Official Paper Mario for Smash 4 Thread

[Nysic]

Not that I really want PM in anyway, Smash 4 has enough Mario characters.

Imo, Mario deserves 7 reps this installment and the go-to characters for those 6th and 7th slots are Daisy and Bowser Jr because they are the only characters left who aren't generic, or pointless alternate versions of other charatcters.

Paper Mario isn't even in the top 10 most deserving Mario/subseries Characters, they are in no specific order:

Daisy
Bowser Jr
Toad
Koopa Kid
Waluigi
Birdo
King K Rool
Dixie Kong
Kiddy Kong
Cranky Kong

The last 4 are DK reps, not Mario. And of those 6 you mentioned, Daisy, Waluigi, and Birdo have only been in spin-offs, and Koopa Kid has only been in a few Mario Party games as a supporting character, and Bowser Jr. is a bit of a stretch. Toad is an okay suggestion but still has less a chance than Paper Mario.

 

[freakworld]

I wonder if 3D player's head will explode if Paper Mario manages to get in.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

Paper Mario would be a clone of Mario, so I don't want him in SSB4.

Actually, not at all.

Paper Mario could use his hammer, partners, pixls, crystal star powers, stickers, etc.

He could have his own moveset, but if Paper Mario was playable, Nintendo would probably just go the easy route and make him a clone.

 

[YoshiGo99]

Do not support. The Mario RPG's don't deserve anything. Be happy that you were lucky enough to get a stage. I'm already somewhat upset enough how the Mario RPGs got representation before Mario Party did. Making Paper Mario playable would be like giving Mario Party fans like me the middle finger.

You really anger me but WHAT is there to represent from the Mario Party series? A board made into a stage? Trophies of things in the games? At least be happy Brawl had stickers for MP and the worst MP host for a trophy (His name does not start with a T)

Maybe even throw in a few themes from the Mario Party series but you probably won't get a character. Koopa Kid hasn't been seen since MP7 (not including cameos) and most of the characters in the game originated from other Mario series.

The Paper Mario series has a better chance as it is quite popular with the first 2 successful games, a great game and a game. Characters with attacking abilities, a boat load of items, tons of locations, and back stories behind characters. Besides the RPG series as a whole has done pretty well. I didn't care for Superstar Saga, Sticker Star, or SMRPG but the rest are quite amazing.

And your Top 10 Deserving Mario characters is your pick not a community as a whole and 4 on the list aren't even Mario characters.

But other than that I support Paper Mario for smash even if they just make him a a palette swap/costume for Mario.

 

[Yoshi K]

Technically Daisy was in Super Mario Land, so that makes her spin-off-exclusive-except-for-that-one-Game Boy-game-nobody-cares-about.

 

[3D Player 2004]

Technically Daisy was in Super Mario Land, so that makes her spin-off-exclusive-except-for-that-one-Game Boy-game-nobody-cares-about.

Paper Mario hasn't been in any main series games at all though.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

Technically Daisy was in Super Mario Land, so that makes her spin-off-exclusive-except-for-that-one-Game Boy-game-nobody-cares-about.

Paper Mario hasn't been in any main series games at all though.

But Super Mario Land is so old that it doesn't really matter now.

 

[SonicMario]

I do believe the Stage reveal not too long ago does raise his chances even if it's tiny. Most of the new stages were related to newcomers in the game.

Examples:
Boxing Ring (Both Versions) - Little Mac
Arena Ferox (3DS) - Robin and Lucina
Prism Tower (3DS) & Kalos Pokemon League (Wii U) - Greninja
Tortimer Island (3DS) and Town & City (Wii U) - Villager
Palutena's Temple (Wii U) - Palutena
Wii Fit Studio (Wii U) - Wii Fit Trainer
Tomodachi Life Stage, Streetpass Quest Stage, Pilotwings (With Wuhu Island) as well as arguably any of the Smash Bros. stages since they're the Multi-Man Team of Smash 4 - Mii Fighters
Mario Galaxy - Rosalina
Wily's Castle (Both Versions) - Mega Man
Pac-Maze & Pac-Land - Pac-Man

The only exceptions being the Nintendog Stage (Because no way would Nintendo let a somewhat realistic puppy be a playable character. That's just asking for Animal Rights activists to yell at you) and the Balloon Fight stage (Villager kinda takes what would be the Balloon Fighter's gimmick with his recovery. He even temporarily gains the helmet). But that's two out of a total of 2 out of 42 stages, of which the other 40 are related to some character or franchise whether they're newcomers or veterans.

 

[3D Player 2004]

Technically Daisy was in Super Mario Land, so that makes her spin-off-exclusive-except-for-that-one-Game Boy-game-nobody-cares-about.

