Mario rpg fans unite, what do you look or want from rpgs outside of mario rpgs?

I don't think the Thousand-Year Door fans will enjoy a Thousand-Year Door clone in nonMario RPGs simply because it isn't Mario. A lot of things people liked about this game not only concerns gameplay, but with its connection with the Mario series and how it adds to it with new characters and a story to go along with it.
 
Yapyap said:
You won't know that until you try it.
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well not really, certain spin-offs can copy another but dont have the same effect either due to proper universe and setting, so....
 
I am not talking about direct copies and rip-offs. I am talking about taking inspiration from something and then putting your own spin on it, building upon the potential of the original.

Banjo-Kazooie did that sort of thing with the Super Mario 64 formula. Mario was nowhere in that game, and it was still a great success. Okami did something similar with the Zelda formula, intertwining it with japanese folklore, and that game too is beloved by many. Hell, you could even make a case for South Park: The Stick of Truth, and how it takes a lot of design elements from the Paper Mario series, and that game has been very well received as well. Nothing is doomed outright.

You cannot just condemn an idea because a few people failed with it. If you give the chance to a talented, passionate, and savvy developer who understands what they are doing and who has an actual vision, you can end up with some pretty amazing stuff.
 
thats really on perspective though, and ttyd and most mario rpgs are far different then the likes of rpgs themselves, most rpgs dont really come close to in terms of its own uniqueness, sure they can do something similar via lod's combo system or ff5s funny dialogue, but the likelhood of another rpg outside of the mario rpgs replicating a similar feeling just isnt gonna happen in almost every case.

Whether people dont want to admit it or not, most rpg developers dont really want to be like that of the mario rpgs, and its shown in almost every rpg to date.
 
That doesn't really relate to my argument of "You can build something amazing and fun by taking inspiration from an established thing and putting your own spin on it", so... ?

Like, if you're saying that there can never be a game that builds upon the potential of TTYD and potentially surpass it, then that is an incredibly narrow mindset.
 
Yapyap said:
That doesn't really relate to my argument of "You can build something amazing and fun by taking inspiration from an established thing and putting your own spin on it", so... ?

Like, if you're saying that there can never be a game that builds upon the potential of TTYD and potentially surpass it, then that is an incredibly narrow mindset.
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thats not really my point, to many rpg gamers, ttyd has been long surpassed before it even came out.

TTyd maybe fun to rpg newbies or just people that venture into the mario rpgs, but comparing them to various other rpgs out there, they're nothing more then basic gameplay and funny stories.

To an experienced rpg player, they're limited, and the story telling doesnt exactly go to far, as most of the time its just to have a laugh or two at the dialogue.

I mean if you like it fine, but mario rpgs have already been surprassed for years, because mario rpgs really exist to cause some laughs or cater to rpg newbies.

There is little variety to mario rpgs in general, most people really only exist to return for the funny dialogue or the parodies that exist in them. Gameplay wise they're limited in many ways and there is really no reason to experiment in mario rpgs either because you're most often not getting any new challenge by experimenting, mario rpgs are so easy in so many ways that experimenting with badges and moves and stuff like that doesnt even matter, because you dont really feel any different and with that in mind; the only real reason is to return to the story.

And even that has limitations, you dont change anything in the story, there are like no alternate endings from the games i played, you dont really change the world around you with every playthrough, the story doesnt change and the characters dont change either, yeah you could do side quests but you can do that every time. Theres also little to nothing that moves you to complete the story either, they're not emotional, they're not impactful, they're just little fun stories that you laugh at.

I dont mean to sound insulting or anything but, mario rpgs and mario rpg fans are in very little minority and mario rpgs themselves are very basic and limited in every way, with that, there is no reason to replicate or be inspired by mario rpgs, because there are so many rpgs out there that go so far beyond the likes of mario rpgs themselves.

Basically if you like mario rpgs thats fine, but as far as big rpg gamers go, mario rpgs have long been surpassed for a very long time, and with such they dont really inspire much since theres little reason to be inspired to begin with, they're fun for mario fans, maybe for a few times, but mario rpgs are so basic in every way, once again, have no need to inspire anything, because they really exist to just be a start.

I mean sorry if you like mario rpgs but, they really dont do much new or at least not impressive enough to inspire, and thats what im trying to say.
 
My point is not about direct ripoffs. I'm saying that the MaRPG fans are pret-ty devoted Mario fans and if they get something they want, but it's not Mario, it's going to impact their enjoyment. It's a shame, but people are most comfortable in the worlds they grew up in, and Mario's a huge world to live in compared to the other game worlds.

Mario RPGs are a great starter RPG and their minimalistic and simplistic story and environment might be appealing and a good break from the typical story and gameplay cruft other RPGs have, but I don't consider it very sophisticated. I don't play a lot of RPGs, though, so I'll have to take Zae's word for it.
 
