Overrated Mario Characters
- Thread starter ObieStar
- Start date
- Pronouns
- she/her
- MarioWiki
- Mario
I can see the appeal of Paper Mario's partners but I have not much attachment for them to want them to appear in other games.
- Pronouns
- She/They
- MarioWiki
- Fawfulthegreat64
Toad, Yoshi, the Koopa Troop in general. Though I still enjoy Bowser and many of his minions, and Yoshi is OK, but neither are the best in the series. Toad is hot trash lol
- Pronouns
- she/her
- MarioWiki
- Mario
I've seen a lot of contempt for Toad and barely see any sort of people that stan for him. Toad doesn't top popularity polls, though he does rank rather highly. I'm a Toad fan.
I'm the lil bro.
I'm hooked on the brothers!
- Pronouns
- kit/he
Mostly I feel this way about the partners in the first game. Besides Parakarry and Bow, I don't find them particularly... memorable? I know people really like Lakilester, but personally I don't see his appeal very much. I do think Parakarry is hilarious and Bow is to this day one of the most unique partners of both games that have them, but otherwise I mostly think it's just their designs that stand out.
TTYD's partners are overall better but I do think like 64 it mostly has standouts that would be the only ones I'd seriously be itching to hear again (if you think I'm referring to Vivian, I totally am).
I'm pretty sure Toad has a massive hatedom? If anything I think he's overhated. Also, imagine your bravery in saying Yoshi and Bowser are overrated. lol I respectfully disagree, but I like seeing a different opinion.
Absolutely bold as heck here, too. But SO true for the Koopalings (besides Bowser Jr.). I think their designs are cool but I feel like they haven't been fleshed out enough for me to care much about them. The fact that their inclusion is demanded in games bothers me because they're usually just put in for fan service rather than to legitimately touch upon anything related to them; as someone with a pretty big family, I feel like there's a lot of untapped potential in having so many siblings interact, but I don't think there's a single game in which they do for a lengthy period of time (Paper Jam is the only game that comes close to this).
I do disagree for Wario and Bowser Jr., though. Bowser Jr. has been fleshed out quite a bit in his numerous appearances and I like how he's very smart, capable, and resourceful while still being very heavily child-coded, what with his somewhat bratty attitude. I also find it deeply interesting how lonely he is and he's the only character of any of Bowser's children to have his feelings about having Bowser as a parent explored, including the fact that a lot of his relationships are artificially created because of being Bowser's son and the lack of a mother in his life. As for Wario, he's just a pretty unique character for the Mario universe. While the sense of humor that surrounds him is personally not my cup of tea, I would not go as far as to say he's overrated. I think he adds some much needed variety, and I find the fact that he and Luigi share no animosity interesting.
I've thought this for a long time, but I think Waluigi is definitely overrated. Now before you come at me, hear me out: I think as he is right now, the character has no substance. We know very little about him other than the fact he feels overshadowed by Luigi (which could work as an interesting trait if they fleshed this out more as it would be a reflection of Luigi, but to be honest the only usage I've seen of it is just to make Waluigi sad which I'm not sure how to feel about) and that he cheats at things. He could be a cool example of a character who sabotages his own chances to be well-liked (as a mirror to Luigi, who kinda... didn't have any reason to not be well-liked but remained kind despite how he felt about it, and eventually gained popularity), but as it stands he's really not given enough time dedicated to him for this aspect of him to get really explored.
I also think Daisy is pretty overrated, and the main reason for this is often descriptions of her personality are mostly in contrast to the other princesses, because other than that she doesn't have much substance. She's pretty one-note, "the tomboy" of the girls. I'm also reaaaally not a big fan of the fact she got redesigned. Her original design made her stand out more, and while I do think her new design isn't bad, she could've definitely kept aspects of her character with the old one she had. This is another case of feeling like the character has potential but because she's not fleshed out, I just don't really care for her much? I also am not the biggest fan of Luiaisy either which likely puts me off the character more, mostly because Luiaisy definitely feels like a "pair the spares" sort of situation which is now unnecessary given Luigi has more options than he had back when she was first made.
