Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

That did happen but for all of 3 seconds, and it was just using that to try and escape before they incinerated it. It wasn't very big either, just head sized.

And to say it was the most notable form it took in the movie is purely subjective, it took many different forms, which was what appealed to people as a horror monster, it had no identifiable form, it just morphed and twisted the human body into all sorts of fucked up shit.
 
As I said earlier, opinions formed from lack of knowledge do you no favours.

Also watch John Carpenter's The Thing, great movie.
 
I feel I should be able to trust SMW for things like this, but with trying non-Nintendo RPGs that's a different matter since I just don't feel that I could ever have the same love for a non-Mario game as I do for SPM, TTYD, BIS, or SSS. However I intend to try Undertale and possibly Delatrune at some point in the future.

Prefer Frozen II thanks.
 
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I thought that way once, you just have to find the right thing that clicks.
 
I mean if you enjoy that stuff then that's fine but it will make your opinions look closeted to others if thats all you've experienced.

Well some others anyway.
 
You will when arguments break out, and believe me, they will.
 
Sure you can, but when you go around telling others about how AMAZING,DEEP and ORIGINAL it's characters are, it's not going to hold up under scrutiny.
 
As I have said before, I am not arguing that the Mario RPG series is the best place amongst all media or even video gaming to go for a deep story, striking themes/locations, or original characters, I'm saying the fact that they appear in a Mario game is truly amazing and has a unique charm to it, to such an extent that I simply cannot rank the four aforementioned games as any less than my four favourite games of all time even if they aren't exactly my favourites when it comes to actual gameplay.
 
And to me when I see that it just comes off like a bad fanfic. You know like those ones you see people write about kids show that take the source material way more seriously than it was ever meant to.
 
Mcmadness said:
And to me when I see that it just comes off like a bad fanfic. You know like those ones you see people write about kids show that take the source material way more seriously than it was ever meant to.
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I see nothing wrong either with serious fanfics of lighthearted kids' shows or with appreciating the deep story elements of the Mario RPGs. At least for Super Paper Mario and TTYD, they truly were designed to be artworks in many ways beyond gameplay which I think they fulfilled excellently.
 
I do. It makes it extremely laughable and stupid.

And they presumably put as much into those games as anyone else who cares about making games puts effort into it. Even sticker star has a lot of effort put into it despite it's blandness.
 
Mcmadness said:
I do. It makes it extremely laughable and stupid.
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But it's not wrong if no-one is offended or hurt by such things
Mcmadness said:
they presumably put as much into those games as anyone else who cares about making games puts effort into it. Even sticker star has a lot of effort put into it despite it's blandness.
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But Sticker Star was always intended to be a different game to the first three and the devs decided to step down the story. If they had used the same amount of effort with the same goal as the first three had story-wise, we may well have had another epic Paper Mario tale.
 
MiracleDinner said:
Am I not entitled to just respectfully say that I don't feel interest in many non Nintendo games and that I'm not obliged to try any if I don't feel like it?
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You are 100 percent allowed to do so and there is nothing really wrong with it etc. Although out of genuine curiousity I am wondering.....why exactly? I mean from post history it doesn't even look like you've even played most of NINTENDO'S RPGS (correct me if i'm wrong) let alone non-nintendo ones. And no before you get uber defensive or w/e I do not mean this in an attacking way but more I pose to you this question from a personal want to understand a demographic of people that I do not understand as of now. Like, there's a ton of good games outside of Mario and I uh personally don't understand what would be the point in arbitrarily limiting yourself to just Mariopgs when there's a bunch of undiscovered/unplayed gems out there. I mean you're not even the only person i'v encountered like this there's plenty of other nintendo purists out there but i've never understood why exactly people choose to enforce restrictions on themselves for no definable reason that i'm aware of. So tldr if you could elaborate to me here or in the dm's on why the thought of touching other games seems sacrilegious to you i'd greatly appreciate it fam.
 
