Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

[Jackie Frost]

Luigi in SPM was terrible. I mean Mr L is a funny novelty for a bit but this game was the most Luigi has ever done in this series and he spends most of it not as himself and is only around party wise for 2 chapters, one of which you don't even get to use him for the finale.

I'm not going to deny you the right to dislike SPM's presentation of Luigi but I personally adore and whether you like him or hate him there's no denying that Mr. L is hugely popular, which I would say was with good reason. Having him as a villain was certain to be entertaining to people of all ages and give us a unique look at a gentleman-thief persona of Luigi but who still seems to remember Mario (e.g. by calling him "Mr. Jumpsallthetime")

 

[Mcmadness]

Mr L is hardly "super popular" like most Mario rpg folk he has a loud but relatively small fanbase.


He also wasn't a gentleman thief type either, he was a Tatsunoko-esque character with the exaggerated poses, the mask and the robot he pilots.

 

[Jackie Frost]

Mr L is hardly "super popular" like most Mario rpg folk he has a loud but relatively small fanbase.


He also wasn't a gentleman thief type either, he was a Tatsunoko-esque character with the exaggerated poses, the mask and the robot he pilots.

Well considering how underrepresented the Mario RPGs are imo he did very well.

Haven't heard of "Tatsunoko." Meh, didn't think about that comparison too much but he's still really cool to me.

 

[Mcmadness]

The rpgs are as "under represented" as any other Mario spin off. In that they aren't. They get as much attention as anything else that isn't absurdly popular like Mario Kart.

Tatsunoko is an anime company that made a lot of major series that many other things have parodied and made homages to over the years. The fact that you don't know doesn't surprise me.

 

[Jackie Frost]

The rpgs are as "under represented" as any other Mario spin off. In that they aren't. They get as much attention as anything else that isn't absurdly popular like Mario Kart.

I get that compared to a lot of VG franchises they do get a lot of attention and after all Mario is the most famous VG franchise in the world, but still... they just have this awesomely unique charm to them that I haven't found, and doubt I can find, in anything else, and that they're just overshadowed by shallow driving games and platformers, the former of which I have never really been into but will give a second chance per MK8D.

Have you read my VG fav list?

 

[Mcmadness]

It's Mario, it's "shallow" by nature, including the rpgs. The only reason the rpgs come off not as such to you as due to the genre by it's very nature requiring less reflexes and more basic number crunching for stats and puzzles to be solved.

And you make no effort to actually explore outside of them so you'll never find this "unique charm" you think they have.

 

[Jackie Frost]

It's Mario, it's "shallow" by nature, including the rpgs. The only reason the rpgs come off not as such to you as due to the genre by it's very nature requiring less reflexes and more basic number crunching for stats and puzzles to be solved.

And you make no effort to actually explore outside of them so you'll never find this "unique charm" you think they have.

I was talking about the story, characters, dialogue, enviroments, atmospheres, and music rather than gameplay mainly there but if I am talking gameplay I actually find games such as TTYD the perfect balance between too simple and too complex. Though SPM when I was younger was cool for that as well in that it was not at all complicated but unique with a few RPG elements thrown in there and I still find it tolerable at least nowadays.

Well not really, it's just that I don't feel I can attach myself to non Mario RPGs as much. I tried Zelda and it was good but not the same. I'm trying Fire Emblem some time as well but IDK. I just don't feel I can deeply attach myself to an RPG from a franchise famed for being deep and fantasy-like and doesn't involve that beloved plumber. I mean I've said this several times before but you get the point I hope.

 

[Mcmadness]

Even the stories are "shallow" basic stuff as well. You have the good guys and the badguys who are trying to takeover/destroy the world because evil. Or in Count Bleck's case because sad. There is no real moral complexity, no deeper meanings, no intricate political or philosophical themes to be explored.

It's all simple and basic because these games were meant to be played by anyone of any age, including small children.

Also for somebody like you I'd probably recommend more action oriented rpgs like the Tales of series or the mana series. Those are pretty good places to start.

 

[Jackie Frost]

Even the stories are "shallow" basic stuff as well. You have the good guys and the badguys who are trying to takeover/destroy the world because evil. Or in Count Bleck's case because sad. There is no real moral complexity, no deeper meanings, no intricate political or philosophical themes to be explored.

It's all simple and basic because these games were meant to be played by anyone of any age, including small children.

