Alphadream files for bankruptcy

Mcmadness said:
You could try to argue that but boy oh boy would you be wrong.
As for what makes a story good to me, depends on what we are talking about, for me a "good" Mario story would be something light hearted and humorous with an emphasis on adventure and whimsy. But no matter what it would have to be simplistic as thats all Mario is capable of being (and all it should be) which is why I don't hold any Mario stories in high regard.
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Thanks for taking me up on the discussion! This splits into two premises:
  • Why is simplicity a necessity for a story to be a good Mario story?
  • Would you agree there could be a Mario game with a good story, even while not being a good Mario story?

For example, you've stated you don't think Super Paper Mario is a good Mario story, but would you acknowledge it as a good story on it's own merits?
 
Professor E. Gadd said:
Yeah, most Mario RPGs have simplistic plots that don't take themselves too seriously, which is what Mario games should be doing, imo. Thousand-Year Door kind of pushed that line, but I feel that the more serious parts were in a limited-enough quantity that it doesn't quite cross it. Super Paper Mario went overboard in every way and is a perfect example of what a Mario RPG shouldn't do.
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hard disagree on that last one imo, the story is what makes it my favorite entry in the series. I think a better example of what a MaRPG shouldn't do can be found one entry later.

"Deep" isn't a word I'd use to describe Dream Team but it certainly had heartfelt moments and is a great game with great characters. But I definitely would lean more towards the darker and more complex plots for my MaRPG preference in most cases. SPM scratching that itch so hard is why I'll jump to defend it whenever I see it lumped with the later games, but at least most complaints are about the gameplay being changed, which is at least more understandable.
 
Bowler Hat Guy said:
hard disagree on that last one imo, the story is what makes it my favorite entry in the series. I think a better example of what a MaRPG shouldn't do can be found one entry later.
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SPM's story wasn't bad, but I just don't think Mario games should go that far. It was just over-the-top and took itself too seriously. It had none of the Mario charm and humor that Mario RPGs are known for. I feel it was a good plot, just not a good Mario plot. Say what you will about Sticker Star's plot, but at least it remembered that it had "Mario" in the title.

I completely respect your opinion, though. After all, I'm a very big fan of what may well be the most divisive Mario & Luigi game.
 
TheSuperStarSaga said:
Thanks for taking me up on the discussion! This splits into two premises:
  • Why is simplicity a necessity for a story to be a good Mario story?
  • Would you agree there could be a Mario game with a good story, even while not being a good Mario story?

For example, you've stated you don't think Super Paper Mario is a good Mario story, but would you acknowledge it as a good story on it's own merits?
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Because Mario has thrived on simplicity for pretty much it's entire life. It's the series I play when I'm NOT looking for something to get heavily invested in or need to put much thought into beyond what I'm currently doing at that moment. And to be frank in general it's potential as a series to tell interesting stories is very, VERY low. Even SPM which I've heard many tout as the "best Mario story" is just a painfully average jrpg storyline. I mean shit most of it's major story beats are basically the same as Dragon Quest 4. A game that came out on the NES for pete's sake.

Basically I've often felt that were it not for the Mario licensing, no one would give a crap about the Mario rpg storylines as they are all really quite generic.
 
IMO Mario does it best when it's simple or it's absolutely stupid. There's just no way for Mario to tell a story that has components of a great story: complex facets of personality, socio-political commentary (maybe?), complex motivations, heavy use of ambiguity; no plot holes, no Mary Sues, ; it'll not jive with the rest of the design without impeding on gameplay and character design, which is easy to follow, easy to understand, easy to learn. Simple story is fine! It's a design choice developers often have to tussle with and it has to be balanced as well as the game as well should developers choose to have a bit of a story. A nice story or characters can be good though I feel there would be little point to making one stand out if people ultimately would pay so little attention to it especially given the audience for Mario games. And if I had to choose between a complex story and complex gameplay, I'd go for gameplay. Gimme Mario with the depth and overwhelming bunch of stats of a Monster Hunter game, that'll be great.

Mario Tennis Aces did story-telling best, with its demonic evil tennis racket, though the only thing it's really missing is Mario talking and having some dumb Toad talk for him. To be fair, it's not a problem unique to Mario Tennis Aces.
 
AlphaDream's problems stem from a combination of poor sales, poor management, poor decisions, and bad luck. There's little we can do to help when it comes to business stuff. AlphaDream has been running into millions in deficit for more than a year or so, and its revenue was probably on decline well before that. But anyhow, that hat-shaped ship has flown and sunk. It's not salvageable.
 
Best you can hope is they re-group under a new name/different company and continue working.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. I mean thats what happened with Hudson and NDCube.
 
