Do you beleive in Jesus?

[Garth Marenghi]

It was rather uncalled for, keep that opinion to yourself, because that was just bad timing

This entire thread is opinion.

I'm a Christian. I believe in Jesus. I'm not opposed to homosexuality or anything else like that. I'm gonna leave it at that.

 

[General bob-omb]

How you can base your entire belief on a loosely organized set of documents that have been extremely butchered over the years is beyond me.

Believing in Jesus is believing what farmers from thousands of years ago said instead of what modern scientists say.

I have faith that it is true. It actually isn't beyond you, it makes complete sense. Look around at creation, how complex and amazing it is, and yet "modern scientists" say that this is all random. That nothing exploded into something, then formed the planets and the stars, and generated life from non-living matter. That is in fact what doen't make sense, they are just trying to get around the obvious truth. Secondly, the last sentence is the fallacy of chronological snobbery which is an argument based on the passage of time and is thus an invalid form of reasoning.

 

[ShyGuy27]

That nothing exploded into something,

I'll admit I'm no expert on the Big Bang, but no, it's not that simple.

and generated life from non-living matter.

Every element in your body can be found in nature, it's simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life. And the universe sure is old, it was bound to happen eventually.

 

[Fawfulfury65]

and generated life from non-living matter.

Every element in your body can be found in nature, it's simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life. And the universe sure is old, it was bound to happen eventually.

How is something non-living supposed to turn into something that is alive?

 

[General bob-omb]

That nothing exploded into something,

I'll admit I'm no expert on the Big Bang, but no, it's not that simple.

and generated life from non-living matter.

Every element in your body can be found in nature, it's simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life. And the universe sure is old, it was bound to happen eventually.

Your correct in one way but not in another. The Big Bang Theory is not that simple but that is what it comes down to in general terms. It cannot be true mainly because of this: The law of conservation of matter. It states: matter can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed. Therefore, how could space form at a point and expand into matter? Another question is where did the space that "preformed" this come to exist? God answers both questions. Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" NIV. The heavens as in space, time, the stars, the galaxies, and everything else outside our galaxy, and the earth as in the planet we live on. God can do this because He is not bound to the laws He put in place. Secondly, yes every element in your body can be found in nature, but no it isn't "simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life." Any human that took the time to fuse those elements together wouldn't get life, similar things have even been done before. Matter can't bring life no matter how you put it. Although God can even answer this. Genesis 1:11-13 says: "Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good." Another verse, Genesis 1:20-27, says: "And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day. 24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." God created life complex and amazing and I stand in awe of Him.

 

[Yoshario]

How you can base your entire belief on a loosely organized set of documents that have been extremely butchered over the years is beyond me.

Believing in Jesus is believing what farmers from thousands of years ago said instead of what modern scientists say.

I have faith that it is true. It actually isn't beyond you, it makes complete sense. Look around at creation, how complex and amazing it is, and yet "modern scientists" say that this is all random. That nothing exploded into something, then formed the planets and the stars, and generated life from non-living matter. That is in fact what doen't make sense, they are just trying to get around the obvious truth. Secondly, the last sentence is the fallacy of chronological snobbery which is an argument based on the passage of time and is thus an invalid form of reasoning.

I believe that humans today are smarter than they were thousands of years ago. We know a lot more about the world around us.

If you want to know about the origin of life and the universe, read a fucking science textbook or google it. Science doesn't say it's random, but you said it was because of some magical fairy.

and generated life from non-living matter.

Every element in your body can be found in nature, it's simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life. And the universe sure is old, it was bound to happen eventually.

How is something non-living supposed to turn into something that is alive?

Abiogenesis.

 

[ShyGuy27]

you said it was because of some magical fairy.

Now now, I'd like to think we can all discuss this in a more civilized manner than simply attacking the other side's beliefs. General Bob-omb clearly put a lot of work into his rebuttal, you owe him more than that if you're gonna respond.

Your correct in one way but not in another. The Big Bang Theory is not that simple but that is what it comes down to in general terms. It cannot be true mainly because of this: The law of conservation of matter. It states: matter can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed. Therefore, how could space form at a point and expand into matter? Another question is where did the space that "preformed" this come to exist?

The Big Bang doesn't necessarily have to be the origin of all matter and energy, there's just evidence that way back when, something happened that sent everything flying away from everything else. As I said earlier in the thread, there's theories that our Big Bang was merely one in an infinite string of Big Crunches and Big Bangs, and that all that matter has simply existed forever.

