that and a few other Bowletta expressions in some scenes.

Bowser has an extremely cartoonishly floppy mouth in the movie. Love it.
 
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The Superstar Saga said:
It's just an assumption though that the Super Mario Bros. Movie was meant for younger kids than the first Harry Potter. The only evidence to go off of is them both being PG with massive numbers of young children watching both, which puts them both in the family friendly ballpark of kids movies.
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Except that it's not at all an assumption. Mario is inherently meant for people of all ages. Harry Potter the novels are meant for older children. They are considered "advanced reading" for children ages 10 and up and the movies reflect this.

So again it's a bad comparison and as was mentioned earlier animated movies are almost never over 90 minutes. The movie's length is just fine for what it is meant to be and if you expected anything more than that then thats a you problem.
 
Mcmadness I wouldn't really use the it's for kids argument for the overall length of the movie since we do get a lot of kids material spanning huge series, just take a look at books and many television shows. The writing is the thing that needs to carry the entertainment.

I still think 90 minutes is perfectly fine for a Mario movie tho. Mario isnt the franchise to be telling those types of stories, there are so many kids franchises to love out there that can benefit with increased screen time.
 
Mcmadness said:
Except that it's not at all an assumption. Mario is inherently meant for people of all ages. Harry Potter the novels are meant for older children. They are considered "advanced reading" for children ages 10 and up and the movies reflect this.

So again it's a bad comparison and as was mentioned earlier animated movies are almost never over 90 minutes. The movie's length is just fine for what it is meant to be and if you expected anything more than that then thats a you problem.
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And the difficulty of older Super Mario Bros games is something for children ages 10+ (7 year olds would struggle at beating the older games) with even the cartoon violence of the recent Mario Odyssey being rated 10+. By the same logic "Mario games are meant for older children".

Doesn't change the fact that a massive numbers of 7 year olds played Super Mario Bros, the same way massive numbers of 7 year olds picked Harry Potter books during library period at school and saw the movie. Which is why we consider both to be for all ages.

As for what it is meant to be? It is clearly meant to be a simple fun movie that's just okay. I don't deny that. But to say it's a "problem" to have constructive criticism for how an okay movie could have been bettered as a masterpiece, is silly. Constructive criticism is not a "problem".
 
I mean idk I view Mario in the same way as Captain Underpants, and I think Mario is closer thematically to that than say Star Wars or Henry Puffer.
 
Holy Crow! I never knew Saberspark could be so negative. Why is he saying this?! I thought I trusted him, and now he might be off my weekly Youtube viewings. I'll be sure not to watch this next week, that's for sure…
 
I'm pretty sure he's being ironic
 
N.Trance said:
Holy Crow! I never knew Saberspark could be so negative. Why is he saying this?! I thought I trusted him, and now he might be off my weekly Youtube viewings. I'll be sure not to watch this next week, that's for sure…
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I think he's being satirical with the thumbnail, quoting other people.

I had a good chuckle at 2:02 where he says " 'Uh! uh! uh! Why are you being so hard on the Mario movie? It's a kids film!' And it's like, shut up, I don't want to hear that either. I don't want to get into this weird debate of adults vs kids and who is it for" I wonder if he saw this thread.
 
Mcmadness said:
Plus you forget the other part of my argument, the source material. Mario is not a series that lends itself well to longer films. It's characters and plots are all extremely basic and trying to cut out most of the action and increase the length time in a vain attempt to elaborate on something that has no inherent depth is just about the best way I can think of to bore your audience.
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I think this movie would have benefited from being longer as its shorter time cuts things that would very much have substance. Like Luigi having a role in the middle of the movie where maybe he tries to hatch a plan to break everyone out of their cage somehow, even if it fails, leading to him having more courage at the end. Toad could have had more screen time too. I still liked the Mario Movie but it could have had more maybe not depth exactly, but fleshing out.
 
The Superstar Saga said:
And the difficulty of older Super Mario Bros games is something for children ages 10+ (7 year olds would struggle at beating the older games) with even the cartoon violence of the recent Mario Odyssey being rated 10+. By the same logic "Mario games are meant for older children".

Doesn't change the fact that a massive numbers of 7 year olds played Super Mario Bros, the same way massive numbers of 7 year olds picked Harry Potter books during library period at school and saw the movie. Which is why we consider both to be for all ages.

