Top 5 - 10 - 20 Mario Disappointments.

Luigi 64DD said:
LeftyGreenMario said:
Though I hate Galaxy 2 and I also kind of dislike Sunshine. Sunshine is the worst 3D Mario platformer, though.
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I don't see why Galaxy 2 is worse than Galaxy 1, aside from not having as good a story. Besides, the Green Star thing is less repetitive than Galaxy's playing the entire game again except as Luigi. Also, you can play as Luigi more than Mario if you want, which is nice for me, Luigi 64DD, but probably not so great for you, LeftyGreenMario.
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People keep forgetting we're twins, so we alternate the Luigi mode of Super Mario Galaxy and thus benefits both of us.
 
Luigi 64DD said:
I don't see why Galaxy 2 is worse than Galaxy 1, aside from not having as good a story. Besides, the Green Star thing is less repetitive than Galaxy's playing the entire game again except as Luigi. Also, you can play as Luigi more than Mario if you want, which is nice for me, Luigi 64DD, but probably not so great for you, LeftyGreenMario.
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It doesn't really do anything on its own. Galaxy had the benefit of novelty, Galaxy 2 had the opportunity to improve on Galaxy. It didn't. It gave us some good levels, some half-assed ones, removed good powerups (Ice Flower and Red Star), introduced one decent powerup with the rest being crap, and blatantly recycled many levels and concepts. It also gave us seriously half-assed Green Stars, which is arguably as stupid as playing as Luigi again (Luigi isn't even at the right proportions; neither is Mario though).

P.S. I also really like Luigi. :<

Michael Palin said:
Sunshine is a weird situation because the game itself is ok, but the technical details like camera and controls failed pretty badly.
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When level design is broken, it's REALLY broken.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
When level design is broken, it's REALLY broken.
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To better focus this interesting discussion about this game that even I considered with perplexity at the beginning, but that in the end I think was a big step forward for the franchise in terms of characters and locations, with Isle Delfino even being featured in both Mario Kart 8, SSB4 and the Minecraft Mash-Up pack, would you reconsider it if all the abstract parts - Secrets, Pachinko, Sand Bird, Lily Pad and the like - were removed from it, or you think that even the more realistic, exploration-based stages had glaring flaws?
 
Nothing is wrong with the theme. Game isn't bad, even. When the game feels broken, however, it feels broken throughout several ways. Panchinko Manchine isn't broken because it's abstract, it's broken because the way it's designed. Invisible walls, Mario taking fall damage in the weirdest places, Mario slamming his face into a wall; the trampoline launching Mario, but Mario can't launch all the way because it forces him into a wall jump animation that halts all momentum.

Not saying that it didn't expand on the Mario universe, but gameplay-wise, it leaves a lot to be desired, and I understand that it's considered overall a failure and is the reason we changed to a Galaxy-like format with linear planet hopping. For those who want games like the first two 3D Mario, it's mainly Super Mario Sunshine's fault for being the mess it was.
 
Galaxy 1 is a horrible marriage of the worst bits of the old Mario games, the Sonic Adventures, and Star Wars. Not to mention the godawful motion controls.

Galaxy 2 is just Galaxy 1 infected by NSMBS.

3DWorld is a bastard child of Mario Party and NSMB while also being a bastardization of SMB2USA.
 
Those are all pretty vague statements. I don't understand how it's a marriage of the worst bits of all those games at all. Motion controls can be annoying, especially when you're manta surfing or rolling on the ball, but overall, I think it's inoffensive.

I don't see how 3D World has anything to do with Mario Party. So again, elaborate.

And I don't see how New Super Mario Bros. is dragged into those games. Aside from maybe 3D World, which has 2D Mario gameplay, but on a 3D plane, which has little to do exclusively to New Super Mario Bros..
 
I had no trouble with the notion controls at all, unless you count Sling Pods as motion control. Fuck Sling Pods.
 
5. Art style/music for Yoshi's New Island
4. Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash
3. Super Mario Land
2. Daisy
1. Baby Daisy
 
I mean, I wouldn't count Baby Daisy as a disappointment if there are no expectations of her in the first place.
 
Nah, she can be a disappointment for existing and basically being a green light for Nintendo to think pulling Baby Lazylina out of their corporate asses is a mite acceptable.
 
I found yet another big disappointment.

Taking too long to implement Peach as a playable character in a 2.5D Mario game. This was supposed to be done for NSMBWii but they scrapped it. They took until 2016 when graphics hardware became powerful with modern R&D to finally implement her in a 2.5D Mario platformer. Man if NSMB Switch comes out, Peach better not be kidnapped. They should make her a playable character and have the Sprixie Princesses reprise their role or something.
 
Baby Luigi said:
i'm speaking from "the developers are idiots" perspective

why do the developers force you to play through random crap to unlock content
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amiibo.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
I wonder if the entire year of 2016 is going to go on this list.
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I hope I'm wrong because Mario Party Star Rush wasn't a disappointment, though the content is pretty light.
 
