More official "echo fighters" --- character texture swaps?
- Thread starter Dorayaki
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yoshidude99
Yoshidude is here
Re: One model for more than one player?
They should be in them in cutscenes too
They should be in them in cutscenes too
Dorayaki
King Bowser
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- #28
Re: One model for more than one player?
but it's very different from another character whom fans may hope to engage
the condition is that the character must be similar with the main one from SMB, in the body and way of attack
we don't say who have the "qualifications" to be in SMB (also Daisy, Birdo and others aren't major members?)
such as Mario's relatives in TV show never appear in game, but Mario can be hacked into them for similar looking (uh...)
so the condition may be from same series and similar body shape
color change is easy, suit change is considerableNorthern Verve said:
but it's very different from another character whom fans may hope to engage
the condition is that the character must be similar with the main one from SMB, in the body and way of attack
we don't say who have the "qualifications" to be in SMB (also Daisy, Birdo and others aren't major members?)
such as Mario's relatives in TV show never appear in game, but Mario can be hacked into them for similar looking (uh...)
if it doesn't matter simply altering tex but completely different is meaningless in gameOrnithologist Mario said:
so the condition may be from same series and similar body shape
SonicMario
Star Spirit
Re: One model for more than one player?
They might be major in Mario Spin-Offs. But no, Daisy and Birdo don't have a history important enough to be a playable character on their own in the Smash series.
Dorayaki said:
They might be major in Mario Spin-Offs. But no, Daisy and Birdo don't have a history important enough to be a playable character on their own in the Smash series.
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Re: One model for more than one player?
Waluigi was more involved that Birdo and Daisy, even though both Daisy and Birdo appeared in a mainstream game. Daisy and Birdo are just trophies in that game (not counting the recolor).
Waluigi was more involved that Birdo and Daisy, even though both Daisy and Birdo appeared in a mainstream game. Daisy and Birdo are just trophies in that game (not counting the recolor).
Dorayaki
King Bowser
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- #32
Re: One model for more than one player?
as Marios series hold a concept of "main character group", it's not like other games with clear major and minor roles
probelms like allstar main games depnd on Mario staff themselves to solve, not doing with SSB here
uh, I didn't remember Birdo is from late history.....Northern Verve said:
it's getting off-topic so maybe halt hereOrnithologist Mario said:
as Marios series hold a concept of "main character group", it's not like other games with clear major and minor roles
probelms like allstar main games depnd on Mario staff themselves to solve, not doing with SSB here
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Re: More official "costumes" (character texture swaps)?
lol i see one of my old aliases
If Project M and other independent modders can do this, then surely, a AAA company can?Super Smash Misty said:
lol i see one of my old aliases
Re: More official "costumes" --- character texture swaps?
Although Miis are back, I wonder if they are going to have Miis don different costumes as recolours, or have a customisable menu specifically for designing Mii costumes.
Wow, you're back! ...though I joined after you became inactive so I doubt we've interacted.
Thank you for reading.
Although Miis are back, I wonder if they are going to have Miis don different costumes as recolours, or have a customisable menu specifically for designing Mii costumes.
Dorayaki said:
Wow, you're back! ...though I joined after you became inactive so I doubt we've interacted.
Thank you for reading.
Dorayaki
King Bowser
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- #41
Re: More official "costumes" --- character texture swaps?
Yeah, not really activated when SSB4 was released. We mentioned Dr. Mario and Rosalina and they ended up as independent fighters in SSB4. Not sure about the Kooaplins, would they also be called echo fighters in SSB5?winstein said:
Re: More official "costumes" --- character texture swaps?
No, I don't think so. They have already been shown alongside Bowser Jr. in the trailer, which is a sign that they will once again be alternate costumes. Well, at least Daisy's her own character rather than an alternate costume of Peach (meaning she gets her own set of different colour palettes).
Thank you for reading.
Dorayaki said:
No, I don't think so. They have already been shown alongside Bowser Jr. in the trailer, which is a sign that they will once again be alternate costumes. Well, at least Daisy's her own character rather than an alternate costume of Peach (meaning she gets her own set of different colour palettes).
Thank you for reading.
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
Re: More official "costumes" --- character texture swaps?
