What Would A New Trilogy Of Paper Mario Games Be Like?

[Sleuth "Doggy" Dawg]

As far as we're concerned, Nintendo is never going to return the Paper Mario series to its original roots in the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube eras if we don't count The Thousand Year Door's Switch remake. But if Nintendo did do that, what would a new trilogy of Paper Mario games be like? Down here are a couple of ideas I would like to see in that new Paper Mario trilogy:

#1: Bring back the chapter system of the first two games and expand the number of chapters (Not counting the prologue) from 8 to 10, because a lot of unlicensed Nintendo games during the 8-bit era (With a few licensed games like Transformers: Convoy no Nazo being rare exceptions as far as I'm concerned) featured 10 worlds/levels/stages as opposed to the traditional 8 that most Mario games have had in the past, and I'm interested in seeing how the Paper Mario series would tackle this if the series returned to its original roots. And in addition to having a prologue, add an epilogue chapter after the game's final boss is defeated and the main story is completed.
#2: Bring back the partner system of the first two games, with most of the partners recruited throughout the games being Mario species that haven't had a whole lot of representation in the Mario franchise, especially playable representation. In addition, expand on the partners' personalities and character development so that the partners aren't limited to acting as talking tools for Mario due to his silent protagonist rule.
#3: In addition to bringing back badges, the various Jump moves, Hammer moves and usable items, add in weapons and armor that the player can purchase at stores around the map. Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars did this and it worked relatively well, so why can't the Paper Mario series when they return to their original roots? Subsequently, the Rabbids spin-off series furthermore expanded the usage of weapons in Mario games, so I'm sure the Paper Mario series could also profit from this. With armor, in addition to improving the characters' defense, I'd also find it interesting to see aesthetic changes depending on the armor the player equips each individual character with. Like, Mario and Company would start out in their regular clothes and by the end of the game, they'd be all dolled up in fancy royal outfits akin to games like Neoquest II on Neopets.

What are some ideas you would like to see in a new Paper Mario trilogy if Nintendo did end up returning the series to the roots of the first two games?

 

[Waluigi Time]

Really I just want a decent story and fun, distinct characters. That's what endeared me to the series in the first place and it's a shame to see them take a backseat to "haha get it the world is paper"-based plots and a cast that largely consists of the same generic species designs copied and pasted over and over. I don't care as much about the specifics of gameplay, doesn't need to be TTYD 2 (I mean I enjoyed SPM) but uh... preferably something actually fun? Nintendo seems to be really dead set against bringing back the original combat system as-is but their constant attempts to reinvent the wheel keep sucking the fun out of it.

(By the way, if you're going to reply and tell me how trash those aspects of the original games actually were, don't waste your time.)

 

[Xiahou Dun]

The recipes need to have some actual use lol why was it designed like this. Just redo that system entirely and get something that's actually worth the payoff rather than the current system where you hunt for obscure boiled egg in the corner of a place and exchange your 50 coins in a shop located in World 3.4 to get a piece of lettuce and then cook something that, when it's finally done, it just restores an arbitrary amount of health, when health restoring items and coins are so abundant.

iirc, even the difficulty-increasing romhacks have people not using recipes, they seem to be THAT mostly worthless in the first couple of games.

/Paper Mario thread ready yer flameshields everyone

 

[Xiahou Ba]

So I'm going to offer my take here. Warning: I say this as someone who actually enjoyed Sticker Star.

One of the most uninspiring things about the modern Paper Mario games are the terrible, godawful recolors of friendly no-name NPCs, aka the nameless Toads. I've ranted about this great lengths in the past, but if you want me to sum this up: imagine playing any other RPG, and every single fucking NPC you talk to is the same model of a generic human villager, except they have a different hair color. Like, for example, in Tales of Symphonia, every world has you trying to find a Wonder Chef who will give you a recipe for you to cook something with. He has a distinct character model from other NPCs, he wears a distinct outfit, he has unique hair style, he has a different body physique etc. These combination of factors leave an impression on players, and he's *entirely* optional to boot.

When bloody Sticker Star did a shady character who plays a very prominent role in the game, and his shadiness is hinted from just his dialogue? Literally a fucking purple Toad.