Also for somebody like you I'd probably recommend more action oriented rpgs like the Tales of series or the mana series. Those are pretty good places to start.

I said, it's deep for a Mario game and this makes it quite special to many including myself.

Yes, I appreciated SPM and BIS as a small child and I have grown up to continue loving them. That is the kind of magic Mario RPGs have, to entertain a child who will retain nostalgia decades into the future. I'm not sure playing Final Fantasy or something would have been able to pull me in as much even at that age.

Ok I might give it a thought but I doubt anything as big as Paper Mario will come out of this. Don't have a Playstation though so that might be a limiting factor. I was going to go for Radiant Dawn (same composers as SPM + already have the hardware to play it)

 

[Koops]

"Deep for a Mario game" isn't exactly saying much. It still isn't deep.

I haven't played Radiant Dawn myself but its story is actually pretty good imo. A lot of things happening in the world, multiple POVs, and it's a rather complex development (I know you even can unlock quite a bit of story if you play a second time). Oh and the narration is voice-acted.

Although if you can I'd definitely recommend playing Path of Radiance as well. Really amazing game. When I say a game surpassed Mario Galaxy in my list of faves, you know that game did something.

 

[Ray Trace]

they're just overshadowed by shallow driving games

mario kart isn't shallow

 

[Jackie Frost]

mario kart isn't shallow

I can only speak for MKW so far but that game has zero plot, zero original characters, made no interesting revisions to any existing characters, had utterly forgettable music and design, awful controls, repetitive maps, uuughh I won't moan any further about my least favourite Mario game that I own.

 

[Ray Trace]

did you seriously play a mario kart game expecting a plot and character development?

how would you expect a mario kart plot to go?

an evil go-kart that wants to take over the world?

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Zero original characters

 

[Toka Hebizuka]

zero plot, zero original characters, made no interesting revisions to any existing characters

Yes, because character development and story is a priority in a racing games, that's also a spin-off off a series that is not known for having character development or stories.

had utterly forgettable music and design

What do you mean by design? (music is very subjective so that's a fair criticism)

awful controls

buy a classic or GC controller

repetitive maps

Each track is visually distinct, and has unique gimmicks to make them more interesting. Moo Moo Meadow's cows that slowly move, Mushroom Gorge's mushrooms, Koopa Cape's water stream, Grumble Volcano falling apart, and Moonview Highway's vehicles that drive across the entire track are just are few examples of these gimmicks. The only track that I can think that doesn't have one is Luigi Circuit.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

did you seriously play a mario kart game expecting a plot and character development?

how would you expect a mario kart plot to go?

an evil go-kart that wants to take over the world?

Don't make me ask for a plot where said kart also steals the mystic car keys and causes everyone to race uncontrollably, and you have to race to cross a river.

 

[Ray Trace]

oh and maybe that evil kart is masterminded by a giant evil pig who wants to take over an island

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Just give me an actual new Diddy Kong Racing crossover with Mario, and we'll be golden as those balloons.

 

[Ray Trace]

we need a new mario kart game with a plot having an alien wanting to turn mushroom kingdom into a parking lot.

 

[Toka Hebizuka]

I think this is a good opportunity to post this again:

Spoiler: Mario Kart Plot

Long ago there was a go-kart war to get a legendary kart for racing, in the end the winning side decided to destroy it, turning it into seven pieces that only a clash between light and dark could summon

Modern day Mushroom Kingdom, Peach is unveiling a new theme park based around go-karting, when suddenly a mysterious cloaked figure appears, takes over the theme park and it tells Mario and friends that if they want their theme park back they must first beat his trials.

Each World is a zone of the theme park, taken over by villain of the Mario series and turned into a death trap more reminiscent of their character. At the end one of the characters must fight the character that took over the zone, Mario Vs. Wario, Luigi Vs. Waluigi, Peach Vs. Bowser, DK Vs. K. Rool, etc.

At the end of the game the mysterious hooded figure reveals that the whole reason he made the heroes fight the bosses was to cause a clash between light and dark, which would summon a piece of the legendary go-kart. He teleports each of the hero's piece of the kart into his hand, and pieces them together to summon the legendary go-kart. He then challenges the heroes to a race, but before the race starts he takes of his cloak and reveals himself to be Bluster Kong, he then transforms into Leo Luster and then one of the playable characters must race him.

