Alphadream files for bankruptcy

Bowler Hat Guy said:
As for Paper Jam, it's true they stated it was an intentional decision of AlphaDream to avoid OCs but I definitely feel like had Paper Mario not set a precedence for that, it wouldn't have been a restriction in a crossover. Like say if Paper Jam had released when there were only 3 Paper Mario games and 3 Mario & Luigi games, absolutely none of them would have a precedence of restricting to only mainline characters so the idea of combining both flavors of characters, different counterparts, etc would probably be more of a focus vs. just having the main cast and their doubles. So Miyamoto didn't make the call for Paper Jam, but his call in Sticker Star indirectly influenced it.
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Tbh even at the time, I didn't find that interview answer entirely honest, both because it seemed just too on-the-nose after the massive backlash Sticker Star got, and because the answer was by one of the Nintendo supervisor on the game rather than an AD employee. But with this new, and the twitter thread I linked above mentioned Nintendo told the company to be more cost-effective after Dream Team, I really can buy the main motivation behin Paper Jam's lame crossover wasn't some noble idea to keep the plot or a sinister edict to boringfy the Mario RPGs for grandmas, but mostly AD being too strapped for cash to do anything else.
 
Glowsquid said:
Tbh even at the time, I didn't find that interview answer entirely honest, both because it seemed just too on-the-nose after the massive backlash Sticker Star got, and because the answer was by one of the Nintendo supervisor on the game rather than an AD employee. But with this new, and the twitter thread I linked above mentioned Nintendo told the company to be more cost-effective after Dream Team, I really can buy the main motivation behin Paper Jam's lame crossover wasn't some noble idea to keep the plot or a sinister edict to boringfy the Mario RPGs for grandmas, but mostly AD being too strapped for cash to do anything else.
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Well bare in mind that interview was composed entirely fan questions and with how simple Mario & Luigi stories are it doesn't surprise me they went for the traditional crossover storyline.
 
Glowsquid said:
Tbh even at the time, I didn't find that interview answer entirely honest, both because it seemed just too on-the-nose after the massive backlash Sticker Star got, and because the answer was by one of the Nintendo supervisor on the game rather than an AD employee. But with this new, and the twitter thread I linked above mentioned Nintendo told the company to be more cost-effective after Dream Team, I really can buy the main motivation behin Paper Jam's lame crossover wasn't some noble idea to keep the plot or a sinister edict to boringfy the Mario RPGs for grandmas, but mostly AD being too strapped for cash to do anything else.
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I think this makes more sense but they did make new assets for several characters such as Biddybud, Sandmargh, Ninji, Bully, Fire Piranha Plant, Horned Ant Trooper, Urchin, Chargin' Chuck, King Bob-omb, Nabbit, the Koopalings, and Broozer as well as creating new perspective changes on some existing characters. They could've easily reused assets from Dream Team such as Popple and Kylie Koopa. Can someone fill me with a good explanation for why those characters got new sprites instead of the existing Mario & Luigi characters if they're also trying to cut costs?
 
Somewhat unrelated but on the topic of Paper Mario fans celebrating the end of AlphaDream since Mario & Luigi ending means there's now only one RPG series and it can go back to its roots?

It's some of the fucking nastiest behavior I've ever seen. People are losing jobs because of this, losing their livelihood, and people are celebrating it because of two different Mario RPGs 'having some possibility of a comeback'? Firstly, Mario & Luigi being gone doesn't suddenly mean Paper Mario is gonna go back to its roots. Secondly, uh, PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS? THAT'S KIND OF THE BIGGEST DEAL ABOUT THIS HERE?? DON'T CELEBRATE THAT???
 
I've seen that behavior on GameFAQs. I can't say I'm surprised at all. Moderation is gutter, trolls roam free in there.
 
Mcmadness said:
Well bare in mind that interview was composed entirely fan questions and with how simple Mario & Luigi stories are it doesn't surprise me they went for the traditional crossover storyline.
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I beg to differ, I could argue Mario & Luigi Dream Team had a deep story. What makes a story good or deep to you?
 
Pokerninja2 said:
Somewhat unrelated but on the topic of Paper Mario fans celebrating the end of AlphaDream since Mario & Luigi ending means there's now only one RPG series and it can go back to its roots?

It's some of the fucking nastiest behavior I've ever seen. People are losing jobs because of this, losing their livelihood, and people are celebrating it because of two different Mario RPGs 'having some possibility of a comeback'? Firstly, Mario & Luigi being gone doesn't suddenly mean Paper Mario is gonna go back to its roots. Secondly, uh, PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS? THAT'S KIND OF THE BIGGEST DEAL ABOUT THIS HERE?? DON'T CELEBRATE THAT???
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It makes me upset too. As much as I hate the direction Paper Mario went in, the fact that people are happy about Mario & Luigi and AlphaDream's end is selfish.

However I don't know if people losing their jobs is such a horrible fate. It's unfortunate and sad, but a natural part of the world we live in. Nothing lasts forever. Companies go bankrupt, people get laid off, but not often does it mean they end up homeless struggling to survive on the street. AlphaDream's developers have a great resume dating over a decade, I'm sure they can find a new job in the gaming industry, if not the entertainment industry overall. Then again, I could be ignorant of Japan's culture: it's possible that it could be harder to bounce back from losing a job in Japan than in the Western world.

I love AlphaDream and thank them for the fantastic childhood memories and adventures they gave me, and I feel bad for their closure. Best of luck to them, but knowing their talent I'm confident they'll be able to make it in life.
 