The frustrating thing is, Paper Mario used to do this, at least, care a little bit more about their townies than they do currently. In a desert, you have Bedouin-inspired Toads. In the cold areas, you have characters dressed in cold weather appropriate outfits. You have fat Toads. You have female Toads. You have child Toads. For the chef example above, we got Tayce T. and Zess T, dressed and aged uniquely from the others. Some people think oh who cares about generic NPCs, who cares about townies, in an RPG, why put no effort in townie designs and I'm like, every other RPG out there clearly DOES care about what generic, no-name NPCs wear, what they look like, what skin tones they have, what age they are, why would they put some attention and detail into their physical appearance especially in the setting? Oh it's Mario, it's for dumb babies, it doesn't need a well-designed town or any thought put into its inhabitants. No, shut up, developers are clearly cutting corners here, and besides, it's Mario, one of the biggest franchises, and you don't need to tell me they don't have budget for this?

They try to alleviate this in later entries like giving those Toads little outfits but they're *still* nameless NPCs and use the same fucking character model with fucking awful "names" like "Toad mechanic" or "Captain T. Ode".

So now you know what I want, at the very least, in a new trilogy: NPCs actually worth a shit. You don't need levels of detail in these towns in the same level as Baldur's Gate but damn at the very least give them unique physical characteristics and actual names and not "Toad who complains about kids playing front lawn Toad".

 

[winstein]

I know the developers are likely dead-set on only making the main trio Mario, Peach, and Bowser important, and maaaybe Luigi also, but in my opinion, the series could take advantage of the other prominent Mario characters. I suppose Bowser Jr. and Kamek doing good work are fine, but I am thinking more on the side of Mario's friends. I am thinking of characters like Daisy and Donkey Kong (that mask in Origami King doesn't count since it's not only an object, but it's not even called "Donkey Kong").

I suspect that this is not a popular opinion because of the more vocal demand for original characters, which was in full effect throughout Sticker Star, Colour Splash, and even Origami King. But I think it would be fun to see the underutilised characters get used in an established setting. It also exercises their personality traits, which I am sure will always be a good thing, or at least a guaranteed net positive. After all (this is not related to Paper Mario, but throughout the Mario series), seeing these characters in unique clothing like Daisy in equestrian suit or Waluigi in dapper casual suit (in Mario Golf Super Rush) are breathtaking. This could extend to other series. especially in RPGs where characterisation is one of its biggest strengths. By the way, this point is not restricted to Paper Mario. It applies to all Mario RPG series.

Other species as non-player characters (NPC) would also fall under this umbrella. I'm sure there are a lot of love for Toads and the Bowser's Minions, and the developers has shown as such, but I am thinking of how other species could also get the spotlight. Even the Yoshis got them in the first Paper Mario! But to the point, the Mario series introduced quite a lot of friendly species, don't they? They got Penguins, Piantas, or Rabbits for example. They could utilise them to populate the world with different species, like a cultural melting pot. Again, I am sure there are more love for original stuff (in this case, the original species like the Twilight Town residents or the X-Nauts), but using what was already established makes it more enriching.

So all in all, for a new Paper Mario series going forward, I would like the lesser-shown Mario characters and species to appear more prominently.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Revin]

in true nintendo fashion, they will take the lessons they learned from LABO and LEGO Mario, and the game will come with several pre-printed sheets of paper, each featuring pictures of mario characters to cut out and play with. attach your left joy-con 2 to mario, and the right joy-con 2 to bowser, and make your own adventure in the space between the two

 

[Dorayaki]

with most of the partners recruited throughout the games being Mario species that haven't had a whole lot of representation in the Mario franchise

Not meant to cease your passion, but we get to know that Nintendo got a valid reason to oppose it.

When Mario stories go too deep and successful with the bonds between partners, that'd raise the feedback: "oh s/he has become Mario's BFF so Mario would like to invite this character to the next Mario Party!" which would acutally not be in Nintendo's initial plan.

Until Nintendo fully embrace the idea of promoting RPG icons to secondary main cast, I think it makes sense for them to limit the output of story exclusive OCs with rich roles.

I still say don't forget the format of other Mario RPGs when we get to play the current main cast, we haven't even seen Daisy and Toad in a party.

 

[Wittgenstein]

Until Nintendo fully embrace the idea of promoting RPG icons to secondary main cast

To be fair I want this just as strongly as I want RPGs to embrace their original characters. I hate the idea that they have to be thinking about this character being immediately abandoned when creating them. I'd rather them instead be allowed to think about potential future appearances when designing characters. I hate getting attached to a character then watching them fade into the past with a single appearance being all they ever get. But I also get attached to the RPG characters much more easily than those outside the RPGs. Which makes me want to be able to pick them to represent me when I play the competitive party games. If the cycle is "these characters are doomed to be one-offs from the start -> why even focus on them if they're gonna be one-offs -> they're one-offs, time to start over -> these characters are doomed to be one-offs from the start -> etc" that just creates an endless supply of insanely memorable characters prematurely thrown in the trash. I say there's no good reason they can't populate the rosters even if they don't tell new stories with them.

