Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

I mean yeah. Lore is something I'd want to see in games like Zelda or Fire Emblem, because there you can get really serious as it's not supposed to be the carefree franchise that Mario seems to be.
 
Abe Lincoln except Toad said:
Unpopular opinion for the new year:
Wart is boring and is a forgetful one-off that shouldn't be brought back.
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Not saying you should love him but I don't like it when someone says a character serves no purpose and should not be given a second chance to be improved and less boring.

I mean Bowser was also super bland and boring in the first game, and now here he is with 1000% more awesomeness.
 
What is Wart's potential, though? The only thing that really sets him apart from Bowser is that you beat him by tossing veggies, and he spews bubbles. The problem with Wart is that he's so similar to Bowser, the cartoon even decided to make King Koopa some hideous mashup of the two.
 
Bowser at least had the benefit of a unique character design in his debut. Wart doesn't even have that.
 
Wart is also from a game that started as a Mario game then became Doki Doki Panic and then was somehow leftover when it became a Mario game again. That would make Wart a rip-off to an extent, doesn't it?
 
I can appreciate lore and I do love connecting settings and whatnot together, but I really like expanding on characters.
Of course, Wart's issue is a combination of mostly being a Bowser stand-in and generally lack of interest in using him; the platformers never get complicated enough to really necesitate a villain other than Bowser and even if they did, they could just invent one like what Captain Toad did with Wingo or Luigi's Mansion with King Boo. Meanwhile, the Paper Mario games hate using mainline characters while Mario & Luigi not only didn't so much as allude to Wart in Dream Team, they could probably just bring back Midbus if they need a Bowser foil that badly.
 
You mean like another foil for Bowser since that used to be floating star tumor's role.
 
I meant a foil in a more "similarities" case, but sure.
Man, I miss when Starlow played off of Bowser. I mean, sure she still insulted Luigi, but she's much better when she argues with someone who can bite back.
 
Mario Party X said:
Wart is also from a game that started as a Mario game then became Doki Doki Panic and then was somehow leftover when it became a Mario game again. That would make Wart a rip-off to an extent, doesn't it?
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That was simply a prototype that Mario was used in, and was never intended to be in the final game. In fact, that was so early in development that even if it was originally intended as a Mario game, they hadn't even come up with Wart. So no, Wart only became a Mario character when Doki Doki Panic became Mario USA.
 
ThatGuy62 said:
the Paper Mario games hate using mainline characters
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Not as much as they hate making new ones like the first 3 or bringing any of those back, that's for sure :/

Color Splash made reference to Wart when one of those filthy cretins was talking about a nightmare, but yeah I think he deserves a second chance. I'm not sure I want him as a main antagonist in an RPG unless they really go to work on him to give him the memorability of most of the other RPG villains, but a new platforming game could solidify him with a 3D model, give modern voice clips and design a cool boss fight, while opening the door for appearances in other games, including the RPGs and Mario Kart. It would just be nice to see a fresh face behind the conflict of a Mario platformer for once. If Wart does appear in an RPG, I'd like to see him interact with Antasma as both are dream-based villains (and I refuse to accept Antasma's insulting "death," that was the most anticlimactic thing ever, at least give him lines and make a bigger deal out of it than just treating him like a minor inconvenience)

One thing they could do to set Wart apart is to bring his army back together, including the ones that were retconned into Bowser's army afterward. Sure you could have some Shy Guys working for Bowser (otherwise General Guy couldn't exist) but have them much more prevalent in Wart's army, and make Snifits exclusive to it, also bring back all the SMB2 bosses with re imagined boss fights to further distinguish this villain group from Bowser's.
 
Anything they come up with Bowser could already do. It would be just a different person for the sake of a different person.
 
The way I see it, just because Bowser can do it doesn't mean a fresh face is such a bad idea every once in a while. And it could allow Bowser to focus more in a particular direction too, he has themes such as lava, spikes and whatnot, and yeah he can do other things but it would be cool to have different villains for different themes. Bowser for the traditional castles with lava, Wart for fantasy/dreamy themes, Fawful for technology and science (and to be a villain's villain like with BIS) etc. Tatanga and/or Shroobs for alien/space theme. Wario and Waluigi for evil doppelganger style villains, there's a lot to work with beyond just Bowser.

Sure they CAN keep twisting Bowser into every theme they use so no matter what you're fighting the same guy is behind it every time, but in my opinion that's playing it pretty safe and I think using a different villain next time it would fit their thematic idea would be a worthwhile risk, as long as they make the boss fights interesting and work to distinguish this villain. If Admiral Frog can do it, Mario can too. What was stopping them from using Bowser there?
 
Meh honestly villains in the Mario series aren't characters I invest that much. tbh changing Bowser to someone else is a bit like changing Eggman around, and you know how well that turns out.
 
Eggman getting hi-jacked was a legitimate twist at one point. Then they overused it to the point of Eggman himself being the final boss being a legitimate plot twist. Though another example would be the Tikis/Snowmads vs the Kremlings.
I wouldn't mind a Mario game where Bowser isn't the big bad, but at the same time (like McMadness said) there isn't much of a dire need to replace him. Also, his battle themes just keep getting better so I'm inclined to keep him longer for that reason alone. If anything, they should go back to making more off-the-wall spinoffs like Luigi's Mansion and Captain Toad to experiment with different antagonists.

