Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions

[Fawfulthegreat64]

I think that while the changes in M&L are baffling and not really necessary, they're also not nearly on the level of Paper Mario and the story/OCs from SSS is intact so a PMCS-level uprising would feel incredibly petty.

 

[PrinceLarryKoopa88]

!
I bet they're gonna give Leston some dialogue
¡

 

[Mcmadness]

Since they brought back the guide I wonder what affect it will have on other tutorials in the game?

 

[Fawfulthegreat64]

I never used the guide in Paper Jam, what exactly did it do?

 

[memoryman3]

This is going to be superior to the original game purely for it's amiibo support opening the gates for other characters not ever seen in these kinds of games before actually appearing and having an impact on gameplay.

 

[The Superstar Saga]

I on the other hand, would rather see noise get made so Nintendo higher ups can leave AlphaDream and IntelligentSystems alone to be original and creative with story and characters. But I always respect people who take the high road more than radicals such as myself. I respect you.

Any proof that it's nintendo who's been ordaining all of this, and it's not AlphaDream/IntelligentSystems taking the initiative here?

This:

AlphaDream has more autonomy, so it's fair to hold them responsible for trust. But Intelligent Systems cannot be blamed for trust issue and mistakes. It's the higher ups in Nintendo, like Miyamoto, that are responsible for the restrictions.

• What we do know is that AlphaDream fights back against Nintendo higher ups when restricted, and has more autonomy:
  • Dream Team: "The requests and suggestions by Nintendo on Alpha Dream were not always accepted and often required meetings, or discussions with the SPD producers. Sometimes both parties got annoyed with each other. " -http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67599871postcount=1, https://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/interview/aymj/vol1/index.html
  • Paper Jam: "Oh no, nothing to do with that! This time, since we had so many paper characters and doubles of the same character together, we had to prioritize moving the story forward and communicating the contrast between them. It would have been really difficult to put in original characters and work out when would be the best time for them to appear." -Ōtani, https://www.gamnesia.com/news/nintendo-explains-why-they-didnt-make-any-new-characters-for-mario-luigi-pa
  
  
• And Intelligent Systems on the other hand, gives in and obeys the Nintendo higher ups when restricted:
  • Sticker Star: "Aside from wanting us to change the atmosphere a lot, there were two main things that Miyamoto-san said from the start of the project-"It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?" and "As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world."
    -Tanabe, http://kotaku.com/5964444/miyamoto-convinced-the-people-behind-paper-mario-sticker-star-to-ditch-the-story
  • Color Splash: "Mario is not an IP that I created. From the position of someone borrowing the IP, I think it’s only natural to show respect to the person who created it, and let that feeling of respect guide us. So when Miyamoto-san, the father of Mario, asks us “could you make a game with only characters from the Mario family?”, I think it’s only natural for us to give it our best shot. In other words, we are not currently thinking about returning to old NPCs. Incidentally, I do think Color Splash may have proven that we can still make a game entertaining, even if our original characters don’t appear as NPCs. And with that belief, we will keep on continuing to do our best." -Tanabe, http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2016/12/28/afterwords-paper-mario-color-splash.aspx

Repression of story and original characters remains present in Paper Mario as Intelligent System submits to higher ups restrictions. But AlphaDream seemed to fight back and has since gained a lot more autonomy from Nintendo higher ups. So it's not so much about trusting the devs, the higher ups are typically the ones responsible.

The trend heavily implies it, of course, I could be wrong.

 

[Mcmadness]

I never used the guide in Paper Jam, what exactly did it do?

Tell you how to play instead of putting you through a forced tutorial.

This is going to be superior to the original game purely for it's amiibo support opening the gates for other characters not ever seen in these kinds of games before actually appearing and having an impact on gameplay.

Just keep telling yourself that.

 

[Czario]

Hrm, I probably won't bother getting this since I have the original on Virtual Console and I'm not all that impressed with this version.

 

[PrinceLarryKoopa88]

This is going to be superior to the original game purely for it's amiibo support opening the gates for other characters not ever seen in these kinds of games before actually appearing and having an impact on gameplay.

The original is king, no matter how many revisions you put into the new one.
Amiibo can't buy me out.

 

[Fawfulthegreat64]

This is going to be superior to the original game purely for it's amiibo support opening the gates for other characters not ever seen in these kinds of games before actually appearing and having an impact on gameplay.

The only way it'll be superior is if extra content is added to the main game, such as a Battle Ring. Even then, there's things the original still does better: more expressive pixel art and some designs being better suited to their role. Amiibo will only make a difference if they actually work in the main game, which I strongly doubt they will, but I'll eat my words if we get a boss fight against Wario and Waluigi in which they use their own twisted Bros. Attacks, OR if they give any original SSS character in this game an amiibo. But if amiibo support is just on the level of Paper Jam, no way in hell that alone will make this superior.

 

[Harpesian]

I've been seeing some things I prefer about the original but also things that I prefer about this version... I honestly feel like the optimal Superstar Saga to own is both of them lol.