I know it wasn't directed at me, but I think I can answer that question since that is very much a mindset I share. Personally I feel I've outgrown my ability to get into new game universes, for some reason. I fixated on Mario at such an early age and even with series like Smash, I played because it had Mario characters & stages. Every time I've tried an RPG from another series it's felt weird and foreign to me, and I never got into it. Other than that most of the games I've gotten into outside Mario have been related to non-gaming franchises like SpongeBob, and stem entirely from my fondness of the original media it came from.

I can easily enjoy new movies and I'd say my movie pallet is far more varied, but I've just never been able to get into non-Mario games for years.
 
Shygul said:
You are 100 percent allowed to do so and there is nothing really wrong with it etc. Although out of genuine curiousity I am wondering.....why exactly? I mean from post history it doesn't even look like you've even played most of NINTENDO'S RPGS (correct me if i'm wrong) let alone non-nintendo ones. And no before you get uber defensive or w/e I do not mean this in an attacking way but more I pose to you this question from a personal want to understand a demographic of people that I do not understand as of now. Like, there's a ton of good games outside of Mario and I uh personally don't understand what would be the point in arbitrarily limiting yourself to just Mariopgs when there's a bunch of undiscovered/unplayed gems out there. I mean you're not even the only person i'v encountered like this there's plenty of other nintendo purists out there but i've never understood why exactly people choose to enforce restrictions on themselves for no definable reason that i'm aware of. So tldr if you could elaborate to me here or in the dm's on why the thought of touching other games seems sacrilegious to you i'd greatly appreciate it fam.
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I think of it this way: if an author famed for writing a book about deeply emotional romance published a deeply emotional book about romance, sure it might be decent but it wouldn't be anything especially notable. But if a children's cartoon famed for its lightheartedness published exactly the same plot, it would be so much better and more noteworthy because it's so unbelievable, and to see those familar characters engaged in a much more striking plot is so much more heart-touching than just a bunch of arbitrary humans.

I feel the same way about Mario RPGs vs non Nintendo RPGs, though on a lesser scale. As I say I am sure they are decent and I would like to try some of them but it's just not the same as seeing a wonderful RPG world filled with original characters, funny dialogue, and emotional plotlines, in a world-famous franchise almost exclusively thought of in terms of the same plot and characters over and over again and no emotional depth whatsoever. I used to think this was how Mario was and when I first bought Super Paper Mario I just thought it would be exactly like all the other Super Mario games except with a papery artstyle and it's because of how unbelievably wrong I was that that game has held up as my favourite for more than over half my lifetime. It's another good thing that the plot also revolves around familiar characters whom we are familiar with, to see them with much more fleshed out personalities, dialogue, and plot roles.

Mario is just sort of my passion and I always find it easier to attach myself to a game which belongs to my favourite franchise even if it is a perfectly alright game on its own merits.
 
MiracleDinner said:
But it's not wrong if no-one is offended or hurt by such things
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For fanfics no but when it starts showing up in the games themselves it makes things very unpleasant.

It's like a less extreme version of Bomberman act Zero.

MiracleDinner said:
But Sticker Star was always intended to be a different game to the first three and the devs decided to step down the story. If they had used the same amount of effort with the same goal as the first three had story-wise, we may well have had another epic Paper Mario tale.
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Different or not the fact of the matter is they put a lot of effort into it. Which is my point, what you praise is not unique to them in anyway. Apart from having plots even the concept of "original characters" is nothing special in the Mario franchise at large. Almost every Mario game series has made new characters at one point or another, hell we just got a bunch with Luigi's Mansion 3.
 
Mcmadness said:
when it starts showing up in the games themselves it makes things very unpleasant.
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I would argue otherwise, maybe there are people going around praising SMB2's plotline and not feeling they need anything else and sure whatever floats their boat.

Mcmadness said:
It's like a less extreme version of Bomberman act Zero.
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I don't think this comparison helped me.

Mcmadness said:
Which is my point, what you praise is not unique to them in anyway. Apart from having plots even the concept of "original characters" is nothing special in the Mario franchise at large. Almost every Mario game series has made new characters at one point or another, hell we just got a bunch with Luigi's Mansion 3.
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Of course they're not completely unique to the RPGs, as I said in another post SMG's plot is very popular also. But if you ask me the first three Paper Mario games are easily the best Mario games when it comes to story elements.