As for "Not as much as they hate making new ones like the first 3", well that's just it. The series basically needed to be forced to use any mainline/established characters not named "Mario", "Luigi", "Peach" or "Bowser" and even then Kamek is the only one they've brought in that they used effectively. Compare Bowser Jr., The Koopalings, Toadsworth, etc. to their Mario & Luigi counterparts. Heck, compare Bowser in Sticker Star (the first game since 64 where Bowser was the villain) to Bowser in Dream Team or Paper Jam. Intelligent Systems really can't seem to use the Mario cast effectively with the exception of Peach (and I suppose Luigi) and it's embarrassing considering that AlphaDream is doing a better job even when they handicap themselves.
 
Fawful Claus said:
The way I see it, just because Bowser can do it doesn't mean a fresh face is such a bad idea every once in a while. And it could allow Bowser to focus more in a particular direction too, he has themes such as lava, spikes and whatnot, and yeah he can do other things but it would be cool to have different villains for different themes. Bowser for the traditional castles with lava, Wart for fantasy/dreamy themes, Fawful for technology and science (and to be a villain's villain like with BIS) etc. Tatanga and/or Shroobs for alien/space theme. Wario and Waluigi for evil doppelganger style villains, there's a lot to work with beyond just Bowser.

Sure they CAN keep twisting Bowser into every theme they use so no matter what you're fighting the same guy is behind it every time, but in my opinion that's playing it pretty safe and I think using a different villain next time it would fit their thematic idea would be a worthwhile risk, as long as they make the boss fights interesting and work to distinguish this villain. If Admiral Frog can do it, Mario can too. What was stopping them from using Bowser there?
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As I've said many times over the years. Bowser has at most 5-10 minutes of screen time in any platformer he's in. You would be essentially trading in a guy most people already like for somebody who is nowhere near as liked (or if it's someone new then they have no fan base to draw from to begin with)

You can't even argue that bringing in someone new would be some kind of innovation or not playing it safe as that person would only be there for about, 5 or 10 minutes. It's not any kind of major change, it's not going to lead to any potential gameplay concepts as Bowser is already adaptable to do anything they could ever possibly want and it's not exactly a change that is in high demand to begin with.

It is change for the sake of change. Not change for the sake of innovation.

Also Mario 2 is for all intents and purposes a romhack. All they did was swap the sprites of the family for Mario and co and altered the level select a bit. Other than that the game is basically unchanged from Doki Doki Panic.
 
Well that means the villain needs more screentime in general, not that they shouldn't care who it is. Make it optional if you want but I just want the context of the adventure to be more fleshed out than it usually is. If they don't want to do a different villain, they should still give Bowser more screentime to give you a better idea of the conflict that provides the reason you're playing. Of course a new villain wouldn't be that interesting if you're chasing them and only seeing them once in a blue moon. That goes whether it's Bowser or someone else.
 
i find it amusing that both versions of mario bros 2 can be considered as a "romhack" hahaha
 
Fawful Claus said:
Well that means the villain needs more screentime in general, not that they shouldn't care who it is. Make it optional if you want but I just want the context of the adventure to be more fleshed out than it usually is. If they don't want to do a different villain, they should still give Bowser more screentime to give you a better idea of the conflict that provides the reason you're playing. Of course a new villain wouldn't be that interesting if you're chasing them and only seeing them once in a blue moon. That goes whether it's Bowser or someone else.
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Yeah but they aren't going to do that since they know Mario is not a story driven series.

Nor would adding a story be any kind major change either since story driven games are a dime a dozen these days.


Baby Luigi said:
i find it amusing that both versions of mario bros 2 can be considered as a "romhack" hahaha
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Yet amusingly for entirely different reasons.
 
I am grateful that they left in pretty much a lot of things in Super Mario USA, because we have great stuff like Birdo and Shy Guys, and even some like Pokeys and Bob-ombs eventually became staples. Also the huge difference in pretty much anything means more material for the Super Mario Bros Super Show.

Thank you for reading.
 
Wart was the single worst thing about Mario USA. He's such a lame villain (his weakness is literally veggies), he creates too many plot holes when you think about the loyalty of his troop, and he turned the Bowser in the cartoons into a total trainwreck. With just a little more dev time they could have swapped him out for Bowser and never brought Wart into the Mario universe in the first place.

Mario USA is non-canon anyway so Wart doesn't exist in the Mario universe anyway, so I guess that means he isn't coming back. Good.
 
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Look, as much as I agree on the fact that Wart is lame and that there's nothing about him that could really make you like unless you like frogs, and that people wanting him back is a PERFECT example of wanting change for the sake of change, you gotta admit, if these guys made it alive and snuck into the Mario world, I don't see why can't Wart.
 
Because they actually brought something different to the table. Even in their debut. Wart didn't.
 
King Dedede said:
Wart was the single worst thing about Mario USA. He's such a lame villain (his weakness is literally veggies), he creates too many plot holes when you think about the loyalty of his troop, and he turned the Bowser in the cartoons into a total trainwreck. With just a little more dev time they could have swapped him out for Bowser and never brought Wart into the Mario universe in the first place.

Mario USA is non-canon anyway so Wart doesn't exist in the Mario universe anyway, so I guess that means he isn't coming back. Good.
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In fairness, I'm pretty sure Cartoon Bowser's appearance is based on his original sprite primarily. Same with Toadstool. They just never bothered to update the designs to match their artwork and later appearances.
After all, the Nintendo Comics System couldn't even get Wart's look right.
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He honestly looks more like King K. Rool.
 
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