I mean Mario Party did change for a good while following that switch though, notably the series pretty much stopped incorporating unique hosts and any series-specific characters and started using common Mario characters instead (where they better fit being playable in that series). Even if Super Mario Party went back to the classic gameplay somewhat, the series remains almost ignorant of all the characters the Hudson games featured like Koopa Kid. Almost as if their licensing got lost. They did get shouted out in Top 100 but are pretty obviously being avoided wherever possible, like Koopa Kid's roles being replaced by Bowser Jr. I definitely don't want that to happen with M&L, if every future game has the character variety of Paper Jam I'll be disappointed.

I only want M&L back if it continues to not only have the charm but the bizarre & wacky original character designs mixed with the common Mario characters. Without that it doesn't feel the same. It's why I hate modern Paper Mario and anything it touches.
 
Well Mario Party wasn't exactly huge on the whole OCs thing. You could probably count the amount of notable OCs in Mario Party on 2 hands.

As for the gameplay shift, whether they had gone down or not I feel 9 still would have turned out the way it did as when 8 came out people were (at the time) really shitting on the repetitiveness of Mario Party and it's formula.

So It's a different sort of thing overall I'd say.
 
Bowler Hat Guy said:
I mean Mario Party did change for a good while following that switch though, notably the series pretty much stopped incorporating unique hosts and any series-specific characters and started using common Mario characters instead (where they better fit being playable in that series). Even if Super Mario Party went back to the classic gameplay somewhat, the series remains almost ignorant of all the characters the Hudson games featured like Koopa Kid. Almost as if their licensing got lost. They did get shouted out in Top 100 but are pretty obviously being avoided wherever possible, like Koopa Kid's roles being replaced by Bowser Jr. I definitely don't want that to happen with M&L, if every future game has the character variety of Paper Jam I'll be disappointed.

I only want M&L back if it continues to not only have the charm but the bizarre & wacky original character designs mixed with the common Mario characters. Without that it doesn't feel the same. It's why I hate modern Paper Mario and anything it touches.
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Like Mcmadness above said, people were getting tired of the repetitive Mario Party formula by the time Mario Party 8 is released. I don't think you can say the same is being said for Mario & Luigi, as even detractors of Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam admit that the game is still fun and engaging from a gameplay standpoint.

Should AlphaDream regroup as a new company or Nintendo buys them out so they can develop in-house, I don't think it'll change that much since it's the same people working on it. The event that Nintendo decides to hand Mario & Luigi to a new developer is what I think should be raising these concerns more. I'm no expert on what goes on behind closed doors so I could be entirely on the wrong track though.
 
Note: Red text represents my anger, and the darker it is, the angrier I am.

How can a game as good as Bowser's Inside Story become one of the worst selling Mario games?

First off, it's a Nintendo DS remake on the backwards compatible 3DS that wasn't even a decade old yet when the remake released. Partners in Time would have been a far better game to remake despite the fact that I absolutely despise that game because 1) it released all the way back in 2005, and 2) it's the second Mario and Luigi game. It would have made far more sense to remake that game. Being a remake of a game that is backwards compatible already puts it at a major disadvantage, but it gets worse: I'm just scratching the surface.

Second, marketing for the game is literally nonexistent. The only piece of marketing this game had is a commercial for Japan.

Third, this game was released in January, the worst time of year to release a game. Christmas 2018 was only a few weeks before this game released, so parents and consumers were still done after Christmas shopping.

Fourth, this game released on the 3DS in 2019. By 2017, people already stopped actively buying games for the 3DS. Releasing a remake of a backwards compatible game on the 3DS in January 2019 with little to no marketing already seems like a setup for disaster, right? Well, here's the worst part.

Fifth, and most importantly, they released it on January 11, 2019, the same day as New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, a port of one of the most generic Mario games in the series. To start, that is COMPLETELY idiotic to do. Any moron can tell you that. Releasing two games from different genres and that vary in quality in the same franchise on the same day is a bad idea. Even Morton Koopa Jr. would do a better job at marketing games, and that's saying something, considering how moronic he is. Not only that, but Nintendo actually BOTHERED to market New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, while Bowser's Inside Story was in the shadows. What makes it worse is the fact that being outshined by one of the most generic, blandest, most unimaginative, laziest, underwhelming, and soulless corporate cash grab Mario games is enough to shatter ANYONE'S self-esteem into microscopic pieces.

One of the best, most creative, and cool Mario games was outshined by the game that introduced Peachette and started the whole Super Crown fiasco. AND WORST OF ALL, THIS IS WHY ALPHADREAM WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. Nintendo, your stupidity is going to get what it deserves, because I have fury. MAXIMUM FURY. ZYGARDE, POWER CONSTRUCT! USE CORE ENFORCER ON NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. U DELUXE! YVELTAL, USE OBLIVION WING ON PARTNERS IN TIME AND ELDER PRINCESS SHROOB!
 