Anyway, I don't want a "new Paper Mario trilogy," really all I want is the original Paper Mario trilogy to be picked up from (yes, it's a trilogy, I'm going off the metrics of things that SPM kept and iterated on, such as tone, worldbuilding style, chapter structure etc, not just the stuff it moved away from). I want a fourth entry that satisfies all the stuff I haven't felt satisfied by any entry after SPM on. This includes a new set of Shamans, a new large-scale threat that's organic and not related to paper/crafts, a new set of villains that have memorable personalities AND organic designs, who interact with each other and aren't each fought just once. A new set of allies that are wholly original to this adventure, whether they be existing species modified 64/TTYD style, or original ones like Vivian or the Pixls. Potentially also a team-up of mainline characters like we got in SPM.

I also want all the traditions dropped in the modern series to return. Have Whacka show up somewhere, with Whacka Bumps available, this also means the classic item system with the classic lineup of items + new ones, a cook that can make recipes with them, etc. Have traditional enemies that were recurring before Sticker Star return. Clefts, Koopatrols, etc. Introduce new ones in the same vein each game prior to Sticker Star did. Basically, return the series to exactly where it was before Sticker Star wiped the slate clean. Gameplay-wise, iterate on TTYD the same way TTYD iterated on 64. Bring back characters who weren't in SPM, like Kammy Koopa. But don't pretend SPM didn't happen since overall it still feels like a valid part of that specific take on the Mario world, unlike the later entries. I'm firmly in the "Paper Mario 4, not Paper Mario 3" camp on this hypothetical return to form.

And please PLEASE take the Toad NPC design back to where it was in the originals, if anything add even more variety to it rather than whatever the fuck they were doing in the modern series. I strongly hope the TTYD remake is a sign we might get this, but after the TOK Interviews that reaffirmed all these silly restrictions and limitations I'm not ready to be 100% confident that the TTYD remake wasn't simply given a pass because it's a remake.

 

[Xiahou Ba]

When Mario stories go too deep and successful with the bonds between partners, that'd raise the feedback: "oh s/he has become Mario's BFF so Mario would like to invite this character to the next Mario Party!" which would acutally not be in Nintendo's initial plan.

I don't get why people even bring up Mario canon when talking about character rosters in these types of games. It's the same series where Luigi rescues himself and he completely acknowledges the ridiculousness of this situation in Super Mario Galaxy, and you're supposed to take Super Mario Galaxy very seriously at least according to some diehard Mario fans.

Lots of games don't give a shit about canon and story when making rosters for multiplayer experiences. They just care if a character is fun to play. Canonically, Sonic wouldn't drive a car in the Sonic Racing games yet here we are. Aerith from Final Fantasy 7 is probably one of the most famous video game deaths yet she goes on being playable in multiple Final Fantasy games.

 

[Dorayaki]

Lots of games don't give a shit about canon and story when making rosters for multiplayer experiences.

Well the thing is it's hard to convince people to fall in love with your storytelling when you're not actually passionate about it.

Back to the discussion where Nintendo restrict OCs now, my answer is I don't want to encourage Nintendo to create detailed OCs that won't get further uses just because I want a specfic format for the next Paper Mario title

 

[Xiahou Ba]

Creating one-offs is RPG MO, not because of mandates. Devs for these games always have new ideas they want to use, hence why they always make up new RPG OCs and settings all the time and never return old ones.

 

[Dorayaki]

hence why they always make up new RPG OCs and settings all the time and never return old ones.

I think that specifically depends on the roles and importance.

We sure can use OCs to tell story but would be problematic if the OCs join your party and are given the importance as a main cast (BFF, royalty etc.

Altho M&L is often overshadowed by other RPGs, it wouldn't put OCs in the actual main party so players would not move their focus away from Mario bros.

 

[Mcmadness]

Honestly I don't care what they do so long as it's fun and well made.

 

[Rolla Koopa]

Probably straying even further from the original two in ways I can't imagine.
Anyway, as an enjoyer of having enemies as partners, in the meantime I might be playing a certain fanmade Mario Pokemon crossover that came out recently