2016 was when mario sports superstars was announced

not a disappointment at all
 
There were some good and some bad things.
 
Here is yet another huge disappointment, the DRM crap in Super Mario Run.
Seriously, Nintendo why implement all these crappy schemes? You are literally making a deterrent that makes people not want to try any of your stuff or pay the premium prices.
 
I know of a game that disappointed me more than both Sticker Star and Color Splash. Even though SS is still a worse game.

That would be Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. What's more disappointing than a lackluster entry in one great series? Why, a lackluster game that is supposed to bridge two great series. Seriously. If someone had asked me prior to Paper Jam's announcement what my dream Mario game is, there's a good chance I'd have said "Mario RPG that uses characters from both Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario universe." Then they announce a crossover between them that doesn't use any of said characters. Except Starlow but she is literally one of the worst RPG-exclusive characters next to Kersti.

I read the Miiverse interview and I know why they did it. Because too many characters would've taken the focus away from the "double of each main character" thing. Still, they could've used any sort of alternative plot if they wanted characters meeting themselves from another universe to be the focus. Using Paper Mario did nothing but disappoint the people who would've wanted to finally see something like this.

I drew a rough sketch once of Paper Mario looking at the cast of Dream Team and saying "I wonder if some of that uniqueness can rub off on me?" followed by Paper Mario, Mario and Luigi surrounded by generic Toads with Paper Mario going "I should've fucking known..." Maybe I'll make it into something presentable at some point.

Of course, I won't attack you if you like this game. But it was disappointing for me.
 
Another HUGE disappointment. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe track and amiibo content.

There were many amiibo that released in late 2015 and 2016, but they only had time to implement Inkling, and not the characters that would make sense for a game like this, like :daisy: :bowjr: :waluigi:. Heck, we should have gotten something from Zelda or Wolf Link too, but Nintendo clearly doesn't care about the value proposition of amiibo anymore.
 
Fresh Bowser said:
Of course, I won't attack you if you like this game. But it was disappointing for me.
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Ha, well, that's the point of opinions!

Anyhow, I myself am sort of relieved this wasn't a crossover fanfic mess. I do believe Paper Jam's developers were forced to limit their scope a bit in Paper Jam for reasons (which I don't specifically remember) I found legit. I think they wanted to do a crossover on the scale like you said, but it was too daunting and overwhelming with characters to pull it off well, so they just limited it to existing Mario characters that are recurring in the mainstream Mario games.
 
It was a basic crossover 101. The main villain of one series teams up with the main villain of the other resulting in a team up of the heroes to defeat the team up of the villains.

I think the only common crossover trope it didn't have was the heroes briefly fighting each other due to misunderstanding from the villains but that would never happen as the heroes are essentially the same person.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
Fresh Bowser said:
Of course, I won't attack you if you like this game. But it was disappointing for me.
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Ha, well, that's the point of opinions!

Anyhow, I myself am sort of relieved this wasn't a crossover fanfic mess. I do believe Paper Jam's developers were forced to limit their scope a bit in Paper Jam for reasons (which I don't specifically remember) I found legit. I think they wanted to do a crossover on the scale like you said, but it was too daunting and overwhelming with characters to pull it off well, so they just limited it to existing Mario characters that are recurring in the mainstream Mario games.
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I think you are referring to this interview:

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHk4lo1ABg

[quote author=Shunsuke Kobayashi]We were thinking, since the paper characters were coming all the way from the paper world, let's make the main story something really bizarre, crammed with red herrings and misapprehensions. We had things like going back and forth to the paper world, and the Mushroom Kingdom turning gradually into paper... But we overdid it a bit, and the first draft of the plot ended up being a complete muddle that wouldn't resonate with anyone... So we simplified the script and structured it with greater emphasis on showing the different characters meeting and interacting with each other. We had to do a lot of re-writes...[/quote]

[quote author=Akira Otani]Actually, the in-house coordination was quite a big job. We really had to make an effort to give all three characters had their own characteristics and chances to stand out, because when Paper Mario came to the fore too much, Mario and Luigi's parts seemed a bit thin by comparison. "Crossovers are tough, and I'd be the first one to say it!", I thought. But rewriting the script, adjusting the overworld actions, balancing the battles, and making sure that each character had their own special scenes resulted in lots more evolutions of the finished product than usual, so ultimately I think it turned out the better for it.[/quote]

[quote author=Akira Otani]This time, since we had so many paper characters and doubles of the same character together, we had to prioritise moving the story forward and communicating the contrast between them. It would have been really difficult to put in original characters and work out when would be the best time for them to appear.[/quote]
 
I understand why they did it from the perspective of the type of game they were making. But I'm still disappointed that it was more of a "meeting yourself" game than a "two similar but also different universes colliding" game. There weren't any paper characters who didn't have real counterparts for example, and even some paper characters who DID have real counterparts still didn't appear (like Toadette). There was also the complete absence of Toadsworth on both sides despite him being in every Mario & Luigi up to that point and having a paper counterpart in TTYD.
 
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