God can do this because He is not bound to the laws He put in place.

It strikes me as slightly unfair that you can just say that you're explanation simply doesn't have to listen to the rules and that's how He did it, but He's God so whatever.

Secondly, yes every element in your body can be found in nature, but no it isn't "simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life." Any human that took the time to fuse those elements together wouldn't get life, similar things have even been done before. Matter can't bring life no matter how you put it.

Actually, I can remember an experiment where early-Earth conditions were mimicked and amino acids (AKA the building blocks of life) did form.

 

[Yoshario]

you said it was because of some magical fairy.

Now now, I'd like to think we can all discuss this in a more civilized manner than simply attacking the other side's beliefs. General Bob-omb clearly put a lot of work into his rebuttal, you owe him more than that if you're gonna respond.

Well, if I asserted that there was a magical fairy in the sky but you just can see him, taste him, smell him, or touch him, you would probably not believe that it exists. There is as much evidence for the magical fairy as there is for a god. I didn't attack his belief; I compared to a magical fairy, which is a fair comparison, IMO. Attacking his belief would be saying something like "LOL YOUR CHRISTIAN YOU'RE STUPID", which I didn't.

While I was being lazy with the post, I did refer him to places where he would be able to find answers to his questions.

Note: I was responding to his earlier post, not the gigantic post he wrote write before mine.

 

[General bob-omb]

How you can base your entire belief on a loosely organized set of documents that have been extremely butchered over the years is beyond me.

Believing in Jesus is believing what farmers from thousands of years ago said instead of what modern scientists say.

I have faith that it is true. It actually isn't beyond you, it makes complete sense. Look around at creation, how complex and amazing it is, and yet "modern scientists" say that this is all random. That nothing exploded into something, then formed the planets and the stars, and generated life from non-living matter. That is in fact what doesn't make sense, they are just trying to get around the obvious truth. Secondly, the last sentence is the fallacy of chronological snobbery which is an argument based on the passage of time and is thus an invalid form of reasoning.

I believe that humans today are smarter than they were thousands of years ago. We know a lot more about the world around us.

If you want to know about the origin of life and the universe, read a *bleep*ing science textbook or google it. Science doesn't say it's random, but you said it was because of some magical fairy.

and generated life from non-living matter.

Every element in your body can be found in nature, it's simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life. And the universe sure is old, it was bound to happen eventually.

How is something non-living supposed to turn into something that is alive?

Abiogenesis.

You can believe that if you want to, you don't have to believe the truth. Humans have always had the same potential they just hadn't acquired the knowledge we have today. Secondly, what...? Why did you curse? I have read many science books and know where the theory stands. Again what...? A "magical fairy" couldn't create the universe. Something as small and pathetic as that couldn't do much, especialy since magic and fairies don't exist. When did I ever say that a magical fariy created the universe? I said God created the universe. The all-powerful, infinite, and loving God. Thirdly, from what I know of Abiogenesis it is an explanation apart from Creation. Its is part of the theory evolution and is an unproven theory along with evolution.

 

[Superchao]

This is a bit late, but it wasn't Sodom and Goliath it was Sodom and Gomorrah. Goliath was the Philistine giant who was killed by David.

Also, evolution may not be outright proven, but it has mounds of evidence for it. I, personally, subscribe to the idea that the "six days" of creation were in fact millions upon millions of years, that would look like days to an omnipotent being such as God.

 

[Zero777]

This is a bit late, but it wasn't Sodom and Goliath it was Sodom and Gomorrah. Goliath was the Philistine giant who was killed by David.

Also, evolution may not be outright proven, but it has mounds of evidence for it. I, personally, subscribe to the idea that the "six days" of creation were in fact millions upon millions of years, that would look like days to an omnipotent being such as God.

1st Statement: I think you are referring to my post where I said in it something like "Sodom and Golitah..." I was reffering how both, and yes I think also included Gomorrah, commited some great sins.

2nd Statment: Agreed, my 8th grade bible teacher believe in that also.

 

[General bob-omb]

This thread is getting nowhere and is turning into a pointless effort. We all are just going to end right back where we started. We can believe what we want and God has given us that choice. I have faith in God. And God loves us all, even so far to send His son, Jesus, to die of our sins so that we might live with Him. Jesus rose three days later and over came death and showed the world that He truly was the son of God. I ask that you accept Christ who paid for your sins so that you don't have to. The choice is yours eternal life or punishment. I have chosen eternal life. I leave you with this question: Which will you choose? God wants you to choose life.

