Things that should be changed in Mario lore.

we have this guy at least

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Spawny said:
Since all 3D characters have Paper versions, Paper characters should have 3D versions. I want 3D partners gosh dangit!
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As far as I'm concerned every character in the first three Paper Mario games are the same entity as their 3D 'counterparts,' whether we've seen them in 3D or not. The only game where the PM style is used to portray alternate dimension versions of characters is Paper Jam, though I can strongly imagine that the PM series from Sticker Star onward is the Paper Jam paper characters due to those games being self aware of being sentient parchment, whereas the older games only ever made references like that in very specific fourth-wall-breaking moments. Usually in the form of a visual effect, not dialogue. Most papery effects were visual metaphors for magical or extradimensional stuff.

But hell yeah I want to see characters from those games properly in 3D. As already mentioned we have Goomboss and the Star Spirits already, we also have Koopatrols in Mario Pinball Land and Super Mario Strikers has an unused model of a PM-style Dull Bones. More of that please! Also get Mario & Luigi's cast in on it too! Nintendo has no good reason not to do this, other than having a weird irrational allergy to things not created in-house that weren't already introduced to in-house projects in the 2000s.
 
Mander said:
other than having a weird irrational allergy to things not created in-house that weren't already introduced to in-house projects in the 2000s.
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This isn't specific to Nintendo at all and is in fact, actually normal for a lot of big franchises with multiple entries, far from irrational I would say (it's not an active allergic reaction to these concepts either, it's more like they're completely unaware of its existence). Sonic has a huge amount of characters suck in the past (we hadn't seen Fang, Bean, Bark etc in games since god knows when though to be fair Sonic does have a ton of supplementary stuff such as comics that they do appear in and still fans still want the likes of those characters in the games plus we had Mighty and Ray in Sonic Mania), Kirby has new villains and characters in practically every game...also Kirby is a Nintendo franchise game and still makes plenty of callbacks to prior entries, but they're mainline series, you're not gonna see Kirby's Avalanche references in those games, Rayman has practically zero characters from the first entry (and rarely uses recurring characters at all though most of their characters came from the second entry), Pokemon never references its spin-offs (Mystery Dungeon, Rangers, Snap...ZERO of these and their characters even gets a nod to the main series). I can't say anything about other franchises I haven't played such as Crash, Spyro, Klonoa but you bet they probably have characters that haven't been seen in their early entries.

Even Nintendo in the 2000's doesn't often reference their weird Mario entries from the 1990's, we don't see any of the weird characters from Wario's Woods, Yoshi's Safari subjects such as Koopaling mechs and the Jewelry Land and the Light Realm and Dark Realm never get mentioned or referenced at all, characters from Wrecking Crew 98 such as Foreman Spike and Gotchawrench are left out, even most of the Super Mario Land series outside from like Daisy or whatever gets ignored entirely at least in the main games.

It's one thing to lament the current direction of the Mario series and overall sanitization of the Mario brand, I dislike it too in many various aspects, I've voiced my ire over the Toad designs in one of the first posts of the thread, but it's entirely another thing to accuse Nintendo of possessing some allergic reaction against using niche content from spin-offs on the basis of cherry-picking examples.
 
Dark Light: don't jump to conclusions

Me: Nintendo HATES paper partners and wants them all in the chipper, long gone and forgotten
 
Spawny said:
Dark Light: don't jump to conclusions

Me: Nintendo HATES paper partners and wants them all in the chipper, long gone and forgotten
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Yeah you know how nobody remembers Dedar from Warios Woods? Nintendo views many Mario spinoff characters in the same way.

Nintendo is pretty much going "I don't even know who you are." towards the forgotten characters who tell Nintendo they took everything away from them.
 
Mander said:
As far as I'm concerned every character in the first three Paper Mario games are the same entity as their 3D 'counterparts,' whether we've seen them in 3D or not. The only game where the PM style is used to portray alternate dimension versions of characters is Paper Jam, though I can strongly imagine that the PM series from Sticker Star onward is the Paper Jam paper characters due to those games being self aware of being sentient parchment, whereas the older games only ever made references like that in very specific fourth-wall-breaking moments. Usually in the form of a visual effect, not dialogue. Most papery effects were visual metaphors for magical or extradimensional stuff.

But hell yeah I want to see characters from those games properly in 3D. As already mentioned we have Goomboss and the Star Spirits already, we also have Koopatrols in Mario Pinball Land and Super Mario Strikers has an unused model of a PM-style Dull Bones. More of that please! Also get Mario & Luigi's cast in on it too! Nintendo has no good reason not to do this, other than having a weird irrational allergy to things not created in-house that weren't already introduced to in-house projects in the 2000s.
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I think the paper characters already have 3D versions in the form of their origami forms in Paper Mario; The Origami King.
 
That's not what I meant though. I mean like actual, organic 3D characters that would stand alongside the Mario cast as they appear in 3D games. Characters like Goombella, Vivian, Crystal King, etc would translate perfectly, whereas most original characters in the newer games have paper as a core part of their design & personality so it would be more difficult. A 3D version of King Olly would be possible, but he would no longer be an origami tyrant and just an emo king who hates Toads, and uses magic to enslave people instead of folding them. Which could work, but it would lose a core element of his character. The older characters would not have that problem (which we even see with Goomboss & the Star Spirits) and that's one reason why I miss them so much.
 
I mean, you could still have Olly turn people into paper and THEN fold them.

It worked for Yin Yarn.
 
Genuine question, what do you want to do with these characters in a new game besides putting them as a reference? Should these games also have new characters introduced on top?
 