As for what it is meant to be? It is clearly meant to be a simple fun movie that's just okay. I don't deny that. But to say it's a "problem" to have constructive criticism for how an okay movie could have been bettered as a masterpiece, is silly. Constructive criticism is not a "problem".
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Super Mario is definitely not aimed at 10 and above. It has cartoon violence that gives it that rating but the games themselves are clearly meant for ALL ages. Which is not the same as a book. If a kid can't read the book then thats it. A Mario game they could easily play and have fun with even if they have trouble beating it, which they would. They are kids, I was like 4 years old when I first played SMB and unsurprisingly I was bad at it.

If we were going to make a comparison to books then Super Mario is more in line with picture books then Harry Potter.

Constructive criticism is one thing but asking it to double it's length is not constructive. That is the complete anti-thesis to something that is simple and fun. Doesn't help that good animation is expensive as hell so I doubt they are going to make any movie that long. Not even Disney makes their animated movies that long and they have way more money than Illumination does.
 
Mcmadness said:
Super Mario is definitely not aimed at 10 and above. It has cartoon violence that gives it that rating but the games themselves are clearly meant for ALL ages. Which is not the same as a book. If a kid can't read the book then thats it. A Mario game they could easily play and have fun with even if they have trouble beating it, which they would. They are kids, I was like 4 years old when I first played SMB and unsurprisingly I was bad at it.

If we were going to make a comparison to books then Super Mario is more in line with picture books then Harry Potter.

Constructive criticism is one thing but asking it to double it's length is not constructive. That is the complete anti-thesis to something that is simple and fun. Doesn't help that good animation is expensive as hell so I doubt they are going to make any movie that long. Not even Disney makes their animated movies that long and they have way more money than Illumination does.
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They're both for all ages to enjoy despite the difficulty, that's my point. Having trouble beating Super Mario Bros and having family help out was still an experience kids enjoyed, the same as picking out Harry Potter at library period in school or having it read to you if its too hard. I don't see the need to split hairs on what constitutes a kids series when anyone can recognize both are for all ages, Illumination and Warner Brothers know that parents will buy their kids blankets, toys, Halloween costumes, etc when they make these movies because their kids are part of the demographic.

When one of the major criticisms is the pacing being too fast with not enough time spent on characters, increasing the length is absolutely constructive.

Constructive means building upon something as it exists to be even better. Let's take one of the best scenes at the end, we can call it "trash can lid" scene to avoid spoilers. I complimented it as a great scene and suggested how it could be better. The action scene lands great because it depends on the existing character relationship shown earlier in the film. If we take that mediocre character relationship in the movie and expand it to be better with more screen time to further develop it, that great "trash can lid" action scene would land even better. Risen King Chrom gave an example of one such way and it doesn't have to be that one suggestion, other scenarios could have been done too.

If the film had subscribed to total minimalism, the "trash can lid" scene wouldn't have landed at all because the character relationships behind it wouldn't get any screen time. If it was only just for 4 year olds, why not just have non-stop action scenes and pretty colors from start to finish instead?

As Harry Potter has shown, you can have a movie fun for all ages, that also offers better character dynamics and deeper story accommodated by a longer run time.

I acknowledge that the Super Mario Bros. Movie is a simple film as the reality of what it to expect, not what the spirit of an all ages movie has to be limited to.
 
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Mcmadness said:
If we were going to make a comparison to books then Super Mario is more in line with picture books then Harry Potter.
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Disagree it's more like Roald Dahl than picture books (and not the very short novels like Giraffe Pelly and Me or Fantastic Mr. Fox more like The Witches or The BFG).

The Superstar Saga said:
I wonder if he saw this thread.
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Of course he didn't, the kids movie thing is a common argument.
 
Hey guys. I just got back from seeing the Mario movie, and I'm ready to share my thoughts with you!

I really liked how much of a powerhouse Princess Peach was during the movie. Her action scenes had me blown away, and I thought her backstory was pretty cute. It was also cute to see Baby Mario and Baby Luigi within a flashback, and I was glad that Luigi could join the fight after he and the other prisoners were freed. The Rainbow Road scene was amazing, and a lot of the actors did a great job voicing their characters. The references were a nice touch, and by the end, I was speechless!

