Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

Striker Mario said:
He has a good chance of appearing in another Donkey Kong, and we did get Fire Piranha Plant in Mario Tennis Aces in good timing after Piranha Plant was revealed playable, but we'll really see if Smash really meant anything. I kind of doubt Smash will propel Banjo to any sort of relevance, though
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I mean Banjo-Kazooie is good and all but it was dormant for over a decade following Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts which (in the nicest way I can put it) wasn't exactly what the fans wanted out of the series. Banjo & Kazooie really only got in Smash because they were heavily requested in the ballot among other things. I see their inclusion more like the inclusion of Mr. Game & Watch or Duck Hunt, a dead character from a dead franchise that was made playable because they had a big legacy.
 
personally i think the whole point of a review is to convey the reviewer's opinion on the game in question, there's no need to go into "objectivity" except to explain the premise/gameplay I suppose, but as soon as you use "good" or "bad" descriptors you start becoming subjective.

Seadrings are another species that should come back. And apologies for bringing this back to Paper Jam, but yet again I'm reminded how there was plenty of material to work with from both sides of the coin, but even if AlphaDream stuck to their side it would've been better than the whitewashed, safe & sterile game. Like, even the REMAKES found places to include characters that had been introduced since their original release, but PJ somehow couldn't.

Somehow I feel like writing an original plot makes it easier to write characters into it than a plot that had already been finalized? Further supports my headcanon that PJ is not the same world the other M&L games are, it's more or less the main series Mushroom Kingdom. Because even the M&L Mushroom Kingdom has those AlphaDream characters, such as Kylie & Broque, and of course Elite Trio, who are staples of M&L Bowser's army at this point (alongside the four Captains now, but they weren't created when PJ came out). Feels weird that everything established in this continuity just vanished for one game and we're expected to be totally understanding of it. Especially since it turned out to be the final 'original' game in the series, before AlphaDream went under and their characters may just be in total purgatory now :'(
 
Pokerninja2 said:
I mean Banjo-Kazooie is good and all but it was dormant for over a decade following Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts which (in the nicest way I can put it) wasn't exactly what the fans wanted out of the series. Banjo & Kazooie really only got in Smash because they were heavily requested in the ballot among other things. I see their inclusion more like the inclusion of Mr. Game & Watch or Duck Hunt, a dead character from a dead franchise that was made playable because they had a big legacy.
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King K. Rool also went missing for over a decade, I'd argue, and he also got in not because he's relevant at the time, but also from fan demand. But King K. Rool is from an IP whose owner has a good track record (unlike Banjo's owner), so he's more likely to be shown in a game again. I think it'll be strange to see him in a Mario spinoff though. The days of seeing Kritters as goalies and Tiny Kong batting against Baby Donkey Kong, I think they're past now.

Banjo's still pretty unique though. If he didn't have early connections with Nintendo, he'd fail to stand out among the other third party characters (aside maybe Joker who's too recent to have the same clout as Hero or Simon?) or at least he'd be difficult to justify over Crash or Rayman.

Count Bleck With Claws said:
personally i think the whole point of a review is to convey the reviewer's opinion on the game in question, there's no need to go into "objectivity" except to explain the premise/gameplay I suppose, but as soon as you use "good" or "bad" descriptors you start becoming subjective.

Seadrings are another species that should come back. And apologies for bringing this back to Paper Jam, but yet again I'm reminded how there was plenty of material to work with from both sides of the coin, but even if AlphaDream stuck to their side it would've been better than the whitewashed, safe & sterile game. Like, even the REMAKES found places to include characters that had been introduced since their original release, but PJ somehow couldn't.

Somehow I feel like writing an original plot makes it easier to write characters into it than a plot that had already been finalized? Further supports my headcanon that PJ is not the same world the other M&L games are, it's more or less the main series Mushroom Kingdom. Because even the M&L Mushroom Kingdom has those AlphaDream characters, such as Kylie & Broque, and of course Elite Trio, who are staples of M&L Bowser's army at this point (alongside the four Captains now, but they weren't created when PJ came out). Feels weird that everything established in this continuity just vanished for one game and we're expected to be totally understanding of it. Especially since it turned out to be the final 'original' game in the series, before AlphaDream went under and their characters may just be in total purgatory now :'(
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A review's more or less a thesis. A synthesis of facts and then applying your opinion to them. It's what makes media interesting I think. Opinion isn't a bad thing, and everyone has one. Just that, again, you need to know what words mean and try to apply appropriate lenses and context to things you're arguing.

