jan Misali's new "How many Super Mario games" survey

T

TheUnGhost

Goomba
Pronouns
he/him
So with the recent release of Super Mario Bros. Wonder, there is now coming a new survey by YouTuber jan Misali on the subject of how many Super Mario series games are there now. For those unfamiliar with who jan Misali is, they are a YouTube channel that doesn't really have a theme. They are well known for two things, being familiar with toki pona, this new-age language thingy, and trying to solve a rather difficult debate within the casual Super Mario fandom, how many games are there in the Super Mario series?


What is quite fascinating about the video was how many people interpreted the series. There appears to be a lot of controversy on what people consider part of the Super Mario series. Mainly, Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, and Super Mario World are the most uncontroversial when it comes to what people believe is part of this series. There are a lot of people that tend to separate the many games into many different types of "sub-series". For example, the 3D games are separated into their own series. You got the "collect-a-thons" (Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Odyssey), the Galaxy games (Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2)), and the "3D Land/World" games (Super Mario 3D Land and Super Mario 3D World). From what I can tell, it's because these games are a different genre from the 2D platforming games. And then there's the "New Super Mario Bros." series that people also separate from the mainline series.

I could go on, but I think it's a fascinating way of how many fans interpret the series differently than what Nintendo considers the Super Mario series. What's even more interesting is the recent change on the Super Mario Wiki to refer to this entire franchise also as Super Mario. So you can even argue harder the line between the series and franchise is much more blurred here. As I mentioned earlier, jan Misali now has a new survey regarding this debate once again. If you have a Google account, you can use their survey and try to put in your own hot takes.

I will admit, that the survey does very well indeed test what I consider part of this series. For the record, I am basing on how I would've sorted the series and not Nintendo. So expect some Death of the Author points to be made here.

Mainline games:
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario Land
Super Mario World
Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island: Oh boy, what did I get myself into? Even I had to admit; it was really hard to consider this game part of the mainline series. However, two points made me consider this very game at least. For one, its gameplay is very much closer to the mainline games. But more importantly, it got remade for the Super Mario Advance games which remake the Super Mario games in general. So there is some sort of acknowledgment of this game being related to this series.
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Sunshine
New Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Galaxy
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Super Mario 3D Land
New Super Mario Bros. 2
New Super Mario Bros. U
Super Mario 3D World
Super Mario Odyssey
Super Mario Bros. Wonder*
*Game was recently released

The above games which I feel personally comfortable are part of this series. What they all have in common is that they are unique games and branding. The games definitely have consistency in the types of enemies, power-ups, and gameplay to me. Now what are the games I would consider to be major spin-offs:

Major spin-offs:
VS. Super Mario Bros.: A more competitive take on the original game for multiplayer purposes. The game's genre is different.
Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels: A ROM hack of Super Mario Bros. that does very little to be distinct from the original game. I consider an alternate version of the above game. I know Nintendo marketed this game as a sequel but if I was them, I wouldn't have done that.
Super Mario Bros. (Game & Watch): Bite-sized version of the original game.
All Night Nippon: Super Mario Bros.: A humorous alternate version of The Lost Levels.
Super Mario Bros. (Nelsonic Game Watch): Another bite-sized version of this game.
Super Mario Bros. 3 (Nelsonic Game Watch)
Super Mario World (Nelsonic Game Watch)
Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3: The fact that it is indeed referencing Super Mario Land is some sort of evidence of calling this a strong spin-off. It's basically a backdoor pilot for a new series of games. Plus, the gameplay is much stronger to the previous Super Mario games.
BS Super Mario USA: The "BS" games I feel are basically remixes of the original games. In other words, they are alternative versions. I feel it's slightly wrong to call them remakes because they do change the context of the original game. I guess reimagining would be a better word.
BS Super Mario Collection
New Super Luigi U: In the same vein as The Lost Levels, it serves itself as an alternate version of the original game.
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
Super Mario Maker: The genre really plays an important part here. I feel the purpose of the game is to create Super Mario courses and that's pretty much it. It's more akin to something like LittleBigPlanet or RPG Maker. It's a utility tool if anything.
Super Mario Maker 2: Point made better thanks to its Super World feature. I am aware it has a "story mode" but it's very barebones to the rest of the Super Mario games.
Super Mario Bros. 35: While it does remake the original game, its gameplay is unique to be considered more than a remake.
Bowser's Fury: I forgot what I actually chose on the survey but Bowser's Fury is a small game put into another. Conker: Live & Reloaded did a similar thing where they had a remake of Bad Fur Day but included Chapter X as a new story.

"Non-canon"
For the record, I don't really consider anything to be "non-canon". So yes, I'm willing to consider Hotel Mario as a "minor spin-off". Basically, Sonic Twitter says, "Everything is canon." Of all the games I gave it to, it was:

Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic: It's a relevant game to the franchise and it is important to at least recognize it. For the record, I do not consider Panel de Pon as part of the franchise. For the record, if the Super Mario characters actually serve an important role in the game's setting, it is considered a game in the franchise. Likewise, precursors can be seen as relevant to the series. Wart, Birdo, and Mouser have become Super Mario characters now, so it's rather important to consider this game is at least a precursor.