Time Turner said:
Zae Eildus said:
because mario rpgs really exist to cause some laughs or cater to rpg newbies.
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And you say that like it's a bad thing.
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to gamers that want more out of rpgs, yes.

infact its a very bad thing.
 
Did I write those posts explaining how TTYD hits a niche than is not currently catered to by anything else for nothing? Like, ok, I get it, you have a very set definition of what a good RPG is to you, and deviations from that definition strike you as uninteresting, or trivial. But just because you don't find anything in those games that you would like to see in other games doesn't mean everyone else shares that sentiment. There exist view-points outside yours.

Some people have a more broad range of things they enjoy playing. To them, quality of experience is not a linear progression. I do not compare my games by "well, this one is a 6, and then the next one is a 10, and thus better in every way". Different games hit different beats, fill different voids, appeal to different tastes. Sometimes I want to be emotionally stimulated, so I play a serious game with a complex storyline. Sometimes I want to waste time and fuck around, so I play a sandbox game. Sometimes I just want to feel good, so I play a cute and charming game like TTYD.

Saying that games like TTYD are outclassed and obsolete because more complex RPGs exist is narrow-minded. Saying that you can only have fun with those games if you're an RPG n00b or a casual is elitist. And saying that a more complex and emotional RPG is always inherently and undeniably superior to a simple one in any situation or mood whatsoever is just plain wrong.

And now I would appreciate it if you stopped assigning merit and value to games for me. I am entirely capable of deciding whether I like a game and for what reason myself.
 
im not assigning anything, you wanted my view and i gave it to you edo, im just stating what my experince has taught me, and i never said ttyd is bad or you couldnt enjoy it.

I'm just saying that mario rpgs dont really evolve or dont do their atmost potential, stop overreacting and start thinking im not the only one like this.

If you dont want my opinion in this topic, then you just need to leave.
 
Zae Eildus said:
Time Turner said:
Zae Eildus said:
because mario rpgs really exist to cause some laughs or cater to rpg newbies.
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And you say that like it's a bad thing.
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to gamers that want more out of rpgs, yes.

infact its a very bad thing.
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Yeah, you didn't say it's a bad thing.
 
Yapyap said:
Zae Eildus said:
Time Turner said:
Zae Eildus said:
because mario rpgs really exist to cause some laughs or cater to rpg newbies.
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And you say that like it's a bad thing.
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to gamers that want more out of rpgs, yes.

infact its a very bad thing.
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Yeah, you didn't say it's a bad thing.
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Well i could, dunno if people wanna hear it or not though.
 
Mario RPG's target audience is everyone, but it includes children, who probably lack the coordination and the ability to manage ability trees and other complex mechanics carefully. When I was playing Diablo II, Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia years ago, stats and equipment meant almost nothing to me while my older brother just did all of that for us. We just want to play and have fun. Mario RPGs don't contain stuff kids will likely overlook like getting Mythril to craft stuff, keeping track of gems and creating slots for them, or wondering if we should up our dexterity or stamina stat. And again, some people don't like all of that stuff to take care of nor do they like convoluted stories, so MaRPGs and their simplicity comes off as elegant to some. Others find it unsophisticated and simplistic.

Again, my issue is that Mario's world is huge, so players probably have little incentive to play other RPGs and so it's pretty typical for a Mario fan to have a limited palette, especially for RPGs, and when they try kinda getting outside, it's all unfamiliar and they sort of turtle back to Mario RPGs. I haven't met a lot of Mario fans who played RPGs the extent Zae and Mcmadness do. I'm one of those people too, who find it hard to get outside my comfort zone, and I often default to Mario games or heavily modding my games to be Mario-themed, but again, I'm a Mario fanatic. Still, I'm not particularly attracted to MaRPGs so I'm kind of in this strange spot where I like the Mario theme of the MaRPGs, but not the gameplay or the story.

BTW, Edo, I don't think Zae's trying to argue if you should have fun or not, but given the sheer amount of RPGS he has played, I think his argument that MaRPGs are basic have a solid backing from pure experience and given my dabbling in a very few other RPGs like Skyrim, Borderlands, Tales of Symphonia, and Diablo, I also have my doubts that it's one of the best.
 
I am not arguing the fact that Mario RPGs are simple and easy to grasp. That would be stupid, since that's plainly evident if you just look at them. I'm also not denying that a lot of children and RPG beginners play them, and that some use them as an entry point to more complex RPGs.

The thing I am taking issue with is the notion that you have to measure RPGs on a linear scale, that everything on that line has to measure up to and prove its merit against the absolute top, and that apparently, enjoying the simplicity and charm of a game for its own sake is "a bad thing".

I'm not trying to take anyone's complex games away, or insinuate that TTYD is somehow on the same emotional scale as a Tales game or something. I just don't want to hear stuff like "Mario RPG is crap for babbies, why don't you play a REAL game like a REAL gamer!", because there's already enough gamer elitism around.
 
