Bowser needs his own game.

[Lee Chaolan]

You can have strength, but if you don't have the brains, your hardly a threat at all.

 

[Mcmadness]

But Bowser erhm, usually unknowingly, gives Mario the assistance he needs to win Mario in a fight

Every villain has to have a weakness, if he was strong and smart, then well he'd be unstoppable.

You can have strength, but if you don't have the brains, your hardly a threat at all.

He's not a complete moron, some of his best schemes are fairly intelligent. SM64, Dream Team, Galaxy and 3D World are just some examples.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

But Bowser erhm, usually unknowingly, gives Mario the assistance he needs to win Mario in a fight

Every villain has to have a weakness, if he was strong and smart, then well he'd be unstoppable.

You can have strength, but if you don't have the brains, your hardly a threat at all.

He's not a complete moron, some of his best schemes are fairly intelligent. SM64, Dream Team, Galaxy and 3D World are just some examples.

Then where's Mario's weakness? Everyone has a weakness, not just villains. Why can't Bowser find his instead do trying to hide his own with options that don't work?

How is he intelligent in SM64? He thinks Mario can't throw him, when he finds out that Mario can, still puts up bombs for no reason. In Dream Team he gains a partner that could potentially help him finally beat the bros., then ditches him. In Galaxy, uh, I've forgotten the boss battles in that game. I haven't seen Bowser in 3D World so I can't say much there.

 

[Magikrazy]

His weakness is he dies in one or two hits.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

His weakness is he dies in one or two hits.

And yet Bowser never seems to get that far. (Or when I play anyway)

 

[GalacticPetey]

But Bowser erhm, usually unknowingly, gives Mario the assistance he needs to win Mario in a fight

Every villain has to have a weakness, if he was strong and smart, then well he'd be unstoppable.

You can have strength, but if you don't have the brains, your hardly a threat at all.

He's not a complete moron, some of his best schemes are fairly intelligent. SM64, Dream Team, Galaxy and 3D World are just some examples.

Having brain and brawn would not make you unstoppable. It just makes you a more dangerous opponent. Bane is both incredibly strong and incredibly intelligent but he's not unbeatable.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

But Bowser erhm, usually unknowingly, gives Mario the assistance he needs to win Mario in a fight

Every villain has to have a weakness, if he was strong and smart, then well he'd be unstoppable.

You can have strength, but if you don't have the brains, your hardly a threat at all.

He's not a complete moron, some of his best schemes are fairly intelligent. SM64, Dream Team, Galaxy and 3D World are just some examples.

Having brain and brawn would not make you unstoppable. It just makes you a more dangerous opponent. Bane is both incredibly strong and incredibly intelligent but he's not unbeatable.

Thank you.

 

[Mcmadness]

But Bowser erhm, usually unknowingly, gives Mario the assistance he needs to win Mario in a fight

Every villain has to have a weakness, if he was strong and smart, then well he'd be unstoppable.

You can have strength, but if you don't have the brains, your hardly a threat at all.

He's not a complete moron, some of his best schemes are fairly intelligent. SM64, Dream Team, Galaxy and 3D World are just some examples.

Then where's Mario's weakness? Everyone has a weakness, not just villains. Why can't Bowser find his instead do trying to hide his own with options that don't work?

How is he intelligent in SM64? He thinks Mario can't throw him, when he finds out that Mario can, still puts up bombs for no reason. In Dream Team he gains a partner that could potentially help him finally beat the bros., then ditches him. In Galaxy, uh, I've forgotten the boss battles in that game. I haven't seen Bowser in 3D World so I can't say much there.

I have no idea what Mario's weakness is, one of the problems of him being such a flat character.

SM64, he steals all the stars to enhance his army and create a world of monsters to conquer the world. The bombs were probably put there by Peach since just before you fight him she put a sign there specifically detailing how to beat Bowser. It still technically was her castle so its safe to assume she had some power over it while trapped in the walls

Dream Team, manipulates Antasma to his benefit then ditches him when he gets the Dream stone, after when the bros confront him rather than fight he simply wishes them to be destroyed, but he's stopped by the deus ex machina good thoughts laser starlow and peach pulled out of their ass.

Galaxy, steals all the stars and grand stars of the comet observatory, destroys toad town and rips Peach's castle out of the ground and carries her off into space. The only reason Mario beat him in the end is because of Rosalina giving him the ability to spin attack, which was the only way Mario could fight back.

3D World, invades a foreign country unrelated to the mushroom kingdom, only reason Mario found out was because he was just a few seconds too slow in capturing their last leader.

And when he is fought at the end, he uses Mario's own power-ups against him.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

So Bowser isn't able to find out Mario's weakness? Come on.