Unsure:
Super Mario Bros. Special: This game is really weird. You could dismiss it based on not being published by Nintendo, so there's that. It does indeed have the tropes of the games but it's hard to judge it because this game is... special.
Super Mario Run: Not sure how I would classify this game. Sure, it's officially recognized as such but the genre is really different from the platformer games. But, it does indeed show the elements seen in the games such as using New Super Mario Bros. U's graphics.

These are games that are outside of the series to also bring up but I didn't want to bloat this thread. I just like to know what you guys think. Also, this is not an attempt for the Super Mario series article to get edited to include or exclude games. At the end of the day, we should include what Nintendo officially considers as part of the series.
 
Last edited:
I think bringing up Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. are also necessary because while not really part of the Super Mario series branding they're....sorta there before Super Mario Bros.
 
The more time I spend on this survey the more I feel like the options just, don't cover how I feel. Like I don't think only having two layers of spin-offs really covers how far the spin-off games can range in relevance to Mario, and then having one of the choices be "non-canon" really doesn't make sense, because there isn't a canon in the first place. I think anything that isn't straight up a main series game isn't canon (and that's being generous, I think outside of like Mario 3 to World and the Galaxy games there isn't any consitent lore/plot/whatever going on). I also wish there was an option for "Not a game, but still Mario" for stuff like the the watch toys and Super Mario World (arcade).
 
I'm a little confused about the concept of canon when it comes to fictional franchises. The term seems to be a little vague to me. Since it's all make-believe, I haven't really understood the deal with sorting things into canon or non-canon.

Officiality is if the work was created by the original company/creator of the franchise and Consistency is how much details and events match from work to work. This seems to be more clear than the concept of canon to me, but it might be a somewhat unpopular opinion.

For example, the Mario Kart games would be official, since they were published in house by Nintendo, but inconsistent to Super Mario Bros, since Peach and Bowser can race on the same team.

Hotel-Mario would have low officiality and consistency.

I hope my thinking makes sense.
 
This survey is hell but I've done my part!

kin, sina pana e sona pi toki pona lon lipu ni la, mi mu
Also I squealed when you put the Toki Pona lessons on this page
 
GuitaristRosalina said:
I'm a little confused about the concept of canon when it comes to fictional franchises. The term seems to be a little vague to me. Since it's all make-believe, I haven't really understood the deal with sorting things into canon or non-canon.
Click to expand...

"Canon" really only applies to things that have an officially stated or printed canon of some sort, and a lot of works of fiction, especially ones aimed at kids and families and don't really try to be particularly story or setting-driven do not have one. Mario is one such example.

Zelda, Metroid and Castlevania are all examples of video games that have a printed canon.

Spongebob is an example of a TV series that doesn't really have a canon, and often deliberately breaks consistency with itself in the name of being funny.

Gravity Falls on the other hand is an example of a TV series that's heavily driven by its story and setting and even has episodes that are explicitly billed as non-canon because they're not intended to fit into where the story actually went.
 
MegaBowser64 said:
it's not a rom hack
Click to expand...

I mean, it's an edit of Super Mario Bros. I've seen people jokingly refer to it as an "official ROM hack", so that's why I did it.

Freddie Freaker said:
The more time I spend on this survey the more I feel like the options just, don't cover how I feel. Like I don't think only having two layers of spin-offs really covers how far the spin-off games can range in relevance to Mario, and then having one of the choices be "non-canon" really doesn't make sense, because there isn't a canon in the first place. I think anything that isn't straight up a main series game isn't canon (and that's being generous, I think outside of like Mario 3 to World and the Galaxy games there isn't any consitent lore/plot/whatever going on). I also wish there was an option for "Not a game, but still Mario" for stuff like the the watch toys and Super Mario World (arcade).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do think the survey could've used much more work. I understand that there are people who have a different belief on "canon" for the Super Mario franchise. For instance, people separate the traditional style, DIC cartoons, the anime film, the live-action movie (which I guess does have a different canon), the 3D animated film, Hotel Mario, and the various "Go-Karting with Bowser" games into different canons. Really, I don't think a "canon" really makes a game less of a Super Mario game. But yeah, the point you guys made about the "canon" is much more valid. It's the reason I just go with, "Everything is canon," because Nintendo has never specified on what is "canon," and there are even discrepancies in various games. The Koopalings are either Bowser's kids or just his minions. Furthermore, I have lots of headcanons on the canon to some degree. I personally view the Luigi's Mansion games as taking place in their own canon because it has the most continuity of all the series. Sometimes, who directed the game also controls what I view canon because a certain author has their own interpretation of the franchise.

So yeah, I agree with Freddie Freaker there in which there could've been more options, but I don't think having a minor spinoff button is not a totally bad thing either. This is because you can make some sort of argument of a game being based on the Super Mario series but ones that aren't based on it. My biggest problem where that some games were missing.

Edit: Something I forgot to mention, I forgot to include the reissues but it's obvious where they would've gone. I also put the various Yoshi games in unsure because they have the most theming when it comes being close the actual platformer games. Ray Trace mentions Mario Bros. which I do consider to be a main spin-off because it is remade in the Super Mario Advance games.
 
jan Misali has recently made an update regarding the new survey. It is ending soon and they are planning to make a video on the survey. Below is a video they made previously, which is just some silly shit. ala ken awen!

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back