I've seen this a few times and I want to just clear things up for other people. Not calling you out, just using you as an example. Echo Fighters are NOT costumes. In fact, we've had them for awhile now. Nearly 1 to 1 clones have been a thing since Melee. We just called them clones. Now they just have an official term with less negative connotation. Dark Pit and Lucina seem to have received very few changes since Smash 4 so they're still pretty close to their parent characters aside from a few numerical values and visual touches.
It seems echo fighters are distinct from semi-clones like Lucas, Falco, Luigi, Ganondorf, Roy, Toon Link, and even people who I'd still consider regular clones like Young Link, Pichu, and Dr. Mario. Those three may be further de-cloned still. It seems the echo term is being saved for clones who are almost identical moveset wise. Lucina shares all her animations but the damage values on all moves are different. And the two Pits differ only in final Smash and bow properties, and a few random properties on moves. We'll see what Daisy is like. We haven't seen her use vegetables at all which is interesting.
What's important to note is that semi-clones, clones, and echoes, are all given separate slots on the select screen. That's because even if they're minute, there exist small differences that get them classified as their own characters. Compare this to Alph and the Koopalings. They are identical in every way to their "parents" aside from model and the way their name appears. They are not semi-clones, clones, or even echoes. They're costumes. They're functionally no different than Kirby's blue costume is to Kirby.
Hope that helps explain things. I'm personally glad they're acknowledging clones and hope that the negative stigma goes away. I bet we'll see a few more echoes. It's a shame Alph didn't make it. The lack of assist trophies for Dark Samus, Isabelle, and Shadow, plus the presence of the Knuckles AT seem very telling and I wouldn't be shocked if those three made it in as echoes. It'd be a shame since Dark Samus has a lot of potential to be unique. I could also seem Impa as an echo, but sh eoculd also be so much more.
That being said, I do not want Dixie as an echo at all. She deserves to be her own thing, and she would not fit Diddy's animalistic style at all. That being said, I'm pessimistic about her chances as a non-echo.
No.Dorayaki said:
I've seen this a few times and I want to just clear things up for other people. Not calling you out, just using you as an example. Echo Fighters are NOT costumes. In fact, we've had them for awhile now. Nearly 1 to 1 clones have been a thing since Melee. We just called them clones. Now they just have an official term with less negative connotation. Dark Pit and Lucina seem to have received very few changes since Smash 4 so they're still pretty close to their parent characters aside from a few numerical values and visual touches.
It seems echo fighters are distinct from semi-clones like Lucas, Falco, Luigi, Ganondorf, Roy, Toon Link, and even people who I'd still consider regular clones like Young Link, Pichu, and Dr. Mario. Those three may be further de-cloned still. It seems the echo term is being saved for clones who are almost identical moveset wise. Lucina shares all her animations but the damage values on all moves are different. And the two Pits differ only in final Smash and bow properties, and a few random properties on moves. We'll see what Daisy is like. We haven't seen her use vegetables at all which is interesting.
What's important to note is that semi-clones, clones, and echoes, are all given separate slots on the select screen. That's because even if they're minute, there exist small differences that get them classified as their own characters. Compare this to Alph and the Koopalings. They are identical in every way to their "parents" aside from model and the way their name appears. They are not semi-clones, clones, or even echoes. They're costumes. They're functionally no different than Kirby's blue costume is to Kirby.
Hope that helps explain things. I'm personally glad they're acknowledging clones and hope that the negative stigma goes away. I bet we'll see a few more echoes. It's a shame Alph didn't make it. The lack of assist trophies for Dark Samus, Isabelle, and Shadow, plus the presence of the Knuckles AT seem very telling and I wouldn't be shocked if those three made it in as echoes. It'd be a shame since Dark Samus has a lot of potential to be unique. I could also seem Impa as an echo, but sh eoculd also be so much more.
That being said, I do not want Dixie as an echo at all. She deserves to be her own thing, and she would not fit Diddy's animalistic style at all. That being said, I'm pessimistic about her chances as a non-echo.
Basically, an echo shares roughly the basic attributes of a character. This is Nintendos OFFICIAL definition.
Walk and run speed
General knockback
General proportions
General attack power
Basic attack animations
Jump Height
Weight
However, echo characters have gameplay quirks that seperate them from the original fighter, like Lucinas sword or Dark Pits arrows.
Echo characters can have any animation or gameplay attributes changed if it suits them more if the developers wish. For example, Daisy is the only echo to get new idle animations and she has tweaked animations for Parasol and Toad. Dark Pit has a completely different Final
Dr Mario is not an echo because he is stronger and slower. Pichu is weaker and faster and has widly different proportions to Pikachu.