Fair point. They made characters for a specific game and they don't need to be used again. If they want to reuse the character port the game to more consoles
 
Have Princess Daisy be a redhead with green eyes. And when I say redhead, I mean as in a scarlet red hair color.
 
Those are Celtic traits, right? I always thought a Mediterranean or Maghrebian phenotype (brown/hazel eyes, brown hair, tan skin, but still decidedly European-looking) would suit Daisy the best.
 
Googoogaga Spaghetti said:
Genuine question, what do you want to do with these characters in a new game besides putting them as a reference? Should these games also have new characters introduced on top?
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Well, I'm not the best at coming up with new stories to tell with them, but you don't need that for games like Mario Kart. Even if their roles in story-driven games are over, I don't see why they can't join in the fun when Mario characters from all over just have at a good time. That said, plenty of characters I do think should keep appearing with story roles. Kammy could still appear as one of Bowser's high ranking minions, and she and Kamek could easily coexist and even have a dynamic if they wanted to. That beats leaving Kammy in the past never to be seen again. Mario's partners from the first two PM games can easily be worked into newer entries as NPCs, either on vacation, settling into a new job somewhere, or even in for example, Goombella's case, researching the mystery that's currently relevant.

And that doesn't need to come at the expense of new characters. TTYD had plenty of cameos from PM64's characters, including two of the partners showing up in the flesh, and lots of NPCs that come from and reference locations from that game. Yet it still had its own original story & characters and wasn't just "PM64 References: The Game." Likewise Super Paper Mario did something similar: despite taking place in another dimension they still found places for very clear and intentional callbacks to characters from the previous two games. Francis's castle having an incredibly concentrated amount of it. And Mario & Luigi has a ton of self-love in its continuity with multiple appearances from Shroobs, Beanish, and Brock species. What's so taboo about letting those guys populate the franchise as a whole?

That's the kind of self-love I want the series as a whole to have, even between games like that and the main series. And two ways, not just one. Being conservative with characters isn't that necessary for casual fans who likely already only know a handful of the characters that regularly appear. What's a few extra unfamiliar faces to them, they're getting it for Mario himself who isn't going anywhere. On the other hand, being conservative with characters DOES feel like a missed potential to dedicated fans, who believe it or not can be catered to without alienating casual audiences. Like I said casual audiences look for the main cast and they will always be there. It's not just the RPGs either, there's untapped potential in the Donkey Kong and Wario casts, which have direct ties to a Mario cast mainstay so taking advantage of that seems like a good idea to me. Not to mention there's even memorable MAINLINE characters who have been phased out for no good reason. Toadsworth comes to mind. I firmly believe none of these characters, from any of the Mario spinoff series or characters that haven't been seen in a while, would actively decrease Nintendo's appeal to casual audiences, while it would throw a much appreciated bone to longtime fans. As long as the main cast is present, the casual audiences will keep buying the games.
 
Do you also think the likes of Wario and Waluigi should be in those RPG games too? I wouldn't be opposed but I do feel like they should integrate themselves in the plot rather than appearing for the sake of appearing. Mario Party Island Tour did that with Rosalina, just being awkwardly there in a board, and people didn't take that too well.
 
Koopa con Carne said:
Those are Celtic traits, right? I always thought a Mediterranean or Maghrebian phenotype (brown/hazel eyes, brown hair, tan skin, but still decidedly European-looking) would suit Daisy the best.
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TBH it was mostly because I feel that red hair and green eyes was a better contrast to Peach's blonde hair and blue eyes.
Luciano Barone said:
She already has brown hair and teal eyes.
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I'd say her hair is closer to auburn, which is why I think red hair would make her stand out more. whereas her eyes are blue more than anything. Plus, the green is a closer fit to her jewelry.

To add the Peach contrast, why not give Rosalina Amber-colored eyes to compliment her jewelry.
 
Cornpopio said:
TBH it was mostly because I feel that red hair and green eyes was a better contrast to Peach's blonde hair and blue eyes.

I'd say her hair is closer to auburn, which is why I think red hair would make her stand out more. whereas her eyes are blue more than anything. Plus, the green is a closer fit to her jewelry.

To add the Peach contrast, why not give Rosalina Amber-colored eyes to compliment her jewelry.
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Alright, if you insist.
 
Googoogaga Spaghetti said:
Do you also think the likes of Wario and Waluigi should be in those RPG games too? I wouldn't be opposed but I do feel like they should integrate themselves in the plot rather than appearing for the sake of appearing. Mario Party Island Tour did that with Rosalina, just being awkwardly there in a board, and people didn't take that too well.
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I'd love Wario and Waluigi in an RPG. I think a Mario & Luigi game should have included them already. There could be a dual plot with Mario and Luigi going on an adventure and Wario and Waluigi going on a treasure hunt, with both eventually having the same antagonist leading to an interesting finale. Sort of like how you switch between Mario & Luigi and Bowser in BIS. And at one point having a fight between the two parties, with Wario and Waluigi using their own wacky Bros. moves that they learned while you played as them, but in a boss fight now. Definitely do substantial things with characters wherever you can, but I also appreciate cameos. For example, Bow doesn't do anything for the plot in TTYD, but seeing her there at all was really nice. It makes the world feel cohesive and lived in, even outside the direct path of your adventure. And in games that don't rely on a story, like Mario Kart, literally all the reason you should need to include a character is "would it be fun to play as this character, do we have the legal rights to use this character, cool let's throw their fans a bone" (though I think keeping it in the Marioverse helps preserve the focus on the Mario cast, just use more of them).
 
Make Kamek canonically extremely buff under the robe. Just imagine you beat up Bowser and kamek just tosses an entire airship at you. It would be amazing.
 
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