This is really sad. I think the "Mario and Luigi" games are really good (then again I'm such an adult Mario fanboy I like virtually everything having to do with that franchise). Too bad the developer's going out of business.
 
Greninja The Mario Karter said:
Note: Red text represents my anger, and the darker it is, the angrier I am.

How can a game as good as Bowser's Inside Story become one of the worst selling Mario games?

First off, it's a Nintendo DS remake on the backwards compatible 3DS that wasn't even a decade old yet when the remake released. Partners in Time would have been a far better game to remake despite the fact that I absolutely despise that game because 1) it released all the way back in 2005, and 2) it's the second Mario and Luigi game. It would have made far more sense to remake that game. Being a remake of a game that is backwards compatible already puts it at a major disadvantage, but it gets worse: I'm just scratching the surface.

Second, marketing for the game is literally nonexistent. The only piece of marketing this game had is a commercial for Japan.

Third, this game was released in January, the worst time of year to release a game. Christmas 2018 was only a few weeks before this game released, so parents and consumers were still done after Christmas shopping.

Fourth, this game released on the 3DS in 2019. By 2017, people already stopped actively buying games for the 3DS. Releasing a remake of a backwards compatible game on the 3DS in January 2019 with little to no marketing already seems like a setup for disaster, right? Well, here's the worst part.

Fifth, and most importantly, they released it on January 11, 2019, the same day as New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, a port of one of the most generic Mario games in the series. To start, that is COMPLETELY idiotic to do. Any moron can tell you that. Releasing two games from different genres and that vary in quality in the same franchise on the same day is a bad idea. Even Morton Koopa Jr. would do a better job at marketing games, and that's saying something, considering how moronic he is. Not only that, but Nintendo actually BOTHERED to market New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, while Bowser's Inside Story was in the shadows. What makes it worse is the fact that being outshined by one of the most generic, blandest, most unimaginative, laziest, underwhelming, and soulless corporate cash grab Mario games is enough to shatter ANYONE'S self-esteem into microscopic pieces.

One of the best, most creative, and cool Mario games was outshined by the game that introduced Peachette and started the whole Super Crown fiasco. AND WORST OF ALL, THIS IS WHY ALPHADREAM WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. Nintendo, your stupidity is going to get what it deserves, because I have fury. MAXIMUM FURY. ZYGARDE, POWER CONSTRUCT! USE CORE ENFORCER ON NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. U DELUXE! YVELTAL, USE OBLIVION WING ON PARTNERS IN TIME AND ELDER PRINCESS SHROOB!
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what the fuck is this post fam.
 
It's worth noting the context of the game, which was elaborated pretty thoroughly in the thread. AlphaDream's revenue stream was on steady decline since Dream Team. Dream Team was a very expensive game to make, and it never quite made back its costs, so it's basically a bomb that dealt a wound on AlphaDream that never recovered. The series was starting to be on autopilot probably even when Bowser's Inside Story released, so AlphaDream was going for gimmicks and more gimmicks for a crowd that was increasingly fatigued for the games until they decided to try to make quick bucks for easy remakes, which culminated in the last Mario offering. AlphaDream's portfolio itself wasn't even that impressive, no diversity in notable games they outputted, so I guess it's a reason they were shuttered rather than restructured and absorbed into the company.

You have to come to terms that even in AlphaDream's better years, their games do nowhere near the amount of sales that a moderately successful 2D Mario game does in its drunken slumber. It shouldn't surprise you that New Super Bros. Deluxe is one of the top system sellers. It can be frustrating to see something like New Soupy Bros gargle out a game that somehow looks worse and worse every time you come back from playing Super Mario Bros. Wonder, see that outperform any Mario & Luigi or Paper Mario game by the airship load, but also it's not something to get worked up over. It's something you'll learn and accept over the years. I was annoyed too years ago at the 2d output and seeing what happened to Mario Party, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, but nowadays it doesn't phaze me as much. I just started caring a lot less about the games. It would be nice to see Mario & Luigi back (and it stars Baby Mario and Baby Luigi), but again, not something I particularly am upset about.
 
Honestly they could have marketed the crap out of BIS and I don't think anyone would have cared all that much.

Anyone who played it already got it and you could still play the original game on the very system they were remaking it. The BIS remake was a desperation move caused by their end. Not the cause of end itself.

I would also point out Alphadream's main stream of revenue came from small scale handheld games based off various licensed properties which by the time the 3DS was a thing just weren't around anymore.
 
I'm long past the days where I'll be visibly upset if a game sells poorly. Ultimately, I'm not the one benefitting from a video game's sales and if sales means a series gets shuttered, well oh well I guess, time to play another game.
 
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