However, there are a few things I didn't like about it. Cranky Kong's VA didn't sound old at all, and I wish they could've picked someone who was capable of doing an old-man voice. Aron Tager did a good job voicing him in the DKC cartoon, so I was disappointed with Fred Armisen's performance. The story could've been a bit deeper, so that certain characters (especially Toad) could be more fleshed out. I also thought that the real world songs during certain scenes were not needed, and could've been replaced with music from the games, so that everything could flow nicely instead of feeling out of place.
 
I saw the movie last night and here are my thoughts on it. I do have to sorta agree with the critics that the story was a bit too light for my tastes, everything happens way too quickly and the film really feels like 90 minutes is a tight window for whatever they're trying to do. Yes, I do get that Mario isn't that much of a story-centric franchise and that this is a kids movie but some of the scenes DO have attempts of emotional moments that don't last all much too long to leave much of an impact because the film just ushers you to the next scene, it has no time to slow down and have like, small talks for character development or something. References can't really carry the movie on its own, and this is me speaking as someone who got and understood practically all references.

Save for one scene which left me in utter happiness and left the most emotional impact any movie can ever do. I literally said "OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH" in the theater the moment they showed Baby Luigi and Baby Mario coming in to save him!

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This is utterly unbelievable that the Baby Bros. get to appear in the movie, and not just like a picture but an entire animated sequence. I had my doubts of Baby Luigi even appearing at all but not only does he appear, Baby Luigi gets his overalls outfit, his design is extremely accurate to the games, and he actually gets slightly more screen time than Baby Mario! I freaking love everything about that scene except for the bully who destroyed Baby Luigi's block castle he deserves to die! Also they changed the sole color of Baby Luigi's shoes.

Shame I cannot use this pic of Baby Luigi as an avatar because spoiler but now I felt how people felt whenever they see Mario in IIllumination's movie. I really want to rewatch this scene again but I'll now have to wait for a DVD release, plus a DVD release can get me some much better quality images.

Plus they even threw in Baby Peach as an added bonus!

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That was an actual surprise, I had no idea she was in the movie before I watched it.

That being said, the light story, lack of character development, and hyperactive pacing isn't bad enough to drag down the merits of the movie especially for Mario fans to watch. It's a very great time with a lot of fun scenes. It doesn't even feel like a product by Illumination at some points, I was expecting some more zany slapstick humor or something. Anyone who is a Mario fan should absolutely see the movie, I cannot recommend it enough for them. But you will feel how light the story is and how quickly the film goes by.

I still don't think increasing the runtime will solve its problems. This is mainly a writing issue, probably of having too many ideas. I think they're trying to test the waters with this movie before going all out with character development or world-building.
 
I don't know if you all would consider this to be spoiler-ish, but I'm gonna try to be as vague as possible here regarding my thoughts on the film. So this is a sort of warning leading into my thoughts.

I finally got to see it on Saturday (yesterday) with my girlfriend and a good friend - all three of us are long-time fans of Nintendo and Mario. We all three enjoyed it immensely and honestly while it is rushed a bit, I don't see it as anything inherently bad because again the intended target audience is kids and they have a shorter attention span that doesn't need much exposition for them to go with it. The rush is in how quickly characters develop their trust/kinship, but I'd also argue they have two montages and a couple of bonding moments in them that would help the situation and bond the characters closer together. I feel like all characterizations and the voices were fantastic, the animation was top-notch, and I really like the references to all the Mario media out there (including the '93 Live Action film). I'd give it a solid 8.5 out of 10, and I intend to rewatch it again at some point in the future. Really happy with Bowser's character, Jack Black did a fantastic job of giving a character performance that is exactly how I pictured he would be in the behavioral department.

All in all, my group and I loved it. I think it is well done and deserves to be celebrated as a success.
 
Ray Trace said:
Save for one scene which left me in utter happiness and left the most emotional impact any movie can ever do. I literally said "OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH" in the theater the moment they showed Baby Luigi and Baby Mario coming in to save him!

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This is utterly unbelievable that the Baby Bros. get to appear in the movie, and not just like a picture but an entire animated sequence. I had my doubts of Baby Luigi even appearing at all but not only does he appear, Baby Luigi gets his overalls outfit, his design is extremely accurate to the games, and he actually gets slightly more screen time than Baby Mario! I freaking love everything about that scene except for the bully who destroyed Baby Luigi's block castle he deserves to die! Also they changed the sole color of Baby Luigi's shoes.
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Hopefully hinting that there was a reason was vague enough to not give it away!
 
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