Paper Mario hasn't been in any main series games at all though.

But Super Mario Land is so old that it doesn't really matter now.

Paper Mario: 4 Spin-offs
Daisy: 1 Main-series, 33 Spin-offs

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

Technically Daisy was in Super Mario Land, so that makes her spin-off-exclusive-except-for-that-one-Game Boy-game-nobody-cares-about.

Paper Mario hasn't been in any main series games at all though.

But Super Mario Land is so old that it doesn't really matter now.

Paper Mario: 4 Spin-offs
Daisy: 1 Main-series, 33 Spin-offs

So what if she appears in a lot of spin-offs? Waluigi appears in a lot of spin-offs, but he's not playable.

 

[YuruNex]

Technically Daisy was in Super Mario Land, so that makes her spin-off-exclusive-except-for-that-one-Game Boy-game-nobody-cares-about.

Paper Mario hasn't been in any main series games at all though.

But Super Mario Land is so old that it doesn't really matter now.

Paper Mario: 4 Spin-offs
Daisy: 1 Main-series, 33 Spin-offs

Paper Mario has his own series. Daisy? No, she doesn't. Bowser Jr? No, he doesn't. Waluigi? No, he doesn't.

 

[Magikrazy]

Current Supporters: (from GameFAQs)
greatdimentio (Fawfulthegreat64)
SilverBassCross
Burnmad
slumpcat
PaleTunaPls
NeutronStar256
DrSnipester343
PhotonCrusader
wiiking96
just14
DK9292
Powers46
Assassin2713
MarioFan20
OlafPietro
AuraWielder
Nysic
Glitchy
Yoshi K
Icemario
Freakworld
Magikrazy

 

[SonicMario]

@3D Player 2004: I've said it many times already. But yes if Waluigi is still an assist trophy, then Daisy shouldn't be playable. There is literally nothing that makes Daisy more worthy of a playable spot then Waluigi. And even Waluigi wouldn't be the best decision either if we don't have some incarnation of Toad in there. I already question Rosalina's inclusion on this, imagine a scenario where both Waluigi and Daisy make it in. And Toad's still relegated to near nothingness for the exception of being Peach's meatshield. It'd be an insult to one of the most recurring characters in the Mario franchise. You argued about how Daisy's one main-series inclusion in Super Mario Land makes her more important then either Waluigi or Paper Mario. Even if that held water, then how about Toad. Who's been appearing in almost every Mario game since the original Super Mario Bros. and has even been playable in both classic and recent games?!

I think completing the SMB2 cast would take more priority then completing those imaginary roster shapes you make up would.

 

[3D Player 2004]

Northern Verve or anyone for that matter, give me a Toad moveset that makes sense to prove that he could be a fighter, or I won't take that post seriously. And Daisy is more important than Waluigi for many reasons.

 

[Magikrazy]

How could ROB even fight? He's an accessory!

What kind of moveset would Wii Fit Trainer even have?

 

[SonicMario]

Northern Verve or anyone for that matter, give me a Toad moveset that makes sense to prove that he could be a fighter, or I won't take that post seriously. And Daisy is more important than Waluigi for many reasons.

Here's one I found for Captain Toad (Which at this point might be the only way any Toad gets in Smash)

Spoiler: Captain Toad Special Moves

Moveset ideas:

Neutral B: Toad Spore
Captain Toad is not the most offensive individual, being a strong an honourable man he prefers to let his enemies throw the first punch. And then return their damage back at them two fold. Yes; the brave Captain Toad soon teaches those villains that such aggression can and will be turned back upon them.

Up + B: Power Star Grappling Hook
Captain Toad is nothing if not resourceful. Using one of the many Green Power Stars he's managed to find over his journeys, and his trusty rope this modern day Macguver can create a handy grappling hook to let him recover from big falls, or swing up to higher platforms. Being slapped in the face with a Power Star also hurts somewhat as anyone who has ever made the unfortunate mistake to cross the Captain will tell you. If their jaws were realigned that is.

Side + B: Headlamp
Utilizing his trusty headlamp, the courageous Captain Toad dares to bring light to any villain's lair. Hitting them in the eyes with his powerful light he can stop even the most determined antagonist in their tracks for a split second, giving them time to think twice about testing his mettle.

Down + B: Rucksack empty
Sometimes you need to pack for adventure. Other times, you need to lighten the load. Captain Toad is a mushroom man of experience and he knows that if you're being weighed down the best thing to do is ditch the dead weight. He turns his rucksack upside down and drops several items from it.
After doing this several times, Captain Toad's jump and double jump becoming significantly improved at the questionable cost of him being lighter and easier to KO. Is the recovery worth losing such weight? More importantly is it worth more than losing such beautiful treasures?

