Paper Mario: The Origami King

[winstein]

ソフトコレクション | マリオポータル | Nintendo

マリオシリーズのソフトをご紹介します。

www.nintendo.co.jp

Paper Mario has been added to the Japanese Mario Portal

When I checked the RPG section, only two of the Paper Mario games were listed. The first Paper Mario and Thousand-Year Door. Which is appropriate from what I see, since the former is like a story that has its origins as a Super Mario RPG follow-up (Mario Story) and the latter is explicitly an RPG (it's called Paper Mario RPG in Japan). If you are wondering, the Paper Mario games after Thousand-Year Door are listed under "Adventure" (all four of them, including Origami King). I used to think that Thousand-Year Door is the transition point for Paper Mario to have a bigger focus on the creative uses of paper, but I suppose Super Paper Mario has a hand in it for focusing away from the traditional RPG aspects.

In general, games that act as transitions between the old approach and the new approach is fascinating, because in a lot of cases they are lauded as the best games, such as Pokemon Black/White. For example, the name is a call back to the simple colour names of older games, but it has a double meaning on the game's story, which future versions will use to their advantage, including Sun/Moon and Sword/Shield. Those games also have some things that are the last in line and the first in line, such as the use of sprites for the former and streamlining the adventure into a linear path for the latter.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Fawfulthegreat64]

What seems weirder to me is that the "Action" category includes the entire M&L series, but the only Paper Mario featured is PM64.

 

[Diamant]

Has a new Legion of Stationery been discovered?

In case you don't want to see the image of the possible Legion of Stationery, I preferred to put the link in a spoiler...

Spoiler

r/papermario - The newest American ad for TOK provided a small look at the third Legion of Stationary Member, Hole Puncher.

53 votes and 9 comments so far on Reddit

www.reddit.com

If you look at the newest ad for PM:TOK, at the dancing sequence, you can see the Yellow Streamer roll behind the door on the back, which are guarded by Legion of Stationery members.

Spoiler

Considering there are multiple faceless Toads there, that would make sense.

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[Ray Trace]

Wait, how does person who took the image know that the Legion of Stationery is called a "he"?

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Anything that's not pink and doesn't have a big ribbon and isn't wearing a dress is a "he" in society obviously

 

[Koops]

Looks like a "it" to me

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

You'd be surprised at how people call ambiguous things a "he" when "it" is officially used. Cough Pokemon cough.

 

[Mcmadness]

 

[Diamant]

Well, it's confirmed that there isn't EXP mechanics for the battle system in The Origami King, and you can't control partners in battles (seems they just have one move and that's it). You only get coins and confettis from fighting enemies.

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I expected that for no EXP, but it is still quite disappointing.

 

[YoshiFlutterJump]

You only get coins and confettis from fighting enemies.

Well I mean confetti basically sounds like the hammer scraps from Color Splash, which is still a battle incentive even though it isn't traditional EXP. Honestly as long as the battles are fun, that's all I need.

 

[Diamant]

Well I mean confetti basically sounds like the hammer scraps from Color Splash, which is still a battle incentive even though it isn't traditional EXP. Honestly as long as the battles are fun, that's all I need.

Hammer Scraps was actually useful to increase your Paint Gauge in Color Splash, this doesn't look like there is something like this in this game. Confetti is more like the paint version of Origami King, and you can actually found confettis on the overworld, which makes the battles less incentive and more tedious in the long run to me.

 

[Mcmadness]

Treat the game as if it were a zelda game, not an rpg. You'll be less bothered that way.

 

[Diamant]

Treat the game as if it were a zelda game, not an rpg. You'll be less bothered that way.

What about playing a Zelda game instead?

 

[Mcmadness]

What about playing a Zelda game instead?

I mean, I could say that for any of the Paper Marios, just replace Zelda with "any other rpg"

I'm just saying, this game like CS before it is basically a Mario take on Zelda but with turn based combat, for all the good and bad that brings.

 

[Diamant]

I mean, I could say that for any of the Paper Marios, just replace Zelda with "any other rpg"

I'm just saying, this game like CS before it is basically a Mario take on Zelda but with turn based combat, for all the good and bad that brings.

Yeah, I understand that, but the least they could do is to make the combat part interesting and rewarding. If I can complete the whole game without doing lots of battles then what's the point of adding such battle system in the first place? That's why I preferred EXP and level ups, which allowed me to use different skills and strategies (like with the badges), for me, that's what makes fighting interesting.

https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1281212263555162113

I previewed Paper Mario and tried to answer some of the most pressing questions. No XP No real leveling up Combat minimizes attacks and is primarily about the line-up phase to the point where if you successfully line them up, you'll almost always win on the first turn.

https://twitter.com/luigimark21/status/1281213263582244864

Q: Then what's the purpose of battling?
A: Fantastic question! I've started running past them where I can.