It doesn't matter how, when or why Bowser tries taking over places, the point is, he's still not smart enough to beat a mere human. I remember galaxy now, and all Bowser did was jump into lava deliberately. He STILL can't fix flaws in his game, whether it's bombs that Mario throws him into, making a breakable bridge, jumping into lava, getting his hand stick in a planet. If you can't figure out your own flaws, you'll never beat someone in a fight. He may be smart when it comes to attack plans for capturing stuff, but when it comes to a fight, he's useless.

Peach and Starlow have had the good thoughts laser thing since Inside Story. Bowser could of teamed up with Antasma with the Dream Stone, beat the Bros., THEN ditch him once he has been fully made use of.

 

[yoshiking14x]

Bowser would be more challenging if he was away from lava.

Back to this topic, I say if he was on his own game he should fight numerous enemies at once just to make him even.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I have no idea what Mario's weakness is, one of the problems of him being such a flat character.

In Luigi's Mansion, Mario is shown to be gullible AND reckless. Believing the mansion AND going into the mansion before his brother arrived was a pretty poor move, although he was lucky Luigi didn't get captured as well.

 

[Mcmadness]

So Bowser isn't able to find out Mario's weakness? Come on.

It doesn't matter how, when or why Bowser tries taking over places, the point is, he's still not smart enough to beat a mere human. I remember galaxy now, and all Bowser did was jump into lava deliberately. He STILL can't fix flaws in his game, whether it's bombs that Mario throws him into, making a breakable bridge, jumping into lava, getting his hand stick in a planet. If you can't figure out your own flaws, you'll never beat someone in a fight. He may be smart when it comes to attack plans for capturing stuff, but when it comes to a fight, he's useless.

Peach and Starlow have had the good thoughts laser thing since Inside Story. Bowser could of teamed up with Antasma with the Dream Stone, beat the Bros., THEN ditch him once he has been fully made use of.

Really hard to find a weakness when the character in question isn't really written to have one. For the record NONE of the villains have found out Mario's weakness. At this point in time he really doesn't seem to have one other than his apparent gullibility but even that is never consistent.

Mario is no mere human, the series has gone to major lengths to emphasise the fact that the Mario bros are super humans who can do things most people can't. Again I emphasise, Mario on his own CAN'T TAKE BOWSER IN A FIGHT. Mario for the most part does not fight Bowser, and when he does he always has backup. Mario beats him by using his speed and agility. Mario's entire style revolves around using his enemy's moves against him. Its how he defeats pretty much all his enemies. Minus the obvious minor bosses and such he just jumps on. This is best demonstrated with the countering mechanic in the M&L series.
And I would also like to point out that Bowser has fought many people over the years, and really the only ones he loses to are the main cast members of the series, the rest he crushes.

Like I said for Dream Team, he didn't need Antasma anymore, with the Dream Stone he was set. He was defeated by a deus ex machina. There was NO forshadowing that laser, what happened in BiS wasn't even remotely the same, and even there that was also pulled from nowhere as well but it wasn't as bad as it was meant to explain the reason why the normally very physically strong Bowser is suddenly very weak.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

This isn't about how Mario beats him. It's about how Bowser isn't able to beat. Mario. And please stop relying on the same points that have already been debunked.

Good Thoughts Laser in Dream Team isn't remotely the same? Star Power + Wish Power = Good thoughts. They use the same thing, just like Bowser uses his inhale.

Mario using others attacks to counter attack is part of fighting. If Bowser can't see that and makes a path for Mario to counter, of course he's going to lose. So there isn't anything wrong with countering. It just means that Mario is good enough to beat someone who can't cover his tracks.

Ok, so in a straight fight against Brute strength, Bowser would win. But if he doesn't have the brains to notice that he has flaws that allow Mario to hurt him, then what kind of threat is he? So basically:

Bowser
> Has great Power, could crush anyone easily.
> Attacks can be dodged, but that's relatively normal.
> Opens up opportunities for enemies to attack, never fixes them.

Summary: Strong, but has a lack of fighting skill, leading him to be a less dangerous individual.

Does that comprehend with you?

 

[Mcmadness]

No, those points have not been debunked, in fact you've failed to understand the point I'm making when I bring them up, which is the fact that Mario would have lost YEARS ago if he didn't have the assistance he's needed many times to beat Bowser. That is why he's so dangerous, that is generally why whenever he appears the bros get worried. Its why the average people are scared just by the sight of him.

Bowser has used dozens of different fighting strategy's over the years. Mario is able to find holes in pretty much every villain's fighting style ever. He's just that good.

The laser was a deus ex machina, it was never forshadowed, never explained, and comes completely out of nowhere and saves them from an unwinnable situation. There is no way ANYONE could have prepared for that.

Yes, Bowser has flaws all villains have flaws. But he still has grand schemes that he almost succeeds with every time. Whenever he's beaten they generally treat it like major acomplishment because in-universe the bros have to work hard to gain their victory over him.