Toka Hebizuka
玲瓏とした歔欷
- Pronouns
- SHE／HER
rosalina because I still hold a grudge against her for being in literally every Mario game from her debut until Odyssey (in which I'm pretty sure she still had a cameo, and then continued to have fairly consistent spin-of appearances). and then Smash because fuck it, she clearly wasn't playable in enough games already.
Mcmadness
The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
She's not in Odyssey.
There is concept art of her but she ultimately doesn't appear.
I find myself wondering how one overrates an entire faction of characters.
There is concept art of her but she ultimately doesn't appear.
I find myself wondering how one overrates an entire faction of characters.
- Pronouns
- She/Them
- MarioWiki
- Cosmic Cowboy
I actually agree because Rosa only had a big role in galaxy and now she's in every spinoff, she's kinda like how Metal Mario was in the 90's (except Rosa isn't as lazy of an inclusion as Metal, I'll give her that)
- Pronouns
- She/her
- MarioWiki
- Ray Trace
I'm not really a huge fan of using the word "overrated" to describe popular characters. People don't intentionally like a character because of group bandwagoning, they tend to form judgement based entirely on personal experiences, tastes, preferences, and anecdotes and that term is a bit...condescending to say the least. There's typically some sense of bitterness and jealousy in there, and I'm not really a huge fan of it, especially since many fans don't choose to like a character just to induce bitterness on others.
I am in agreement that using the label "overrated" is very provocative by nature, because it invites negative connotations on that character and in this way, throws shade on those who do like the character.
In any case, I see that the most common suspects (and in my opinion, the most disrespected Mario characters) are already brought up. I am of course talking about Daisy and Waluigi, who I noticed are the only ones that have a more noticeable dislike for them, and not even minor characters like many baby characters or any WarioWare character got this sort of treatment. For one, I don't think a character who does not get to express themselves as thoroughly as any major Mario character like Wario means that there's no reason to like them for what they were able to show. For example, I think that while Daisy does not have a terribly deep characterisation, I still like the variety that her presence offered to the Mario series offered (and think that making her a standard character in spinoffs is a brilliant decision).
Even then, it's difficult to argue against how Geno is rated way above his merits. He's practically only appeared in one game. While that game is great, he's also really only designed for that game, yet he's still one of the most wanted characters in Smash (I daresay he's more known to Smash fans than to Mario fans). The reason being that he's got a lot going against him, like the fact that he's a third-party character (so Square-Enix would be more interested in prioritising more popular characters like Hero (DQ) and Cloud, and I think Moogle would have a higher chance), and how he's a minor character in the grand scheme of the Mario franchise (so if a Mario character makes it, Geno's on the very low side of things). To put it this way: he's great at what he does, but his importance is aggrandised.
Thank you for reading.
In any case, I see that the most common suspects (and in my opinion, the most disrespected Mario characters) are already brought up. I am of course talking about Daisy and Waluigi, who I noticed are the only ones that have a more noticeable dislike for them, and not even minor characters like many baby characters or any WarioWare character got this sort of treatment. For one, I don't think a character who does not get to express themselves as thoroughly as any major Mario character like Wario means that there's no reason to like them for what they were able to show. For example, I think that while Daisy does not have a terribly deep characterisation, I still like the variety that her presence offered to the Mario series offered (and think that making her a standard character in spinoffs is a brilliant decision).
Even then, it's difficult to argue against how Geno is rated way above his merits. He's practically only appeared in one game. While that game is great, he's also really only designed for that game, yet he's still one of the most wanted characters in Smash (I daresay he's more known to Smash fans than to Mario fans). The reason being that he's got a lot going against him, like the fact that he's a third-party character (so Square-Enix would be more interested in prioritising more popular characters like Hero (DQ) and Cloud, and I think Moogle would have a higher chance), and how he's a minor character in the grand scheme of the Mario franchise (so if a Mario character makes it, Geno's on the very low side of things). To put it this way: he's great at what he does, but his importance is aggrandised.
Thank you for reading.
I'm the lil bro.
I'm hooked on the brothers!
- Pronouns
- kit/he
Given that I got a bit of an indirect response to my post in here, I'd like to rephrase my initial post (though I'll still leave it up there, for context's sake).
