Paper Mario TTYD vs Paper Mario vs Super Paper Mario

spm >

still haven't played 64 or ttyd. really should fix that.
 
arguably there was the thing with 4 chosen heroes in ttyd too, but it was just a very minor thing (the backstory of those chest guys).
 
Dr. Mario said:
Hm, okay, I'll have to trust you for that part because I'm not a seasoned RPG player at all.

Super Paper Mario DOES go into "chosen one" territory, though, and I don't forgive it for that.
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I do hate a lot of chosen one stories, few exceptions here and there.
 
i know its not a game, but avatar (the tv series) did that right. basically those monks in the southern air temple in the past were like "you're the chosen one", but upon seeing aang's struggle they were like "okay maybe it wasn't a good idea to tell him he's still too young." (or maybe that was just Gyatso i don't remember that episode well enough), and for the rest of the show they weren't being overly pushy about it. also it wasn't just some vague prophecy like usual, but something that's been proven and done for the past 1000+ years.

(kudos to doug walker for pointing this out btw)
 
Mcmadness said:
Dr. Mario said:
Hm, okay, I'll have to trust you for that part because I'm not a seasoned RPG player at all.

Super Paper Mario DOES go into "chosen one" territory, though, and I don't forgive it for that.
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I do hate a lot of chosen one stories, few exceptions here and there.
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ugh yeah they're pretty much every where.

Some have that but have a good adventure, but most just fall flat.

Spm is one of the ones that fall flat, and spm in general is just boring imo.

Especially compared to pm64.
 
SPM's major flaw was that it didn't feel at all like Mario.

Mario was just kinda there.

In the other games, the hub worlds have that Mario feel.

PM64 took place in Toad Town.
TTYD's Rogueport was new, but it was populated with familiar looking characters.

I forget Sticker Star, but I assume the hubworld was a bunch of Toads and Yoshis so yeah not very creative but it was Mario at least

Super Paper Mario takes place in some weird flip flop land with weird characters and it all felt wrong

I'd probably like the game a lot more if it wasn't a Mario game. Maybe make Tippi the player character or something.
 
tbh i think thats a positive aspect of the game.

its like the only mario game with mario in the title (apart from mario is missing and gbc mario golf/gba mario tennis' story mode) where mario doesnt feel like hes the main character, and its a welcome change imo.
 
That's not a good point, IMO, especially when it's advertised as a Mario game. People would naturally root for Mario and others as the main characters, not some geometric nobodies. No other Mario character drive the plot either, so that's not good.

Either way, Mario should be the main character in every game he's playable in. :fancy: don't mind me
 
Emmett Brown said:
tbh i think thats a positive aspect of the game.

its like the only mario game with mario in the title (apart from mario is missing and gbc mario golf/gba mario tennis' story mode) where mario doesnt feel like hes the main character, and its a welcome change imo.
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its not even that, its more along the lines that the game has little to do with the mario universe itself, almost all the mario characters feel out of place and dont really belong to anything whatsoever.

Usually you can get mario feelings from other new mario stuff, but not in spm, and it adds a rather lackluster effect, almost like it was some fangame or something.

Theres also the fact that the games gameplay is really dull, even for a rpg platformer, as it has very little variety in its combat, and even if it was compared to just a mario platformer it still fails with its serious lack of variety with power ups or level design.

Considering the design of the areas are really boring, especially when you use 3d flip. The game just feels rather empty and almost all of the new characters are rather ugly and the mario characters look completely out of style with the rest of the characters and it just looks like style clashing, making the game seem even more like a fan game.
 
The story, the story feels like a fan reject of a Mario story. If people told me that the ridiculous Super Paper Mario story was the reason Sticker Star was gutted, I'd believe them.
 
SPM > PM

Story is only what separates these two games.
 
It's really hard to write articles about Super Paper Mario in the wiki without thinking that the page needs a rewrite template.
 
i dont think the way spm turned out shouldve been or couldve been a reason for the "return to the normal mario formula with force" order by miyamoto
 
Emmett Brown said:
i dont think the way spm turned out shouldve been or couldve been a reason for the "return to the normal mario formula with force" order by miyamoto
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Maybe it was, because there's a crapton of effort that was needlessly wasted on a story that turned out mediocre at best and sacrificed any gameplay, and Miyamoto wanted the team to focus on gameplay first.
 