And other then being a damsel-in-distress in one game. All I see between Daisy and Waluigi is they have been just selectable characters in almost every Mario Spin-Off ever since Mario Tennis on the N64.

Stop pretending the Mario Party/Sports/Kart/Etc. mean something all that special to Smash Bros. It's quite obvious by now that they aren't important besides Mario Kart getting a stage in both Brawl and Smash 4 and getting referred to in Trophies. (Like Striker Mario and Daisy in Brawl). The Smash series care more about main games, Rosalina's inclusion is practically proof of this as she represents Super Mario Galaxy. Which was a Main Mario game.

 

[Yoshi K]

I found another potential Captain Toad moveset.

Spoiler

Standard Special Move - Headlamp
A bright flash of light briefly stuns the opponent at close range.

Side Special Move - Pickaxe
Captain Toad moves forward while swinging his pickaxe like the hammer item, but it's much weaker, obviously.

Up Special Move - Cannon
Captain Toad launches at an upward arc out of a cannon.

Down Special Move - Vegetable
He pulls a vegetable out of the ground like Peach, but he holds it overhead.

Final Smash - Toad Brigade
A couple of Toads appear and help attack the opponents.

Regular attacks - basic punches and kicks, headbutts, clumsy tripping, judo throws, smash attack spores

 

[Ray Trace]

I'm 100% against Paper Mario's inclusion, for several reasons. DISCLAIMER: It's my opinion, if you personally want him in, FINE. I'm just throwing my 2 cents on this subject.

1. He's an alternate form of Mario. And he's not just a power-up like Metal Mario or from a different incarnation like Toon Link, or hell, from a different time-line like Young Link. He's literally Mario, but in a different art-style. That's a STUPID way to bloat a character roster. Just because Mario is 2D and flat and papery does NOT give him merit that he should be his own separate character. I don't care if you give him a unique moveset, he's not the best way to represent a diverse Mario cast, who ALSO have potential for a unique moveset.

2. He comes from a niche series. I'm not talking about something like the Ice Climbers or Fire Emblem, I'm talking about the freaking MARIO series, y'know, Nintendo's biggest series. Paper Mario's series is actually less popular compared to Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, and Mario Party. As a whole, Paper Mario is a relatively unpopular series.

3. Paper Mario has yet to receive representation in Super Smash Bros. outside of Stickers and Trophies. You'd think by Super Smash Bros. Brawl, the series could have received at LEAST an Assist Trophy, stage, or hell, music. Paper Mario has received NONE of those. Freaking Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time was about to receive TWO music (though one ended up being an unused element).

4. If we're going to include Paper Mario because he has potential for a unique moveset, this begs the question: Why not use Mario in other outfits? Doctor Mario was an arguably bad choice in Melee, and not because he's a clone of Mario. He's literally Mario in a doctor outfit. He's arguably the worst choice for newcomers out there. But why not include someone like Mario & Luigi Mario, Mario Strikers Mario, FLUDD Mario, Mario Kart Mario, etc. they all have potential for incredibly unique movesets yet I don't see anyone clamoring for their inclusion. See why Paper Mario is a bad idea?

5. There are far more Mario characters deserving of a slot than Paper Mario. Now this is subjective, but hear me out. I'd prefer Toad, a far more iconic character, a far more varied character, and has been playing a lot of major roles recently than Paper Mario. This isn't a topic where we debate Toad's veracity for a playable slot though. I'd also prefer if Waluigi made it over Paper Mario, because at least he got an Assist Trophy and has the potential to represent the spin-off Mario series. Hell I'd even support a playable Daisy over Paper Mario. And me personally would prefer Baby Mario and Baby Luigi: they're in the same case as Paper Mario, really (same-ish characters with a great potential unique moveset) but they were at least classified as separate characters in the games they appeared in (Partners in Time especially helped).

 

[Magikrazy]

1. It hasn't been discussed whether or not it's the same Mario. How do you know this isn't an alternate incarnation of Mario, not unlike Toon Link?

2. Ok. That's a good point, actually.

3. Um, did you miss the stage that was literally just revealed?

4. Because there's no difference between Mario and the ones you said. The Paper Mario series is its own story with its own characters and it takes place in some 2D universe where everything is made of paper. However, I'm open to the other Mario sub-series being represented. That's why i had Waluigi in my roster before he was deconfirmed.

5. I'd like [Captain] Toad too, but if the RPGs were to be represented, Paper Mario is the best bet.

I'd probably have better arguments if I wasn't in a hurry, but I'm sure someone else does.