 

[Superchao]

Also, evolution may not be outright proven, but it has mounds of evidence for it. I, personally, subscribe to the idea that the "six days" of creation were in fact millions upon millions of years, that would look like days to an omnipotent being such as God.

1st Statement: I think you are referring to my post where I said in it something like "Sodom and Golitah..." I was reffering how both, and yes I think also included Gomorrah, commited some great sins.

Yeah, I was. I think it said Goliath was a sinner as well as an enemy. It just threw me for a loop since Sodom and Gomorrah are the ones usually mentioned together while Goliath is a completely seperate story, so... yeah.

 

[ShyGuy27]

Thirdly, from what I know of Abiogenesis it is an explanation apart from Creation. Its is part of the theory evolution and is an unproven theory along with evolution.

I'm sorry, but are you really pulling the "it's not proven" card while basing your argument on the Bible?

 

[Yoshario]

How you can base your entire belief on a loosely organized set of documents that have been extremely butchered over the years is beyond me.

Believing in Jesus is believing what farmers from thousands of years ago said instead of what modern scientists say.

I have faith that it is true. It actually isn't beyond you, it makes complete sense. Look around at creation, how complex and amazing it is, and yet "modern scientists" say that this is all random. That nothing exploded into something, then formed the planets and the stars, and generated life from non-living matter. That is in fact what doesn't make sense, they are just trying to get around the obvious truth. Secondly, the last sentence is the fallacy of chronological snobbery which is an argument based on the passage of time and is thus an invalid form of reasoning.

I believe that humans today are smarter than they were thousands of years ago. We know a lot more about the world around us.

If you want to know about the origin of life and the universe, read a *bleep*ing science textbook or google it. Science doesn't say it's random, but you said it was because of some magical fairy.

and generated life from non-living matter.

Every element in your body can be found in nature, it's simply a matter of those elements fusing together into the right combinations for simple life, then evolving into more complex life. And the universe sure is old, it was bound to happen eventually.

How is something non-living supposed to turn into something that is alive?

Abiogenesis.

You can believe that if you want to, you don't have to believe the truth. Humans have always had the same potential they just hadn't acquired the knowledge we have today. Secondly, what...? Why did you curse? I have read many science books and know where the theory stands. Again what...? A "magical fairy" couldn't create the universe. Something as small and pathetic as that couldn't do much, especialy since magic and fairies don't exist. When did I ever say that a magical fariy created the universe? I said God created the universe. The all-powerful, infinite, and loving God. Thirdly, from what I know of Abiogenesis it is an explanation apart from Creation. Its is part of the theory evolution and is an unproven theory along with evolution.

You have as much evidence for a god as you do for a magical fairy. It is a little silly to call it truth if you have no evidence for it. I assume you regard it as truth because you have been brought up in a religious family, because I don't see how someone could believe the Bible if they weren't indoctrinated. The Bible makes no sense and advocates infanticide.

[quote author="Bible"]

11 Ephraim's glory will fly away like a bird—
no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.
12 Even if they rear children,
I will bereave them of every one.
Woe to them
when I turn away from them!
13 I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre,
planted in a pleasant place.
But Ephraim will bring out
their children to the slayer."

14 Give them, LORD—
what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.

15 "Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal,
I hated them there.
Because of their sinful deeds,
I will drive them out of my house.
I will no longer love them;
all their leaders are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is blighted,
their root is withered,
they yield no fruit.
Even if they bear children,
I will slay their cherished offspring."[/quote]

 

[Zero777]

[quote author="Bible"]
11 Ephraim’s glory will fly away like a bird—
no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.
12 Even if they rear children,
I will bereave them of every one.
Woe to them
when I turn away from them!
13 I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre,
planted in a pleasant place.
But Ephraim will bring out
their children to the slayer.”

14 Give them, LORD—
what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.

15 “Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal,
I hated them there.
Because of their sinful deeds,
I will drive them out of my house.
I will no longer love them;
all their leaders are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is blighted,
their root is withered,
they yield no fruit.
Even if they bear children,
I will slay their cherished offspring.”
[/quote]
Obviously this is a warning to the parents, or grandparents or before, to stop or else they will suffer the consequences, and I think the part that say that God will kill the children was mistranslated, but that's my opinion, but I'll look it up and go deeper into it.

@General Bob-omb: These guys are right, you're being a bit one-sided here with the God to Fairy thing. Also stop saying that this is pointless argument, BLT asked questions and is getting answers that are debated and resolved to a good answer anybody can understand.