I like Paper Mario and Super Mario RPG, but generally I'm not a fan of RPGs. I think really the only other RPG I've played that I loved was EarthBound.

Granted, I haven't played that many others. I played the original Final Fantasy a long time ago. I played a few SEGA RPGs too, like Fatal Labyrinth and the Phantasy Star series. I played a few Pokémon titles, obviously. The only other one I can think of is the Undertale demo. I want to try that one day, it seemed fine. The boss fight was kinda boring, but it's the first one so I can potentially forgive that.
 
@Edo i didnt even say that i just merely listed what is wrong with the game and how those wrongs can go with in comparisons with the other games.

But if you think even for a damn SECOND that i think ttyd is a bad game in any fucking way because of that, then you need to rethink somethings.

There are bad things about ANY game i like, and i list a lot of them even in my top favorites like tales of vesperia, dragons dogma, dragon age, borderlands 2, and so on.

The problem here edo is that, you assumed that i thought it was shit, there are still simple rpgs that can be enjoyed, so calm down, slow down and think, and ask, what positives do i find in the game before making assumptions.

and most importantly, dont attack each other or make scenes based on someones opinion of a game, lets think like adults here not like enemies.
 
Funny, I didn't get that elitist vibe from Zae. And I didn't take it from his posts that you should feel bad for enjoying Paper Mario because better games exist, but more like "Paper Mario is fun and a great starter RPG, but it's not the best and it's not unique". And I probably add that it's not going to rank at the top for those highly invested in RPGs though again, a good addition to the RPG library.

Magikrazy said:
I like Paper Mario and Super Mario RPG, but generally I'm not a fan of RPGs. I think really the only other RPG I've played that I loved was EarthBound.

Granted, I haven't played that many others. I played the original Final Fantasy a long time ago. I played a few SEGA RPGs too, like Fatal Labyrinth and the Phantasy Star series. I played a few Pokémon titles, obviously. The only other one I can think of is the Undertale demo. I want to try that one day, it seemed fine. The boss fight was kinda boring, but it's the first one so I can potentially forgive that.
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Yeah, which your post reminded me, I suppose the MaRPGs are RPGs that would ring well for those who don't love RPGs.
 
yeah there are more advanced rpgs but it takes a lot to be unique in the world of games, especially today, but i do go back to play mario rpgs and more simplistic rpgs, i mean yeah they're not the top of my list, but well i have a big list mind you, but i still like them.

I still love chrono trigger and its ya know standard by todays things and i still love pokemon black 2 and white 2, but they're not too anything new really and i go back to lufia 2 and its pretty damn basic.

My point is here, that there are rpg gamers out there that want more on the unique side and for someone like that, how can i reconmend a mario game in that aspect with my knowledge is the real question.
 
oh damn i forgot about chrono trigger

thats one id really like to try

any others you can recommend me?
 
Magikrazy said:
oh damn i forgot about chrono trigger

thats one id really like to try

any others you can recommend me?
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well secret of mana is good, if you like pokemon then i can suggest lufia ruins of lore i think it is, theres also aquaria, dust an elysian tale, and quite a few others.

Real question is magikrazy, what do you want from an rpg really?
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
BTW, Edo, I don't think Zae's trying to argue if you should have fun or not, but given the sheer amount of RPGS he has played, I think his argument that MaRPGs are basic have a solid backing from pure experience and given my dabbling in a very few other RPGs like Skyrim, Borderlands, Tales of Symphonia, and Diablo, I also have my doubts that it's one of the best.
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You ignored the context. I didn't say TTYD is one of the best RPGs in existence. I said that, within a specific niche that I enjoy and that not many developers target, TTYD is the game I enjoy the most.


Zae Eildus said:
The problem here edo is that, you assumed that i thought it was shit, there are still simple rpgs that can be enjoyed, so calm down, slow down and think, and ask, what positives do i find in the game before making assumptions.
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I did not assume anything, Zae. Everything I have said is a direct response to something you have explicitely stated. I am not overreacting, in fact I have not made a single personal attack against you, which is usually what people do when they overreact. I do admit that things got heated, but even then I still made arguments, provided examples, and stayed within reasonable conversation parameters.

Continuing a discussion is not an overreaction, and countering your arguments is not making a scene.



In any case, the title of this thread addresses Mario RPG fans and asks them to explain what they would like to see in potential future RPGs. I have done that. I explained why I like TTYD, and that I would like to see some of its elements reoccur somewhere else. In response to that I have been told I am wrong, and asked to leave.

So I guess I'm going to leave.
 
guilt tripping isnt very good and yes i missed the context, but if thats how you feel edo, then thats how you feel.

But you did cause a scene, you caused a negative enviroment and thus caused a problem, but if you're leaving then well okay.
 
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