 

[DragonFreak]

This is going to be superior to the original game purely for it's amiibo support opening the gates for other characters not ever seen in these kinds of games before actually appearing and having an impact on gameplay.

Lol like Nintendo ever using amiibos like that.

 

[The Superstar Saga]

I think that while the changes in M&L are baffling and not really necessary, they're also not nearly on the level of Paper Mario and the story/OCs from SSS is intact so a PMCS-level uprising would feel incredibly petty.

I considered the Bowser Baddies to be original characters of their own. Them being turned to generic koopas is the worst case scenario in regards to generic washing, so on the bright side it can't get any worse from here on out (Prince Peasly, Queen Bean, Popple, etc are safe). It doesn't change the fact that the retconning of the Bowser Baddies Flight Suit Koopas doesn't benefit anyone, and appears like a blatant continuation of the generic toad/koopa/goomba trend. It's anti-fanbase.

In memory of the Bowser Baddies, here's a comic someone made:

 

[Mcmadness]

I considered the Bowser Baddies to be original characters of their own.

No offense but, thats pretty dumb of you to do that. They were never anything more than just regular koopas wearing flight hats.

 

[The Superstar Saga]

I considered the Bowser Baddies to be original characters of their own.

No offense but, thats pretty dumb of you to do that. They were never anything more than just regular koopas wearing flight hats.

They wore flight uniforms for a reason, they were the Koopa Cruiser's crew. Just as the Koopa Cruiser is unique from other Airships, the Bowser Baddies were unique from generic Koopa Troopas. The flight suit designs added to the humor and overall fun of the first few areas of the game. Them being the first few characters you meet and help you out with tutorials sets the tone and first impression.

The fact remains, turning original characters into generic ones benefits no one. It just makes it bland for no beneficial reason, lowering the quality.

 

[Mcmadness]

It's not some kind of unique title they had. It's just another name for Bowser's army. He's had several over the years.

Flight suit or no, they are just regular run of the mill koopas.

 

[The Superstar Saga]

Then we could also just say the Koopa Cruiser is just a run of the mill Airship, and replace it with the most up to date generic Airship design.

Whether or not Bowser Baddies is just another name for his greater army all together, the Flight Uniform Koopas were the unique crew of the Koopa Cruiser. In the same way that the Koopa Cruiser is unique from Bowser's other Airships.

 

[Mcmadness]

Why not? They already replaced the glove hand with his claw from NSMBU.

Wouldn't make a difference anyway since it's in the game for like, 5 minutes tops.

This is seriously like complaining about Sonic's eyes being green.

 

[Yoshi the SSM]

Actually, the ship was only unique on the outside. It is a standard Airship on the inside. Wouldn't be surprise if they update it to New Super Mario Bros. (U) style.

 

[Time Turner]

This is seriously like complaining about Sonic's eyes being green.

the koopas' arms shouldn't be blue

 

[Ray Trace]

I'd prefer if they use the Koopa's flight uniforms rather than being naked. I don't know why, it's a nice aesthetic variation from the regular Koopas we usually see.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

I'd also prefer if they just kept the uniform since it's a nice aesthetic touch but at the same time it's not a big deal at all. It's not like you battled against them or they had anything unique about them otherwise.

If they made a Paper Mario remake and made Koopatrols regular Koopas or something like that, then I'd have a problem.

 

[The Superstar Saga]

Why not? They already replaced the glove hand with his claw from NSMBU.

Wouldn't make a difference anyway since it's in the game for like, 5 minutes tops.

This is seriously like complaining about Sonic's eyes being green.

It's a very valid complaint. How is retconning flight suit koopas of their unique designs and replacing them with generic ones beneficial in any way? It just removes personality for no reason.

This added on top of the generic washing that's been happening with Sticker Star, Paper Jam, Color Splash and now a bit with Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions; it looks like a trend. This trend does not benefit fans in anyway, and only serves as a detriment. So it's no wonder why I and other fans are upset.

Perhaps if there was something beneficial with removing the flight suit koopas, there would be a reasonable argument to be had. But zero good comes of this, only the loss of unique personalities that fans love (which is bad). So it's a very valid complaint. Why defend something that only offers loss, with no good trade off to offset the loss?

 

[Mcmadness]

They appear in Minion Quest and are apart of that game mode as playable characters. Thats why.

And they aren't called "flight suit koopas" so please stop, it's absurd.

Whats next, are you gonna call the goombas "Barrel Goombas" because they appear in a barrel?

Also don't even bring up that rubbish PM design nonsense, most of the paper Mario designs didn't debut in that game to begin with.

 

[The Superstar Saga]

The minion quest shouldn't have a bearing on the retention of the flight suit koopas designs. They could still have the game mode without needing to retcon the flight suit koopa design.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to call them flight suit koopas, because that's what they are. The crew of the Koopa Cruiser wear uniforms. The barrel goombas remain the same, so there's no need to refer to them as barrel goombas.

You still fail to present a reasonable argument as to why removing the flight suit koopas is beneficial, or the generic washing of any characters in the RPGs in recent years. If something only removes, and doesn't add anything in compensation, why defend it?