 

[Superchao]

It seems that was more of an "exterminate the entire city" thing, which sadly wasn't all that uncommon back in those days.

However, I am slightly offended at the "indoctrination" statement, mainly because it seems to be disregarding people who were not brought up Christian but later chose to become Christian. But that might be misreading your sentence, and if I did I apologize.

 

[Garth Marenghi]

I'm also going to say I don't completely reject atheism, and accept the possibility there isn't a God.

 

[Koopayoshi]

[quote author="Bible"]
11 Ephraim’s glory will fly away like a bird—
no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.
12 Even if they rear children,
I will bereave them of every one.
Woe to them
when I turn away from them!
13 I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre,
planted in a pleasant place.
But Ephraim will bring out
their children to the slayer.”

14 Give them, LORD—
what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.

15 “Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal,
I hated them there.
Because of their sinful deeds,
I will drive them out of my house.
I will no longer love them;
all their leaders are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is blighted,
their root is withered,
they yield no fruit.
Even if they bear children,
I will slay their cherished offspring.”

Obviously this is a warning to the parents, or grandparents or before, to stop or else they will suffer the consequences, and I think the part that say that God will kill the children was mistranslated, but that's my opinion, but I'll look it up and go deeper into it.

@General Bob-omb: These guys are right, you're being a bit one-sided here with the God to Fairy thing. Also stop saying that this is pointless argument, BLT asked questions and is getting answers that are debated and resolved to a good answer anybody can understand.
[/quote]
First of all is this even in the bible? What book is this in?

 

[Kyoko Sakura]

First of all is this even in the bible? What book is this in?

Hosea 9:11

 

[MCS]

Hm.

 

[Kyoko Sakura]

Ephraim. Many, many years ago. God was still experimenting with prototype people. Actually the people quoting it here are just plain taking it out of context. What is the right context? I don't know.

 

[Yoshario]

[quote author="Bible"]
11 Ephraim’s glory will fly away like a bird—
no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.
12 Even if they rear children,
I will bereave them of every one.
Woe to them
when I turn away from them!
13 I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre,
planted in a pleasant place.
But Ephraim will bring out
their children to the slayer.”

14 Give them, LORD—
what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.

15 “Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal,
I hated them there.
Because of their sinful deeds,
I will drive them out of my house.
I will no longer love them;
all their leaders are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is blighted,
their root is withered,
they yield no fruit.
Even if they bear children,
I will slay their cherished offspring.”

Obviously this is a warning to the parents, or grandparents or before, to stop or else they will suffer the consequences, and I think the part that say that God will kill the children was mistranslated, but that's my opinion, but I'll look it up and go deeper into it.

@General Bob-omb: These guys are right, you're being a bit one-sided here with the God to Fairy thing. Also stop saying that this is pointless argument, BLT asked questions and is getting answers that are debated and resolved to a good answer anybody can understand.

First of all is this even in the bible? What book is this in?
[/quote]
If it wasn't in the Bible, why would I post it or quote it as being in the Bible?

You might be surprised to find what is in the Bible. Many Christians don't read the Bible themselves and don't know it advocates terrible things.

 

[Kyoko Sakura]

I knew it advocated terrible things before I started reading it.

 

[Zero777]

[quote author="Bible"]
11 Ephraim’s glory will fly away like a bird—
no birth, no pregnancy, no conception.
12 Even if they rear children,
I will bereave them of every one.
Woe to them
when I turn away from them!
13 I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre,
planted in a pleasant place.
But Ephraim will bring out
their children to the slayer.”

14 Give them, LORD—
what will you give them?
Give them wombs that miscarry
and breasts that are dry.

15 “Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal,
I hated them there.
Because of their sinful deeds,
I will drive them out of my house.
I will no longer love them;
all their leaders are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is blighted,
their root is withered,
they yield no fruit.
Even if they bear children,
I will slay their cherished offspring.”

Obviously this is a warning to the parents, or grandparents or before, to stop or else they will suffer the consequences, and I think the part that say that God will kill the children was mistranslated, but that's my opinion, but I'll look it up and go deeper into it.

@General Bob-omb: These guys are right, you're being a bit one-sided here with the God to Fairy thing. Also stop saying that this is pointless argument, BLT asked questions and is getting answers that are debated and resolved to a good answer anybody can understand.

First of all is this even in the bible? What book is this in?

If it wasn't in the Bible, why would I post it or quote it as being in the Bible?

You might be surprised to find what is in the Bible. Many Christians don't read the Bible themselves and don't know it advocates terrible things.
[/quote]
Like what?