 

[Mcmadness]

Battles are an obstacle, you are fight them or run past them, like most games ever and most games almost never give you a reason for actually doing so. RPGs were the exception due to exp and loot, which this game is according to the devs, not an rpg.

Thus lack of incentives beyond getting past them is not a problem.

 

[YoshiFlutterJump]

Battles are an obstacle, you are fight them or run past them, like most games ever and most games almost never give you a reason for actually doing so. RPGs were the exception due to exp and loot, which this game is according to the devs, not an rpg.

Thus lack of incentives beyond getting past them is not a problem.

I've been waiting to hear someone else say this.

 

[Jackie Frost]

i like being rewarded for going out of my way and fighting an enemy when i could just run away for little or no cost. especially if its turn based because then it actually ends up chewing up a lot of my time if it happens regularly.

 

[Ray Trace]

you guys are cowards for running away and not killing everything you see like you're doing the genocide run in undertale

 

[Diamant]

Well, if it's for adding a battle system that is more of a time-waster than anything else, than perhaps just do real-time battles (like in SPM) and be done with it, it would always be more fun than running away from battles which serves no purpose.

you guys are cowards for running away and not killing everything you see like you're doing the genocide run in undertale

I can agree with that, I am almost constantly doing the "KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM" route in RPGs lmao.

 

[Jackie Frost]

you guys are cowards for running away and not killing everything you see like you're doing the genocide run in undertale

i'm doing that in partners in time at the moment because when i didn't in superstar saga in turned out badly, and partners in time reportedly gets pretty hard especially the final boss so i'm making sure i prepare well

 

[Moldomré]

I'm honestly probably gonna still battle even if coins aren't that useful. I mean, depending on whether or not the battles are fun to do.

 

[Koopa con Carne]

Battles are an obstacle, you are fight them or run past them, like most games ever and most games almost never give you a reason for actually doing so. RPGs were the exception due to exp and loot, which this game is according to the devs, not an rpg.

Thus lack of incentives beyond getting past them is not a problem.

if they don't want to make an rpg then they shouldn't add turn-based battles without some kind of reward that you cannot* normally find on the overworld (EXP). engaging in battles when you don't have a reason to is repetitive and makes enemies more like a nuisance than a genuine obstacle.

that said, paper mario battles tend to be on the easy side anyway so at least you're quickly done with them. also, there are crazy anomalies like myself who actually go their way to defeat every single enemy on a map out of habit regardless of game, even in sticker star. but not everyone has that kind of internal push so you have to design an incentive for them, which modern paper mario don't, and that's bad.

you guys are cowards for running away and not killing everything you see like you're doing the genocide run in undertale

you don't feel bad for the monsters in undertale?

 

[Cocoa]

Not the Return the Form we all wanted, but it's gonna be pretty good nonetheless

 

[Glowsquid]

Battles are an obstacle, you are fight them or run past them, like most games ever and most games almost never give you a reason for actually doing so. RPGs were the exception due to exp and loot, which this game is according to the devs, not an rpg.

Thus lack of incentives beyond getting past them is not a problem.

I don't agree with this; player motivation is important.

It is broadly true that in most games where there are no RPG elements, there's little or no external reward to fighting enemies (unless you count points, but most people don't). However, in a well-designed Mario, Gradius, Doom or what have you, fighting is not superfluous in that you will need to interact the enemies, because they impede your ability to navigate the level, are strong and mobile enough that you have to fight them, progession is gated until you kill them, and so on. In that respect, enemies are a part of the level design.

The problem with the new Paper Mario games is that the battle, on top of not being very engaging for many reasons (which to be fair, this game seems to improve on), are superfluous. Mobs are easy enough to walk around and whatever you get from defeating them, you often get in abundance outside the battle system just by exploring the level. If you can just skip a sizable portion of the mechanics and be no worse for it (or even better off not, because then there's a risk you'll waste valuable collectables you'll have to backtrack to), what's the point? Indeed, to go back to my earlier point about what motivation is, action games where enemies are not threatening and can be easily bypassed, or when the combat systems offers a lot of options but there is no point in using them when an handful are safer, easier and more effective get criticized for that. Because they don't provide motivation.

Now it's possible Origami King will apply an action game logic to its battle system. That it'll make battles really hard to escape and the battle system will be fun and deep enough people won't mind the lack of external motivation.

But, when Sticker Star is legitimately one of the worst-designed mainstream game release of the past 10 years

-When Color Splash barely improved on its problems and introduced new ones

-and when I read shit like this

-I'm not hopeful. Is like, after two lame duck releases, it should be Intelligent System's task to convince me their battle system is good, and not mine to make excuses for the game. And honestly, I feel these new Paper Mario games would work much better if they embraced the whole adventure game and exploration aspect and stopped clinging to the vestigial RPG bits that they're clearly not invested in making work.