Anyhow I know you want species to come back while new species are made, but what kind of vessel do we have right now? AlphaDream's long gone, who knows if Mario & Luigi is still around, who knows what the next developer will be. A studio closing doesn't mean the end of a series; Hudson Soft, the developer of Mario Parties up until DS, went under but we got new leadership under ND Cube and we then got Mario Party games afterward. Luigi's Mansion just introduced a bunch of new characters though, and every new Mario platformer we've gotten have technically gave us new characters and new locations. Just that they're usually restricted to the games they're introduced in. Like Cluckboom.

I don't know who came up with the idea of Paper Mario joining Mario & Luigi especially if you're not going to follow-through with it as fans expect. AlphaDream probably found the idea of two Bowsers, two Marios, two Peachs, two Magikoopas, a whopping two kinds of Toads, and so on, more interesting and feasible than a clash of worlds. I can't really say for sure if AlphaDream was just strapped for cash; they still somehow made sprites for all the characters that didn't have sprites before such as Broozer and Biddy.

I'm not sure what you mean by "original" plot. Even if AlphaDream can somehow conjure two worlds clashing better, you already know what to expect. Two sides, first bickering, joining to beat a big side. Or good sides joining to beat the bad sides, with wacky differences causing mayhem at first. What else can you really do?

You call it mainstream Mushroom Kingdom + Paper Mario, but I think you can say it's more of mainstream Mushroom Kingdom + Paper Mario Sticker Star but Bowser and Luigi talk. Oh, and there's Starlow, that little crap.
 
The only thing wrong with Paper Jam was the boring locals, what characters it used were just fine.

I mean what would they do anyway? Just show up and be like "hey remember me? I have nothing important to do but I'm here"
 
Mcmadness said:
I mean what would they do anyway? Just show up and be like "hey remember me? I have nothing important to do but I'm here"
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or in dream team's case "hi my name is derp and who the fuck are you again?"
 
Striker Mario said:
King K. Rool also went missing for over a decade, I'd argue, and he also got in not because he's relevant at the time, but also from fan demand. But King K. Rool is from an IP whose owner has a good track record (unlike Banjo's owner), so he's more likely to be shown in a game again. I think it'll be strange to see him in a Mario spinoff though. The days of seeing Kritters as goalies and Tiny Kong batting against Baby Donkey Kong, I think they're past now.

Banjo's still pretty unique though. If he didn't have early connections with Nintendo, he'd fail to stand out among the other third party characters (aside maybe Joker who's too recent to have the same clout as Hero or Simon?) or at least he'd be difficult to justify over Crash or Rayman.


A review's more or less a thesis. A synthesis of facts and then applying your opinion to them. It's what makes media interesting I think. Opinion isn't a bad thing, and everyone has one. Just that, again, you need to know what words mean and try to apply appropriate lenses and context to things you're arguing.

Anyhow I know you want species to come back while new species are made, but what kind of vessel do we have right now? AlphaDream's long gone, who knows if Mario & Luigi is still around, who knows what the next developer will be. A studio closing doesn't mean the end of a series; Hudson Soft, the developer of Mario Parties up until DS, went under but we got new leadership under ND Cube and we then got Mario Party games afterward. Luigi's Mansion just introduced a bunch of new characters though, and every new Mario platformer we've gotten have technically gave us new characters and new locations. Just that they're usually restricted to the games they're introduced in. Like Cluckboom.

I don't know who came up with the idea of Paper Mario joining Mario & Luigi especially if you're not going to follow-through with it as fans expect. AlphaDream probably found the idea of two Bowsers, two Marios, two Peachs, two Magikoopas, a whopping two kinds of Toads, and so on, more interesting and feasible than a clash of worlds. I can't really say for sure if AlphaDream was just strapped for cash; they still somehow made sprites for all the characters that didn't have sprites before such as Broozer and Biddy.

I'm not sure what you mean by "original" plot. Even if AlphaDream can somehow conjure two worlds clashing better, you already know what to expect. Two sides, first bickering, joining to beat a big side. Or good sides joining to beat the bad sides, with wacky differences causing mayhem at first. What else can you really do?