Losing your job is really bad. While I can't speak for Japan, one person I know has professional credentials in 3D modeling and has teaching credentials too, teaching mostly college kids. He lost his job from a faltering college and subsequently spent week after week filling maybe 200 resumes and getting interviewed once while his savings ran nearly dry, partially due to the unholy rent of SoCal to be fair. Regaining a well paying job with those credentials is tough enough, and I can't imagine it'll be easier if you had game development experience.
 
That's really rough. sorry to hear about your college professor friend, hope he's in a better position these days, I'm sure he'll land something eventually he sounds like a really talented guy.
 
Given how there is a general discontent on Paper Mario's current direction, would news be taken more happily if its developers are the one who lost their jobs? Personally I am fine with them wanting to experiment because I could name a lot of thing to like about their current games, but the fact that many people found it to still be unsatisfactory leads me to think that perhaps the thought of vengeance might be strong as time goes.

(Of course, that would likely mean that WarioWare's developers would too be gone, since the more recent games share its developers)

Thank you for reading.
 
TheSuperStarSaga said:
I beg to differ, I could argue Mario & Luigi Dream Team had a deep story. What makes a story good or deep to you?
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You could try to argue that but boy oh boy would you be wrong.
As for what makes a story good to me, depends on what we are talking about, for me a "good" Mario story would be something light hearted and humorous with an emphasis on adventure and whimsy. But no matter what it would have to be simplistic as thats all Mario is capable of being (and all it should be) which is why I don't hold any Mario stories in high regard.
 
Mcmadness said:
You could try to argue that but boy oh boy would you be wrong.
As for what makes a story good to me, depends on what we are talking about, for me a "good" Mario story would be something light hearted and humorous with an emphasis on adventure and whimsy. But no matter what it would have to be simplistic as thats all Mario is capable of being (and all it should be) which is why I don't hold any Mario stories in high regard.
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So what Mario game do you think pushes those boundaries the most without going too far over the line.
Just a friendly question to keep the discussion going.
 
Which boundaries are we talking here exactly?
 
Pokerninja2 said:
Well contray to what people say, Super Paper Mario has an easy-to-understand plot but considering your dislike for that game I'd assume that breaks the boundaries somewhere.
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Well I've ranted about that game many times over (you could probably find a topic about it round here somewhere) but to give the short end of it.

It takes itself way too seriously and the main Mario characters (including Mario himself) take the backseat to a bunch of lame one offs. It feels like a lame fanfiction and it is the prime example of how I would NEVER write a Mario storyline.

Odyssey is probably the most story I'd ever be willing to accept in a mainline Mario game.
 
Mcmadness said:
Well I've ranted about that game many times over (you could probably find a topic about it round here somewhere) but to give the short end of it.

It takes itself way too seriously and the main Mario characters (including Mario himself) take the backseat to a bunch of lame one offs. It feels like a lame fanfiction and it is the prime example of how I would NEVER write a Mario storyline.

Odyssey is probably the most story I'd ever be willing to accept in a mainline Mario game.
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All fair viewpoints.
 
The PM series getting more melodramatic with TTYD and SPM is one of the reasons why I felt the M&L series was generally a more well written series when it came to getting the tone of Mario correctly. Their stories were primarily more silly and humorous and they got the personalities of the longtime characters more in line of what I'd expect of them.
 
TheSuperStarSaga said:
I beg to differ, I could argue Mario & Luigi Dream Team had a deep story. What makes a story good or deep to you?
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i find it hard to explain what i think would constitute as a deep story but i can only compare its examples to other games with i feel deeper stories. stories like gta v and fallout: new vegas that have deeper, more subtle meanings underwoven into its main plots.

keep in mind, that i haven't played much games outside of nintendo to begin with but it's a huge world out there and there are probably examples that have left my mind.
 
Yeah, most Mario RPGs have simplistic plots that don't take themselves too seriously, which is what Mario games should be doing, imo. Thousand-Year Door kind of pushed that line, but I feel that the more serious parts were in a limited-enough quantity that it doesn't quite cross it. Super Paper Mario went overboard in every way and is a perfect example of what a Mario RPG shouldn't do.
 
Dr. Baby Luigi said:
i find it hard to explain what i think would constitute as a deep story but i can only compare its examples to other games with i feel deeper stories. stories like gta v and fallout: new vegas that have deeper, more subtle meanings underwoven into its main plots.

keep in mind, that i haven't played much games outside of nintendo to begin with but it's a huge world out there and there are probably examples that have left my mind.
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For sure, in terms of depth of lore and world building, there are definitely many series that have gone way deeper than Mario RPGs. Elder Scrolls for example comes to mind with how deep the series is in terms of lore. Part of that is due to continuity so the lore builds off each other. Whereas each Paper Mario story takes place in radically different worlds so the lore doesn't build; rather it restarts each time (ie. the history of Rogueport has little/no connection to the history of Flipside). At the same time I find while Elder Scrolls has great depth in lore, it has very shallow meanings/morals underwoven in its main plots. Such as 'Light versus Dark' or 'Good versus Evil' represented in Elder Scrolls V; Oblivion with the citizens of Cyrodiil fighting back against the dark Daedra for example. I think Dream Team in particular has some really heartwarming meaning/morals central to its story, I can do a write up on those examples later.

Deepness in a story can be determined through quality of lore, complexity of meanings/morals, and many other elements. Often there will always be better and worse stories out there, but maybe the best way to judge a story is how well it stands up on its own.
 
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