In the end the heroes win, the theme park is returned to normal, and the power of friendship turns out to be more powerful then a mysterious go-kart.

 

[Jackie Frost]

I'm not saying it's inherently a bad game because it didn't have a plot, I'm saying I might have liked it if it had one.

I was referring to visual design.

And I do have a CC Pro but I'm still unimpressed.

Eh, I just never particularly liked the maps and they get a bit stale after repeating them over and over.

I genuinely didn't know Baby Daisy was original to this game. But she isn't a favourite of mine by any means.

"Deep for a Mario game" isn't exactly saying much. It still isn't deep.

I've said this several times on Super Mario Boards before, but I just feel that I can't attach myself very much to non-Mario RPGs. I'm sure there are hundreds of non-Mario RPGs out there which have much deepter plots than SPM. But I just don't feel I could get into them very much.

If I wanted a deep plot I could play Final Fantasy. That has a deep plot as well, but of course it does, you expect it to. I used to think that all Mario games were just shallow and gimmicky and never had any depth whatsoever. Super Paper Mario is the game which proved that wrong to me and I was so positively shocked that I couldn't not love it and even to this day when I don't even enjoy the gameplay very much anymore, I still adore this game for the story, characters, dialogue, emotions, locations, atmospheres, and music which I have no doubt will give me incredible nostalgia for decades to come. The fact that this comes from a Mario game just makes it feel a lot more impressive and attachable to me and no doubt tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people who played SPM and loved it for its story - deep not by book standards, not by movie standards, not by wider RPG standards, but by Mario standards.

 

[Toka Hebizuka]

I'm not saying it's inherently a bad game because it didn't have a plot, I'm saying I might have liked it if it had one.

You're saying that you would like it if it had a plot, which means you don't like it because it doesn't have a plot. So yes, you did say it was bad because it didn't have a plot.

I was referring to visual design.

I do agree that the game doesn't look that good, it's not awful but it definitely doesn't look that good.

And I do have a CC Pro but I'm still unimpressed.

Eh, I just never particularly liked the maps and they get a bit stale after repeating them over and over.

I think this might be a case of just not liking this type of game, which I kind of suspected from your first post. Have you played any other racing games?

 

[Bowser II]

I can only speak for MKW so far but that game has zero plot, zero original characters, made no interesting revisions to any existing characters, had utterly forgettable music and design, awful controls, repetitive maps, uuughh I won't moan any further about my least favourite Mario game that I own.

A lot of these issues have been improved upon by more recent games, especially Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Beautiful music, smooth controls, more interesting track designs (and 16 more tracks than MKWii), a better battle mode, the list goes on and on. If you ever get the chance, definitely give it a try. But hey, if the gameplay just isn't for you, it isn't for you. You don't have a legal obligation to like Mario Kart.

 

[Mcmadness]

I think this is a good opportunity to post this again:

Spoiler: Mario Kart Plot

Long ago there was a go-kart war to get a legendary kart for racing, in the end the winning side decided to destroy it, turning it into seven pieces that only a clash between light and dark could summon

Modern day Mushroom Kingdom, Peach is unveiling a new theme park based around go-karting, when suddenly a mysterious cloaked figure appears, takes over the theme park and it tells Mario and friends that if they want their theme park back they must first beat his trials.

Each World is a zone of the theme park, taken over by villain of the Mario series and turned into a death trap more reminiscent of their character. At the end one of the characters must fight the character that took over the zone, Mario Vs. Wario, Luigi Vs. Waluigi, Peach Vs. Bowser, DK Vs. K. Rool, etc.

At the end of the game the mysterious hooded figure reveals that the whole reason he made the heroes fight the bosses was to cause a clash between light and dark, which would summon a piece of the legendary go-kart. He teleports each of the hero's piece of the kart into his hand, and pieces them together to summon the legendary go-kart. He then challenges the heroes to a race, but before the race starts he takes of his cloak and reveals himself to be Bluster Kong, he then transforms into Leo Luster and then one of the playable characters must race him.

In the end the heroes win, the theme park is returned to normal, and the power of friendship turns out to be more powerful then a mysterious go-kart.

Kingdom Karts.

Also I've played a few racing games with plots over the years. None of them have ever been very good since unless done in a movie that's not something you can derive much of a plot out of.

 

[Koops]

It's a racing game for heck's sake, though.

Like... yeah sure let's go find out about the plot of this game!