You call it mainstream Mushroom Kingdom + Paper Mario, but I think you can say it's more of mainstream Mushroom Kingdom + Paper Mario Sticker Star but Bowser and Luigi talk. Oh, and there's Starlow, that little crap.
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The main takeaway from this is I miss Cluckboom
 
Pokerninja2 said:
The main takeaway from this is I miss Cluckboom
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Cluckboom has become a running gag from me at this point. I'm happy someone acknowledged this lmao.

sry about detailed posts i need to give you guys something to do while you're home all day

Mcmadness said:
The only thing wrong with Paper Jam was the boring locals, what characters it used were just fine.

I mean what would they do anyway? Just show up and be like "hey remember me? I have nothing important to do but I'm here"
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Using basic Mario characters IS boring, I think we all agree on it. We both like Toads, but I'd like Piantas, Gearboxes, Nokis, the Mario Odyssey residents, Lumas, etc. on top of it.

People would argue that the entire plot needs to be rewritten so this doesn't seem like forcing characters in (kinda like how Mario was absent from Wreck-it-Ralph). On the other hand, there's a lot of games we need to reference lest we risk leaving out some games.
 
I feel like a lot of the time people want variety in these games as opposed to originality, confusing the two. Not to say there can't be both or that either are bad things to have, but Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam is a good example of this. In previous games, there were all kinds of friendly NPCs you could talk with. Superstar Saga had various Beanish species, Toads, and Yoshis, Bowser's Inside Story had Broque and Broggy, brainwashed minions of Bowser, Toads, and the Emogoblins inside Bowser's body, and Dream Team had more of Broque's species, Toads, Pil'los, and the Zeekeeper if that counts. I haven't played it in awhile so enlighten but I can't think of very many NPCs in Partners in Time outside of Peach, Baby Peach, and the Toadsworths.

Paper Jam meanwhile only has Toads, Paper Toads, and a couple Yoshis. The way you unlock special moves is finding Paper Toads scattered around an area. Not a whole lot of variety, and thus it makes the adventure more boring as a result.
 
And they would work together because? They only get put together because they were the most popular antagonists in each series that wasn't Bowser.

Even ignoring the fact that they are both dead.

Striker Mario said:
Using basic Mario characters IS boring, I think we all agree on it. We both like Toads, but I'd like Piantas, Gearboxes, Nokis, the Mario Odyssey residents, Lumas, etc. on top of it.

People would argue that the entire plot needs to be rewritten so this doesn't seem like forcing characters in (kinda like how Mario was absent from Wreck-it-Ralph). On the other hand, there's a lot of games we need to reference lest we risk leaving out some games.
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Obviously variety is nice but Paper Jam has 2 of every major character in the series. Thats a lot of characters to balance even right there, and this is not a major high budget, high production values series we are talking about here. And what they had, and what they did with what they had, is perfectly acceptable.

I often find myself repeating this but Paper Jam is NOT sticker star, sticker star ripped out the "originals" and replaced it with nothing. Paper Jam has no new characters but the ones there are just as full of life as any previous new ones we had and that matters far more than whether or not a character is "original"

Seriously, I have never gotten this at all, why the constant need to have new people? If plot and character is something you are interested in wouldn't pushing for the ones we have to be elaborated on make more logical sense?

Whenever I want to see someone new, like truly new you know what I do? I don't play a recurring franchise game. Expand your pallets people, yeesh.
 
Mcmadness said:
Seriously, I have never gotten this at all, why the constant need to have new people? If plot and character is something you are interested in wouldn't pushing for the ones we have to be elaborated on make more logical sense?
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I mean Luigi's Mansion 3 had all of that, especially for Luigi, on top of having a bunch of unique enemy and boss designs including a new secondary villain in Hellen Gravely. Super Mario Odyssey gave Mario a lot more life and personality, while also bringing in some new characters like Cappy and the Broodals. I dunno why you're making it out like developing the recurring characters and introducing new ones are mutually exclusive, we can have both, and most of the time we DO have both.
 
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The point I'm making is why make such a huge demand of it? This is a franchise thats over 30 years old, it's not exactly starving for new additions.
 
Yeah I'm sure they'll get right on bringing that place back.
 
Not really, level was kinda lame to be honest.
 