Someone like Dixie or Shadow would be perfect for this classification since they share basic proportions, abilites and attributes, but are different enough to introduce a gameplay quirk.
Walk and run speed
General knockback
General proportions
General attack power
Basic attack animations
Jump Height
Weight
However, echo characters have gameplay quirks that seperate them from the original fighter, like Lucinas sword or Dark Pits arrows.
Echo characters can have any animation or gameplay attributes changed if it suits them more if the developers wish. For example, Daisy is the only echo to get new idle animations and she has tweaked animations for Parasol and Toad. Dark Pit has a completely different Final
Dr Mario is not an echo because he is stronger and slower. Pichu is weaker and faster and has widly different proportions to Pikachu.
Someone like Dixie or Shadow would be perfect for this classification since they share basic proportions, abilites and attributes, but are different enough to introduce a gameplay quirk.
Toka Hebizuka
玲瓏とした歔欷
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I don't see why Dixie would ever be a clone of Diddy.memoryman3 said:
SonicMario
Star Spirit
Propeller Knight said:
To be fair, all Echoes so far could very well be unique if they really tried. Dark Pit I hear usually used different weapons from Pit in Uprising. I'm sure someone who's more into Fire Emblem then I am could do good research on what a unique Lucina could be like. And Daisy did have some potential abilities shown in the spin-off titles that if she had gotten in as more full-fledged character might of helped her stand out from Peach.
Granted, I do get why Dixie being an echo of Diddy being a disappointment since it would likely mean unable to use her signature flight ability with her hair. It'd be like making Tails an Echo of Sonic, flight is part of their identity as characters. Take that away and their inclusion feels kind of hollow
But Echo Fighters kinda seem to be those characters that wouldn't get in any other way. So it's a bit of a double edged sword, they're in but they may not completely reflect their characters.
That said I do think Dixie if she's in would at least be a semi-clone off Diddy and have her flight ability. Plus she has a good enough resume to be her own fighter for sure.
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
I'd rather Dixie not be in than be an echo fighter.
Aside from a few visual differences, echoes have identical movesets. That would mean a Dixie moveset that doesn't involve her hair, and that's a travesty. Having her use the jetpack would also be dumb and out of character. Plus Diddy's animalistic style does not fit Dixie at all. Dixie deserves to be a Lucas level clone or better yet her own character. The roster being finalized in 2015 gives me hope that her appearance in Tropical Freeze would be considered to give her a unique slot. But if we're getting King K. Rool then I don't see us getting two brand new, unique DK fighters.
Aside from a few visual differences, echoes have identical movesets. That would mean a Dixie moveset that doesn't involve her hair, and that's a travesty. Having her use the jetpack would also be dumb and out of character. Plus Diddy's animalistic style does not fit Dixie at all. Dixie deserves to be a Lucas level clone or better yet her own character. The roster being finalized in 2015 gives me hope that her appearance in Tropical Freeze would be considered to give her a unique slot. But if we're getting King K. Rool then I don't see us getting two brand new, unique DK fighters.
Shyghoul
Peace be with you, whoever you are.
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yeah they could've easily given Lucina a lances/javelins/spears or something since she can use those after being promoted/having her class changed in FEA. hell she has an alt in FEH dedicated to lance usage. HOWEVER even in the FE series she's still much more well known for using her falchion so it actually does make more sense for it to be her main smash weapon.Northern Verve said:
also while Dark Pit is more known for his staff (i dont even remember if he used anything else in Uprising). Pit himself has access to staffs as well so they technically could give BOTH of them staffs and it would be p accurate still. granted Pit's bow is still more of a signature thing for him since that was his main weapon in the original Kid Icarus iirc so i see why they based his neutral moves around that (and by extension, Dark Pit). it's also interesting to note there's a plethora of other weapons Pit can use in uprising, albeit a decent amount them already got into Smash as items
Propeller Knight said:
She has very similar proportions and attributes to Diddy even in Tropical Freeze. The reason why the clones are clones is because they resemble the original character very closely. Dixie was designed to play similarly to Diddy to the point where they could be tag-teamed. There are a few differences, like I imagine some of her attacks will make her use hair, and maybe her up B would be higher to reference her flight, but pretty much all of Diddys toolkit fits her well.
Also, we got no new semi-clones since Brawl.