Firstly, I completely understand where you guys are coming from on the word "overrated" being used in condescension. I also think, as a result of this, the way I used it made it seem a bit more loaded than it was meant, at least in my case. I feel this way specifically because of two things that were said after me:
I don't dislike Daisy, Waluigi, or the Koopalings, nor do I think that there's no reason to like them. This is my mistake for not being clear in my wording, and not something I blame either of you for. I'll be a little clearer on what I meant for each of them. My relationship with Daisy in particular is complicated, so I'll get to that one last. (I also will say this doesn't excuse my more callous tone earlier. This was taken on because I was speaking more personally before, from my own perspective. This post will be a bit more directly targeted rather than off-the-cuff musing.)
With the Koopalings, I think they have a lot of potential, as I stated in my main post. That's the thing though, it's just that, potential. I admit, there is a little bit of a sad tinge to my opinion on them in particular, because I feel they are being brought into games specifically for fan service rather than to actually flesh them out as characters. This is no fault of the fans, this is a decision that the creators of the games are continuing to make, but as a result I find it hard to see what level of complexity that other people see they have currently. Waluigi is around about in the same boat, where I think there's something there that can be used well but often has not been. I bear no ill will toward the fans of either of them, but I do think suggesting that they're deep and meaningful staples to the Mario universe is kind of... stretching it, right now. That's not to say I wouldn't like that to change, either. In this way, I mean they're "overrated" in the fact that they're considered to be staples similarly to, say, Luigi, when I don't think that's the case at all. Still, I do think this isn't the most appropriate word to use, and I should have made a finer point of that within my first post.
This is the one I wanted to quote when talking about Daisy in particular, because I do think there's a point to be had here that bitterness may have affected my initial tone, but I'd like to have a proper chance to explain myself in this one.
I made a small point of this, but I do not like the way that Daisy's design was changed. It rubs me the wrong way, a lot. I don't dislike her new design, and I can see why others like it, but it makes me sad that the old design was sacrificed in favor of it. In addition to that, the feeling I have toward Daisy in particular is not directed at most of her fans; I actually like some aspects of her myself, and I don't agree with those who find her annoying. Rather, my problem is that she is always compared to Peach and Rosalina all the time, because she's more tomboyish than them. I see it said over and over again that she deserved more spots in modern games than Rosalina, that Rosalina is taking all of the attention off of her, that she's more interesting and Rosalina is "basic". The fact that Daisy is better because she's a tomboy is something I've seen so many times over the years.
I really, really don't want to compare Rosalina and Daisy directly like this, because I'm not about that (especially with two very prominent Mario women). It's personal preference; some people prefer Daisy's personality type and her simplicity, and that's completely fine. But I have to point out that Rosalina's depth and the massive effect she has is undersold to prop Daisy up. I feel like... It's not too much to ask that Rosalina keep her relevance while giving Daisy more. I do not believe she is "more deserving" of the spotlight than Rosalina, not in the slightest. There are things to like about each of them, and that's why I made no such comparison earlier on. I'm sorry, though, that my post implied otherwise.
I, uh, still maintain my position of "pair the spares" with Luiaisy, though. It's totally fine if you like the ship (I even think it's a little cute) but it's hard to shake the feeling of it.
Now, none of this is directed at anyone in the thread. People disliking Rosalina doesn't bother me, not really. It's more just a confession of what may have influenced the way I talked about this in my first post.
Firstly, I completely understand where you guys are coming from on the word "overrated" being used in condescension. I also think, as a result of this, the way I used it made it seem a bit more loaded than it was meant, at least in my case. I feel this way specifically because of two things that were said after me:
I don't dislike Daisy, Waluigi, or the Koopalings, nor do I think that there's no reason to like them. This is my mistake for not being clear in my wording, and not something I blame either of you for. I'll be a little clearer on what I meant for each of them. My relationship with Daisy in particular is complicated, so I'll get to that one last. (I also will say this doesn't excuse my more callous tone earlier. This was taken on because I was speaking more personally before, from my own perspective. This post will be a bit more directly targeted rather than off-the-cuff musing.)