I know I'm eight years younger but I somewhat agree with @Vivian as by the ages of 14-16 Mario games more or less solidified themselves as my go-to video games, Minecraft exempt.
 
MiracleDinner said:
Haven't watched the 1982 film myself but I trust the above is correct.
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That's not good practice for critical thinking. Try not "trusting" anything you read on the internet especially if it's friendly to your biases and confirms your opinion that whatever Mimi is is a fantastic and deep reference. You should always verify that sort of information especially on an open-edit wiki. Our wiki had instances where it stated that Ukikis resemble Rainbow Monkeys from Kids Next Door, the Francine character from Family Guy resembles Peach, that New Super Mario Bros. Wii is a reference to Super Mario Bros. 3: Happy Birthday, Princess Toadstool!, so it's always possible that a reference being claimed is false or misleading.
MiracleDinner said:
I think of it this way: if an author famed for writing a book about deeply emotional romance published a deeply emotional book about romance, sure it might be decent but it wouldn't be anything especially notable. But if a children's cartoon famed for its lightheartedness published exactly the same plot, it would be so much better and more noteworthy because it's so unbelievable, and to see those familar characters engaged in a much more striking plot is so much more heart-touching than just a bunch of arbitrary humans.

I feel the same way about Mario RPGs vs non Nintendo RPGs, though on a lesser scale. As I say I am sure they are decent and I would like to try some of them but it's just not the same as seeing a wonderful RPG world filled with original characters, funny dialogue, and emotional plotlines, in a world-famous franchise almost exclusively thought of in terms of the same plot and characters over and over again and no emotional depth whatsoever. I used to think this was how Mario was and when I first bought Super Paper Mario I just thought it would be exactly like all the other Super Mario games except with a papery artstyle and it's because of how unbelievably wrong I was that that game has held up as my favourite for more than over half my lifetime. It's another good thing that the plot also revolves around familiar characters whom we are familiar with, to see them with much more fleshed out personalities, dialogue, and plot roles.

Mario is just sort of my passion and I always find it easier to attach myself to a game which belongs to my favourite franchise even if it is a perfectly alright game on its own merits.
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To be fair, I do relate to the attachment of Mario characters that are the driving reasons I even play the games in the first place. I'm actually very, very attached to Mario as a character to the point I mod him in games and the games suddenly feel so much more fun. So I relate to the reluctance of playing other games since they lack the characters and everything's more alien. We find comfort in the familiar.

But the thing about Super Paper Mario is that it doesn't really involve familiar characters you like. Mario himself is just a vehicle to drive the plot. No Mario characters cause the world to implode. No Mario characters ultimately save the world. It's all just a redemption arc for one character while Mario and friends are railroaded into a prophecy that's out their control. The others are also treated like side characters or minions that are manipulated by the original characters. All Mario characters are actually subservient to the main characters.

That's not what I like from a Mario game personally. It's what turns me away from it as well as the gameplay being reported as repetitive and the plot itself is out of place and flawed. I want something more like Luigi's Mansion 3, maybe except Mario getting trapped in a painting, where it's straightforward, simple, and takes a backseat to the character interactions and the gameplay. Heck, I love the instances of more subtle story-telling rather than straight-out cutscenes. Like you can check each character's rooms and you can just fill in what happened to them as well as notice what character traits are present while you loot them. That counts as story-telling without the cutscene or narration, and I like to see that in more Mario games. Heck why not have Luigi's Mansion where you hear an escape from the painting and then you see footprints and broken furniture and a hat (maybe like in the first one but has more coherence to it unlike being randomly found in a washing machine) and some food stains on the wall and a Mario-shaped hole on the floor, and you find some beaten up ghosts.
 