Mcmadness said:
I often find myself repeating this but Paper Jam is NOT sticker star, sticker star ripped out the "originals" and replaced it with nothing. Paper Jam has no new characters but the ones there are just as full of life as any previous new ones we had and that matters far more than whether or not a character is "original"

Seriously, I have never gotten this at all, why the constant need to have new people? If plot and character is something you are interested in wouldn't pushing for the ones we have to be elaborated on make more logical sense?

Whenever I want to see someone new, like truly new you know what I do? I don't play a recurring franchise game. Expand your pallets people, yeesh.
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Paper Jam was indeed a step up above Sticker Star though again, the Paper Mario elements in that game I'd argue is closer to Sticker Star. It's not to stigmatize Paper Jam, just an observation. The Paper Jokes, the character designs, the settings; I just don't see any resemblance to the previous three Paer Marios compared to Sticker Star.

My guess is that when people want to play a new Mario game, they already expect new characters on top. That being said, as Pokerninja2 already stated, many Mario games do introduce new characters. Super Mario Odyssey and Luigi's Mansion 3 are composed of a lot of new characters to go with the exotic locales Mario travels to. If there are new places Mario goes to, I think it's expected for him to meet new characters? Anyhow, there are Mario games with no new characters such as Super Mario Party and Super Mario Maker 2 (though Super Mario Maker introduced Mary O and Yamamura.... would people like Yamamura in Mario Kart?).

But yeah, writing still matters more than putting in new characters that talk. We got Kersti and Starlow, two very original characters. They're not very likeable. And, again, I'd rather have Luigi or Peach or Daisy as a partner over the frankly overrated Mario enemies in costumes. People that clamor for more plot and character development don't really lament how Mario just sits there and stares most of the time.

Besides, characters like Dimentio and Fawful stop becoming original the moment they're reused. What makes Shelltop any more original than Flaptack? I sometimes feel the MaRPG crowd are selectively passionate about what characters and settings they want back rather than acknowledge that we're not going to get Brighton and Twila back either, especially not in a mainstream game (I recall winstein bringing this up how the MaRPGs seem to strike a chord for some?). Fawfulthegreat does at least that iirc with her collages.
 
Striker Mario said:
Besides, characters like Dimentio and Fawful stop becoming original the moment they're reused. What makes Shelltop any more original than Flaptack? I sometimes feel the MaRPG crowd are selectively passionate about what characters and settings they want back rather than acknowledge that we're not going to get Brighton and Twila back either, especially not in a mainstream game (I recall winstein bringing this up how the MaRPGs seem to strike a chord for some?). Fawfulthegreat does at least that iirc with her collages.
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I just feel that I love both Fawful and Dimentio so much and it would be really cool if they were in the same game
 
IDK how 'unpopular' this is or if it's just an uncommon opinion but I think the overworld theme of Super Mario Bros 2 is better than the overworld theme of Super Mario Bros/TLL.
 
Princess Viola said:
IDK how 'unpopular' this is or if it's just an uncommon opinion but I think the overworld theme of Super Mario Bros 2 is better than the overworld theme of Super Mario Bros/TLL.
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Super Mario Bros. 2 USA has a better underground theme than the other Mario games because it's actually different and not used in 16 million Mario games.
 
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If they're gonna add Yamamura do it like R.O.B. in Mario Kart DS where he doesn't touch the steering wheel. Just make him a tiny ass bird who just sits in the kart's seat as it magically propels itself forward.
 
oh it's a little annoyance of mine but it still irks me that steering wheels don't animate in mario kart 8, yet they have all of these other animated parts that do.
 
Redshift said:
oh it's a little annoyance of mine but it still irks me that steering wheels don't animate in mario kart 8, yet they have all of these other animated parts that do.
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I mean most of the time your character is blocking the steering wheel so I can understand why they decided not to animate it.
 
Pokerninja2 said:
I mean most of the time your character is blocking the steering wheel so I can understand why they decided not to animate it.
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Most racing games have an animated steering wheel, and because Mario Kart has MKTV for a cinematic camera that people love to take their shots in, I think it would make just a nice extra polish to have the steering wheel animated. It's not like it's tough to do it anyway, modders add in stuff like that in games that don't have animated steering wheels all the time.

Also, it's 2014, where the fuck are my brake lights whenever I brake?
 
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