With the Koopalings, I think they have a lot of potential, as I stated in my main post. That's the thing though, it's just that, potential. I admit, there is a little bit of a sad tinge to my opinion on them in particular, because I feel they are being brought into games specifically for fan service rather than to actually flesh them out as characters. This is no fault of the fans, this is a decision that the creators of the games are continuing to make, but as a result I find it hard to see what level of complexity that other people see they have currently. Waluigi is around about in the same boat, where I think there's something there that can be used well but often has not been. I bear no ill will toward the fans of either of them, but I do think suggesting that they're deep and meaningful staples to the Mario universe is kind of... stretching it, right now. That's not to say I wouldn't like that to change, either. In this way, I mean they're "overrated" in the fact that they're considered to be staples similarly to, say, Luigi, when I don't think that's the case at all. Still, I do think this isn't the most appropriate word to use, and I should have made a finer point of that within my first post.
This is the one I wanted to quote when talking about Daisy in particular, because I do think there's a point to be had here that bitterness may have affected my initial tone, but I'd like to have a proper chance to explain myself in this one.
I made a small point of this, but I do not like the way that Daisy's design was changed. It rubs me the wrong way, a lot. I don't dislike her new design, and I can see why others like it, but it makes me sad that the old design was sacrificed in favor of it. In addition to that, the feeling I have toward Daisy in particular is not directed at most of her fans; I actually like some aspects of her myself, and I don't agree with those who find her annoying. Rather, my problem is that she is always compared to Peach and Rosalina all the time, because she's more tomboyish than them. I see it said over and over again that she deserved more spots in modern games than Rosalina, that Rosalina is taking all of the attention off of her, that she's more interesting and Rosalina is "basic". The fact that Daisy is better because she's a tomboy is something I've seen so many times over the years.
I really, really don't want to compare Rosalina and Daisy directly like this, because I'm not about that (especially with two very prominent Mario women). It's personal preference; some people prefer Daisy's personality type and her simplicity, and that's completely fine. But I have to point out that Rosalina's depth and the massive effect she has is undersold to prop Daisy up. I feel like... It's not too much to ask that Rosalina keep her relevance while giving Daisy more. I do not believe she is "more deserving" of the spotlight than Rosalina, not in the slightest. There are things to like about each of them, and that's why I made no such comparison earlier on. I'm sorry, though, that my post implied otherwise.
I, uh, still maintain my position of "pair the spares" with Luiaisy, though. It's totally fine if you like the ship (I even think it's a little cute) but it's hard to shake the feeling of it.
Now, none of this is directed at anyone in the thread. People disliking Rosalina doesn't bother me, not really. It's more just a confession of what may have influenced the way I talked about this in my first post.
Wintertime Peach
King Bowser
Waluigi and Daisy. They never do anything heroic or noteworthy, all they do is play sports and attend parties since they only exist to pad out rosters, and yet they are surprisingly popular. Like, they're almost on par with the main heroes and it's pretty disappointing. :/
(I'm so sorry, winstein)
(I'm so sorry, winstein)
- Pronouns
- She/They
- MarioWiki
- Fawfulthegreat64
I forgot to mention her. She's also overrated to me. Idk, she yells louder? Otherwise she seems like "not Peach" to me. I also hate how she's everyone's go-to pairing for Luigi to the point where the clickbait channels just assume they're a canon couple. She's also the only character original to Super Mario Land, a game full of very stand-out designs, to return as part of the main cast. Coincidentally, she's the least stand-out design in that game, being a damsel in a dress that waits in the room after the boss. Like a certain other character I know who was introduced that way. I'm just saying if they can bring her back, why can't they do the same with Tatanga? We could use more villains unrelated to Bowser (which ties into my reasoning for finding the Koopa Troop overrated) and he's even from a main series game (though I disagree that that should be such a rigid requirement).
Certain... passionate fans of Daisy have also played a role in souring my view of her.
Minty
Mushroom Attendant
- Pronouns
- She/her
Some overrated characters in my opinion are:
Daisy: She has an entire fan wiki dedicated to her, she only appears in spinoffs, and she is very loud and mean in my opinion. I do still like her, but I've been wanting to main her less over the years for various reasons. The fact that they brought back her tan from the N64 days and are trying a southern accent with her voice (she does this when it's her turn in Superstars) means she's currently having an identity crisis and Nintendo wants to harken back to her roots, but I don't think it's going to help her in the long run.