 

[Ray Trace]

1. It hasn't been discussed whether or not it's the same Mario. How do you know this isn't an alternate incarnation of Mario, not unlike Toon Link?

2. Ok. That's a good point, actually.

3. Um, did you miss the stage that was literally just revealed?

4. Because there's no difference between Mario and the ones you said. The Paper Mario series is its own story with its own characters and it takes place in some 2D universe where everything is made of paper. However, I'm open to the other Mario sub-series being represented. That's why i had Waluigi in my roster before he was deconfirmed.

5. I'd like [Captain] Toad too, but if the RPGs were to be represented, Paper Mario is the best bet.

I'd probably have better arguments if I wasn't in a hurry, but I'm sure someone else does.

1. Absence of evidence IS evidence of absence. Though we do know that Toon Link and others are clearly mean to be different incarnations because of several game explanations, there is NO evidence of Paper Mario being an entirely separate entity of Mario. One can argue that Dr. Mario is a completely separate character or that Strikers Mario is a separate character based on your argument alone.

3. I'm sorry if I'm ignorant on Smash 4 stuff, since I'm not all that hyped for the game. If that's the case, I'll redact my statement about Paper Mario not receiving anything beyond a trophy.

4. As well as Mario & Luigi, which also has its own characters and takes place in what can be called a "2D" universe. And the other Mario spin-offs, which could be established for their lack of story. It's an art-style, it's NOT a completely separate setting. Stop confusing the two.

5. If we absolutely MUST have an RPG rep, I'd rather have something from Mario & Luigi. If it HAS to be Paper Mario, I'd rather have a partner, or a slot taken by many partners (though excuse me that I'm unable to work that out yet).

 

[Magikrazy]

Ok. Your arguments are valid.

I think the main reason I want Paper Mario is because I want more characters in general.

I actually liked Dr. Mario's inclusion in Melee. I was like "Two Marios? That's interesting. Cool".

In all honesty, my dream ssb roster is every Nintendo character ever.

also if we were talking about paper baby luigi you would be all over it

 

[Ray Trace]

Ok. Your arguments are valid.

I think the main reason I want Paper Mario is because I want more characters in general.

I actually liked Dr. Mario's inclusion in Melee. I was like "Two Marios? That's interesting. Cool".

In all honesty, my dream ssb roster is every Nintendo character ever.

also if we were talking about paper baby luigi you would be all over it

As I said, that's totally fine if you want Paper Mario, because the fan's reasons for wanting him playable is a TOTALLY understandable reason; it's simply my 2 cents why I'm against him. More characters are always better. It's just that I think there are far better choices than Paper Mario out there.

welllll yeeaaaahhh but you see.....

 

[GalacticPetey]

I actually liked Dr. Mario's inclusion in Melee. I was like "Two Marios? That's interesting. Cool".

Personally, I'd be fine if we got another Mario.

And Dr. Mario may not be too far-fetched. He was intended for Brawl alongside Mewtwo and Roy but was cut due to time. In addition, he will not be an alternate costume. Sakurai says if a costume has even the slightest difference, they would become a separate character. Lucina is an example of this. She was intended to be a costume but sakurai tweaked her ever so slightly that she became her own character.

Because Doc would use pills and the tornado, as well as have a different fsmash, that's different enough for Sakurai to consider him his own thing. Sakurai even stated that Dr. Mario shooting fire would look odd.

Basically, don't be surprised if Doc ends up his own character again. It's either separate character or not playable at all. No alternate costume.

 

[Ray Trace]

Eh, I'm personally against Sakurai's mantra of even the slightest different constitutes as own character.

But then again I'm a Young Link user and a Toon Link user so I guess I'm a bit of a hypocrite :P

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

I actually liked Dr. Mario's inclusion in Melee. I was like "Two Marios? That's interesting. Cool".

Personally, I'd be fine if we got another Mario.

And Dr. Mario may not be too far-fetched. He was intended for Brawl alongside Mewtwo and Roy but was cut due to time. In addition, he will not be an alternate costume. Sakurai says if a costume has even the slightest difference, they would become a separate character. Lucina is an example of this. She was intended to be a costume but sakurai tweaked her ever so slightly that she became her own character.

Because Doc would use pills and the tornado, as well as have a different fsmash, that's different enough for Sakurai to consider him his own thing. Sakurai even stated that Dr. Mario shooting fire would look odd.

Basically, don't be surprised if Doc ends up his own character again. It's either separate character or not playable at all. No alternate costume.

The way I heard it, Dr. Mario we removed for being to similar to Mario.