Some games like Bioshock have their stories tell out in other creative ways than just exposition dumps and characters blah blah blahing cliches, purely through lore and implications alone. I adore story-telling through atmosphere, and Luigi's Mansion is I think the closest example of a Mario game that does something like it. The first Luigi's Mansion was pretty atmospheric, one of the most memorable levels in the game for me was in the observatory and also outside, where the background music is serene, but also melancholic (as opposed to the threatening feel inside the mansion), and you hear Mario's faint voice ringing through while you're in the backyard with the well in it. I think that gave me more emotion about how isolated Luigi was in that mansion and he is there only to rescue his beloved trapped brother than yet another forbidden love story with Mario and friends forcibly being thrown into it because "lol prophecy".

Like, how I feel about Super Paper Mario's story is the same of how I feel for Sonic 06's plot. At least Sonic 06 is hilarious in how serious it tries to take itself and how try hard the characters are, and then you go talk to a human in the main hub and watch them stuck in an endless loop of dialogue or whatever other broken mess that game has.
 
Baby Luigi Rescuing Mario said:
yet another forbidden love story with Mario and friends forcibly being thrown into it because "lol prophecy".
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Count Bleck is my favourite video game character easily because true forbidden love stories have been used in many media prior to SPM but never before in a Mario game, at least not on this scale. And it was truly his presentation and atmosphere that made him so special for me.

E.g. how he is presented at first as a stereotypical heartless villain but then he says "Just as no-one can ease the tempest that rages in my suffering heart" and you start to wonder why and then as the game progresses you realise how hurt he is on the inside and you finally draw the dots with the pictureless stories between chapters and it just comes together so elegantly.

Also his music is so baddass and the way that Mitome, Sekigawa, and Baba use his melody can vary so much to perfectly harmonise with the plot. At first it is mystical ("The Evil Count Bleck") as you do not know him at that point and then it is sort of catchy with "Count Bleck's plan". Next there is Castle Bleck, which displays his dramatically evil side whilst also encompassing his fragility with the clock from the Memory theme. His battle theme is awesome and it captures the drama of what at first seems a final boss battle alongside his madness as he realises that he's screwed everything up but he feels he's gone too far to stop. Finally we have Promise and Bounding through time which turn his theme into a happy and slower theme to show that he has reformed from his evil ways that never truly represented who he was at heart.

All this from a Mario game which I first looked at and thought of as a gimmicky shallow platformer cloning NSMBW but adding papery graphics. It wouldn't be special if I saw it in a book or a film, but in such an unexpected place is too amazing to not be my favourite game of all time.

Also the incorporation of Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Luigi was much better thought out than "Mario and friends forcibly being thrown into it because "lol prophecy"" for reasons already stated but also because I outright object to @LeftyGreenMario 's arguments - Mario and co. do tie into it more than just being "a vehicle to drive the plot." Look at Mario and Tippi and how their relationship grows over the course of the game and it's things like her saying "It's just you and me now ... reminds me of how we first started" that make me really appreciate that arc of the plot. And how the unbelieveableness of the plot isn't immediately evident because you first think that Bowser just kidnapped Peach and that's when Bleck appears and all hell breaks loose. That kind of irony wouldn't be possible if Bowser hadn't been in there. And one appreciable part of the plot is how Mario starts alone in a truly out-of-this world atmosphere and it seems really mysterious but finally he reunites with Peach. Then heck even Bowser joins the group which is the first time I'd ever played as him and it was so comical to see the three of them paired up on a hero team. And then you think that Luigi's also going to join in in the next chapter but noooo.. he becomes an evil supervillain!

I mean in a way I sort of agree with the statement that Count Bleck is truly the main character and Mario isn't but I hate when people just dismiss the former as an unremarkable forbidden love tale when it's much more than that especially considering what a remarkable place it has come from. I just don't necessarily see anything wrong with the deviation from "everything's about the Mario bros." vibe which most Mario games and possibly even most Mario RPGs (haven't played them all) seem to go for.

With all of the above being said, I'd give the plot of Super Paper Mario a 10/10 and an extremely strong preference for this over the shallow plots Mario usually has and what Paper Mario became next.

As for everyone mentioning the Luigi's Mansion games I haven't played any of them nor know much about them. I'd like to try the first two but I don't have a Switch nor the financial means to buy one so that will have to wait.
 
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