That 1% bullshit is what really pisses me off about that. Clear fix and the fact there's a fix regarding reasons for Sticker Star changes makes the game look worse.

"Gameplay first" is also bullshit because the first three games still had like lot's of gameplay and got the balance perfect (and was well done as well). Also the gameplay in Sticker Star isn't that good.
 
Emmett Brown said:
i dont think the way spm turned out shouldve been or couldve been a reason for the "return to the normal mario formula with force" order by miyamoto
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I'm saying hypothetically.
 
Lucina said:
That 1% bull*bleep* is what really pisses me off about that. Clear fix and the fact there's a fix regarding reasons for Sticker Star changes makes the game look worse.

"Gameplay first" is also bull*bleep* because the first three games still had like lot's of gameplay and got the balance perfect (and was well done as well). Also the gameplay in Sticker Star isn't that good.
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What 1% bullcrap? You mean the percentage of people who actually cared about the story? Because honestly, if Sticker Star had the gameplay and partners like the first two Paper Marios sans story, I really wouldn't give two shits about a total lack of story.
 
@lucina

what are you talking about

spm literally has the dullest gameplay of the first three games, and boy is it boring.

theres so many ways it could have been interesting with new attacks, battle customization, ya know something other action and platformer rpgs do, but no we couldnt have that, the potential was even more missed with more playable characters too, and the pixels could have further been more useful then what they were.

i dont see how anyone can like spms gameplay, i know its a big imo moment, but that game is just too boring period.


Although if sticker stars battle system would have had more purpose and more battle customization it would have been fine gameplay wise.
 
Emmett Brown said:
i dont think the way spm turned out shouldve been or couldve been a reason for the "return to the normal mario formula with force" order by miyamoto
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I think that Super Paper Mario opened the gates to Sticker Star, but I'm mostly talking about gameplay. Without SPM, I'm pretty sure it would've looked like how it was supposed to in early screenshots. Both games tried to be different, and that's my problem with both.

I just want Paper Mario to return to it's roots, but it might never happen. :\
 
I liked SPM's gameplay, okay it wasn't perfect and it had bad moments. The action element feels fluid and enjoyable, most of the pixels were welcome attiditions and the idea of flipping into 3D worked well despite a few clunky moments. The levels itself were pretty well thought and designed and offered a good variety. The only real dull moments were 2-3 and 6-1.

Customiseation isn't needed for a good action RPG, actually one would argue no customisation keeps the game simple and could be less tedious as a result.
 
Lucina said:
I liked SPM's gameplay, okay it wasn't perfect and it had bad moments. The action element feels fluid and enjoyable, most of the pixels were welcome attiditions and the idea of flipping into 3D worked well despite a few clunky moments. The levels itself were pretty well thought and designed and offered a good variety. The only real dull moments were 2-3 and 6-1.

Customiseation isn't needed for a good action RPG, actually one would argue no customisation keeps the game simple and could be less tedious as a result.
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customization also holds more replayability as well, why do you think people love hack n slash games like diablo 2 or rpg platformers like castlevania symphony of the night?

you also witness the same story and can also get access to the same areas... however there is one thing that truely defines replayability

battle customization. Whether you choose different weapons and combinations with equipment to have a different experince or choose a different skill tree to have the same class/character feel different.

Battle customization has always been a pretty big deal overall, and even the largest amounts of battle custommization has been simple, paper mario for example with its badge system has good customization later on, despite how simple the game is.

So your point is rather invalid.
 
Lucina said:
Customiseation isn't needed for a good action RPG, actually one would argue no customisation keeps the game simple and could be less tedious as a result.
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Castlevania says otherwise.
 
I love all three games, and I personally consider them all to be masterpieces in their own right. I consider all of them, including Super Paper Mario, to be the glory days of the RPG series before Sticker Star came along and ruined everything.
 
Geez, one sour note and the entire orchestra's ruined for you, huh?

I know Sticker Star wasn't very good, and it's for sure my least favorite, but damn. You just completely disown a franchise you loved for three generations after one dud. I'd at least wait until the next Paper Mario (i.e., not Paper Jam). :P

And don't take this the wrong way. I respect your thoughts on the series, and I'll admit Paper Mario has been on a bit of a downward spike in terms of quality.
 
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