DK: He's just one of the dumbest characters in the franchise. I get people like him because he isn't as evil as Bowser, but unlike Bowser, his causes for evil never changes. He always goes after Pauline if the first thing he wants (whether that be Mini Mario toys or a Mini Pauline) isn't an option. I also don't like the fact that he has an entire hoard of bananas that could be completely rotten right now.
Wario: His relevancy has worsened over the years. Back in the day, he had lots of games dedicated to him and appeared in main series Mario games, but now he only appears in spin-offs and Warioware. Wario Land has ended and he no longer makes appearances in the main games, so many people have started liking him less because of it. I also don't like his gross-out humour that much.
Waluigi: He only appears in spinoffs, and his role in them has faded in recent years. He still has good chemistry with Wario, but he hasn't had any role in the story of these spin-offs since DDR: Mario Mix. Yes, he had a big role in Aces, but after that he went back to his usual role that he's been doing since before that game came out.
The Koopalings: I like Wendy, but I feel that her and the others have been hogging roster space from more relevant and fresh choices. They also do not have a lot of character development, and only recent titles like Paper Jam, Color Splash, and Bowser Jr.'s Journey, as well as some comics and cartoons, have actually given them personality. Had Nintendo done this from the start, perhaps they would've had a great relationship with Bowser and his son, as well as having their own interests and dreams that they could work towards.
Daisy: She has an entire fan wiki dedicated to her, she only appears in spinoffs, and she is very loud and mean in my opinion. I do still like her, but I've been wanting to main her less over the years for various reasons. The fact that they brought back her tan from the N64 days and are trying a southern accent with her voice (she does this when it's her turn in Superstars) means she's currently having an identity crisis and Nintendo wants to harken back to her roots, but I don't think it's going to help her in the long run.
DK: He's just one of the dumbest characters in the franchise. I get people like him because he isn't as evil as Bowser, but unlike Bowser, his causes for evil never changes. He always goes after Pauline if the first thing he wants (whether that be Mini Mario toys or a Mini Pauline) isn't an option. I also don't like the fact that he has an entire hoard of bananas that could be completely rotten right now.
Wario: His relevancy has worsened over the years. Back in the day, he had lots of games dedicated to him and appeared in main series Mario games, but now he only appears in spin-offs and Warioware. Wario Land has ended and he no longer makes appearances in the main games, so many people have started liking him less because of it. I also don't like his gross-out humour that much.
Waluigi: He only appears in spinoffs, and his role in them has faded in recent years. He still has good chemistry with Wario, but he hasn't had any role in the story of these spin-offs since DDR: Mario Mix. Yes, he had a big role in Aces, but after that he went back to his usual role that he's been doing since before that game came out.
The Koopalings: I like Wendy, but I feel that her and the others have been hogging roster space from more relevant and fresh choices. They also do not have a lot of character development, and only recent titles like Paper Jam, Color Splash, and Bowser Jr.'s Journey, as well as some comics and cartoons, have actually given them personality. Had Nintendo done this from the start, perhaps they would've had a great relationship with Bowser and his son, as well as having their own interests and dreams that they could work towards.
zel
probably quit [see about for info]
- Pronouns
- she/her
i dont think hes any evil whatsoever. i think him kidnapping pauline is entirely out of character anyways considering how often his own banana hoard gets stolen , or how HE or his friends were kidnapped at various points. i just pretend what he does in mvsdk did not happen
hes just. a friendly chill guy... i dont think he would kidnap people (cranky would and did though eehejhe)
also does he.. count as underrated when i hardly see much praise for him aside from memes
Vivian
...
- Pronouns
- She/They/Fae
Borp
Lakitu
Him kidnapping Pauline is one part Nintendo Software Technologies taking Classic DK's personality and injecting it into his veins and one part the twist at the end being that he didn't really kidnap her so much as invite her to tea.
As for the thread's subject... as annoying as Daisy and Waluigi stans and such are... I think the general Mario cast is exactly as "rated" as they deserve to be. Years ago I would've probably said Luigi fit the bill of "overrated" but I don't really see it as much as I used to.
As for the thread's subject... as annoying as Daisy and Waluigi stans and such are... I think the general Mario cast is exactly as "rated" as they deserve to be. Years ago I would've probably said Luigi fit the bill of "overrated" but I don't really see it as much as I used to.
GaleemCrusher
Koopa Troopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't care for Waluigi.