He's big, very powerful, has a massive army under his command, and is capable of thinking of effective plans to obtain power and control.

That is why he's been around for so long and why he'll continue to be the main villain of the franchise.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Argh, for the last time, Mario can defeat Bowser on his own. It's something you seem to forget every time you post. The schemes that are made up (and are never actually proven to originally be his thoughts) don't make him dangerous, they make the army dangerous. If he was dangerous, then everyone (aside from Toads that are scared of literally everything, even Goombas) would run on sight. Yeah, so what, he can pull off a plan on a kingdom with no army to defend whatsoever. Big deal.

 

[Mcmadness]

Except that he CAN'T. More often then not if Mario even so much as touches him he'll get hurt so he often has to use trickery or miss-direction. And like I said, when the 2 fight its implied that it was difficult and a hard earned victory. And please don't pull that ''we don't know if he came up with the schemes himself'' nonsense. Thats just reaching. And pretty much everyone does run on site not just toads, even his own minions are afraid of him.

Finally, if only about 3-4 people in the world can defeat you, and often then they still need help to do it, thats kind of a big deal.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Except that he CAN'T. More often then not if Mario even so much as touches him he'll get hurt so he often has to use trickery or miss-direction. And like I said, when the 2 fight its implied that it was difficult and a hard earned victory. And please don't pull that ''we don't know if he came up with the schemes himself'' nonsense. Thats just reaching. And pretty much everyone does run on site not just toads, even his own minions are afraid of him.

Finally, if only about 3-4 people in the world can defeat you, and often then they still need help to do it, thats kind of a big deal.

So says the guy who blames others for putting a switch for the bridge to fall down that allows Mario to beat him.

I believe "dangerous" and "scared" are different things, the only reason that Toads and minions are afraid of him is because of his imposing figure, otherwise he wouldn't be a scary to anyone who can see through that.

Mario has beaten Bowser without the use of different weapons frequently. Using trickery and miss-direction is still part of fighting, if not makes up half of it, otherwise Bowsers muscle would win out. But like I said before, brains is the other thing that's needed.

If you don't believe that Mario can't beat Bowser without help, the you're wrong. Superstar Saga had Mario easily beat Bowser, Galaxy 2 had Mario defeat him by himself (no spin required AT ALL) and Bowser can still be beaten without assistance in Sticker Star.

So, 3-4 people can beat Bowser? How about, well, Mario, Luigi, Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, Toad, Peach, Rosalina, Yoshi, Daisy, Wario, Waluigi, his own son, a Boo, a Dry Bones, a miniature version of himself, a Blooper, Donkey Kong and uh, does Ganondorf count?

 

[Mcmadness]

He crushes just about everything he goes up against, people being afraid of him is a well earned trait of his.

Superstar saga is the exception, when something is being judged you go by the average not the exceptions. Galaxy 2 Mario wouldn't have even been able to reach Bowser if he didn't have Luma providing him with the spin jump and during the final battle he only beat Bowser by using meteors that were just there for no explained reason. Sticker star flat out says that Mario couldn't win without Kersti's sacrifice since shes still gone after the fight is over no matter what you do.

Mario Party is non-canon, it exists in its own world, and even then most of the people you mentioned beating him needed assistance from something in the specific mini-game. Blue toad and yellow toad are only ever shown fighting alongside Mario, never alone. Rosalina has never fought Bowser, in 3D World she isn't unlocked till after he was defeated.


FYI Bowser has beaten people who are supposedly smarter than him.

 

[Shyghoul]

if you put Mario and Bowser in like a world of nothing with no kind of objects or anything else whatsoever, (or just put them in a plain field) Bowser would eventually land a hit and destroy Mario with his brute strength or flames. the thing is, Bowser and Mario live in a world where gimmicks and shit exist, thus it falls to them to use said stuff to their advantage. Mario is much more athletic so he can dodge attacks and use the environment to his advantage. ergo he's almost always much more of a threat than Bowser who's slow, and somewhat dumb.

it's sort of like a trickster vs. a great knight, yeah the great knight is way stronger but the trickster has insane dodging skills and as a result the great knight is almost incapable of harming the trickster, thus the trickster has a higher chance of winning out in the end.

 

[Magikrazy]

Also, it's a game and Bowser is supposed to lose.

 

[Shyghoul]

that too

 

[Mcmadness]

Well I understand all that, all I'm ultimately saying is I think he's a better villain than people give him credit for.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

He's certainly a better villain than most. He probably does deserve more credit for being the most iconic and stuff.

 

[Mcmadness]

That and he has a cool design

 

[Driftmaster130]

To be honest. I don't really like Yoshi's Wooly World. JK I ACTUALLY HATE IT AND THE MARIO BOARDS TOO